Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby RoyalDude » Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:44 pm

Mondi wrote:
Yeah, I am overstating the fact that Kadri a plug. But for every Kassian, who might get his shit together with respect to fitness, there is an O'Brien or Wellwood out there.

I just don't see the need for another small forward that doesn't really hit.


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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby RoyalDude » Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:45 pm

Uncle dans leg wrote:Kadri reminds me of Grabner and making him the centre piece of a Luongo trade isn't what I hope we get back.


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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby Fred » Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:08 pm

I guess it's case of what the market will bear, but when it comes to a trade there's another GM on the other end of the telephone. I can't imagine BB giving up Gardner.. would you if you're Leafs GM. Plus I think the average age of the Canucks defense means they're going to be a round for at least another 5 years and they have some bright prospects coming alond Tanev, Connauton, and maybe McNally and certainly Corrado. On the other hand our centres are Henrik and Kesler one is getting on in years and the other is breaking down.To me it's Kadri/Colbourne assuming it is the Leafs Luongo is heading for. We don't have a ligitamate skilled centre in the pipe. Schroeder or Labate are the most likely

We'll get a better look at Schroeder tonight
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby RoyalDude » Sat Oct 20, 2012 6:52 pm

Fred wrote:I guess it's case of what the market will bear, but when it comes to a trade there's another GM on the other end of the telephone. I can't imagine BB giving up Gardner.. would you if you're Leafs GM. Plus I think the average age of the Canucks defense means they're going to be a round for at least another 5 years and they have some bright prospects coming alond Tanev, Connauton, and maybe McNally and certainly Corrado. On the other hand our centres are Henrik and Kesler one is getting on in years and the other is breaking down.To me it's Kadri/Colbourne assuming it is the Leafs Luongo is heading for. We don't have a ligitamate skilled centre in the pipe. Schroeder or Labate are the most likely

We'll get a better look at Schroeder tonight


Geez Fred if you would bankroll on the likes of Kadri and Colbourne as your replacements for Kesler and Sedin down the line then you my man have really lost it. Why are you dumbing down your expectations on what this team deserves in return for Luongo. I'm totally on board with Gillis in that they won't give him away, and getting the likes of Kadri and Colbourne in return for Luongo is giving Luongo away.

As for saying that we are somehow deep and young on defense, is horse shite. Edler and Garrison both have nagging long term injuries that may never go away. Garrison has come out and said that he has been battling a soft tissue sports hernia since as far as he can remember. Edler's back problems may be terminal.

The Leafs are trying to do the same thing they did to get Phaneuf and Aulie out of Calgary by offering up a big package of middling type players as if Gillis will be wow'd the amount coming his way like Calgary was. It's Quality not Quantity my friend, that is unless you desire a team full of average players like in Calgary. Knowing Gillis though, I would not be surprised if he got sucked into such a deal cause he seems to be making the same mistakes as Calgary have been making for the last 10 years to stay competitive and too build around Iginla.

GILLIS NEEDS TO GET A STAR POTENTIAL PLAYER IN RETURN FOR LUONGO. Kadri, Bozak, Colbourne are not those players people. Luongo is a star goalie. Giving him up for average players with average potential is a complete shit deal for this organization moving forward. I like that Gillis is building the future with 'size' and 'heart' in my mind. Gaunce, Kassian and Jensen all fit this bill, Kadri doesn't and Colbourne is a lightweight in a big body. If you like dumb players like Booth, then you may like Kadri. Just a tiny version of Booth.
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby dbr » Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:04 pm

Mondi wrote:As for those defensive prospects...forget it. Brain Burke is not known for giving up big North American blue chip defensemen. Particularly for mentally fragile aging number one goalies.


He traded Bryan McCabe and he traded Adrian Aucoin for Dan Cloutier.
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby FAN » Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:14 pm

Potatoe1 wrote:Not a lot of room on the blue line tbh.

That isnt to say I wouldnt love a quality young blue liner like Gardner, but I don't think it's any type of particular need that would require Gillis to reject forward prospects in a Luongo deal.

But Gardiner needn't be in the top 4 on this team. He can be the team's #5 for at least a couple more years and get PP time. For all of Gardiner's talents and fine rookie season, he did at times play like a rookie and would do fine with more seasoning and playing behind some good experienced defenders. By the time Gardiner really comes into his own, the team will need to look to the future and be looking to replace guys like Bieksa and Hamhuis.


Potatoe1 wrote:Coulbourne is a legit bottom 6 prospect who could perhaps move up in case of injury

I think it's quite the opposite. Colborne is a legit top 6 prospect who has the size to play a bottom 6 role and it's not semantics :roll: because defense and physical play has been Colborne's biggest weaknesses, not to mention that Colborne is a relatively poor bodychecker for his size. Colborne is the type to either be a top 6 player or be a tweener (not good enough for the top 6 and not effective enough to make it as a 3rd liner).
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby Todd Bersnoozi » Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:16 am

The thing is, I'm not sure we can get a lot for Luongo, mainly because of his salary and his no trade clause. If we can get a couple of average prospects, I'd be happy. There really isn't much of a market for Luongo right now, so it's really hard to move him. GMs interested in him need to ask a few key questions:

1) Do we really need him?
2) Can we take on his salary?
3) Would he even be willing to come here?

There's only a handful teams that fit this bill, like toronto, florida, tampa and maybe a couple of others. It's really hard to get a bidding war when there's not a lot of teams interested in your player. That's why MG is holding on to Lou and hoping that when the new CBA is hammered out and teams start getting desperate when games are played, people would be more willing to pay a bigger price for Lou. The way I see it, anyone willing to take Loungo on would be doing us a favour, so I can't see a bluechip prospect coming back our way. If we're lucky, maybe a prospect and a 1st round draft pick.



RoyalDude wrote:GILLIS NEEDS TO GET A STAR POTENTIAL PLAYER IN RETURN FOR LUONGO. Kadri, Bozak, Colbourne are not those players people. Luongo is a star goalie. Giving him up for average players with average potential is a complete shit deal for this organization moving forward.
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby ukcanuck » Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:07 am

Todd Bersnoozi wrote:The thing is, I'm not sure we can get a lot for Luongo, mainly because of his salary and his no trade clause. If we can get a couple of average prospects, I'd be happy. There really isn't much of a market for Luongo right now, so it's really hard to move him. GMs interested in him need to ask a few key questions:

1) Do we really need him?
2) Can we take on his salary?
3) Would he even be willing to come here?

There's only a handful teams that fit this bill, like toronto, florida, tampa and maybe a couple of others. It's really hard to get a bidding war when there's not a lot of teams interested in your player. That's why MG is holding on to Lou and hoping that when the new CBA is hammered out and teams start getting desperate when games are played, people would be more willing to pay a bigger price for Lou. The way I see it, anyone willing to take Loungo on would be doing us a favour, so I can't see a bluechip prospect coming back our way. If we're lucky, maybe a prospect and a 1st round draft pick.



RoyalDude wrote:GILLIS NEEDS TO GET A STAR POTENTIAL PLAYER IN RETURN FOR LUONGO. Kadri, Bozak, Colbourne are not those players people. Luongo is a star goalie. Giving him up for average players with average potential is a complete shit deal for this organization moving forward.

yeah well then we should keep him and have him as our back up until the trade deadline and see what he's worth then.
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby Fred » Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:20 am

RoyalDude wrote:[GILLIS NEEDS TO GET A STAR POTENTIAL PLAYER IN RETURN FOR LUONGO. Kadri, Bozak, Colbourne are not those players people. Luongo is a star goalie.


First off despite what ever you or I think of Luongo he has the rap that he falls apart in the big games. He's done that here and almost did it in the Olympics. Outside of Vcr most have little respect for Luongo. IF you want a STAR player then don't do any deal with TO because they don't have what could be described as a STAR player. The best you can do is take a potential player and develop him yourself...that's all TO has to offer.

I like Tanev and Corrado and from what I watched last night, Connauton looked a lot better than the Connauton of the past. McNally is continually getting great reports by people who know (unlike u and me LOL )... as does Labate I might mention. Guance a reputed two way player has the worse +/- on his Bellville team. Jensen seems to be a good propspect and Kassian may have turned the corner.

Any one see the Mallet fight last night...wow

Did any one notice Sauve ?
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby Mondi » Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:48 am

dbr wrote:
Mondi wrote:As for those defensive prospects...forget it. Brain Burke is not known for giving up big North American blue chip defensemen. Particularly for mentally fragile aging number one goalies.


He traded Bryan McCabe and he traded Adrian Aucoin for Dan Cloutier.


Aucoin wasn't a prospect. Nor was McCabe really, but as you know, McCabe was traded for a Sedin. And Cloutier was not yet known to be a mentally fragile goaltender. Nor was he aging when he was acquired.
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby RoyalDude » Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:09 am

Fred wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:[GILLIS NEEDS TO GET A STAR POTENTIAL PLAYER IN RETURN FOR LUONGO. Kadri, Bozak, Colbourne are not those players people. Luongo is a star goalie.


First off despite what ever you or I think of Luongo he has the rap that he falls apart in the big games. He's done that here and almost did it in the Olympics. Outside of Vcr most have little respect for Luongo. IF you want a STAR player then don't do any deal with TO because they don't have what could be described as a STAR player. The best you can do is take a potential player and develop him yourself...that's all TO has to offer.

I like Tanev and Corrado and from what I watched last night, Connauton looked a lot better than the Connauton of the past. McNally is continually getting great reports by people who know (unlike u and me LOL )... as does Labate I might mention. Guance a reputed two way player has the worse +/- on his Bellville team. Jensen seems to be a good propspect and Kassian may have turned the corner.

Any one see the Mallet fight last night...wow

Did any one notice Sauve ?


Dude we are years away from getting a good idea of what kind of players Corrado and McNally will be at the pro level. Why even talk about them. Connauton did not impress me last night, as well as Tanev. After our top 4, our defense is as thin as a Hollywood Lolipop. Factor in these long term nagging injuries to Garrison and Edler I see a big fucking problem on Defense. We got way more 'quality' depth at youth in the forward department than we do on Defense, ie Kassian, Jensen, Gaunce, Mallete, Schroeder. The current Canuck starting line-up is the lesser concern of the two positions between defense and forward.

So, I guess then you don't mind doing what Calgary did in return for Phaneuf and Aulie. Get a bunch of middling, meh type players in return? Be wow'd by quantity rather than quality. Trust me dude, Kadri and Colbourne will not amount to a hill of beans for this organization. They are not AV type players, they are not Canuck type players and do not suit the make up of this team going forward. You are a salesmans dream come true Fred, if you would cave in to such a deal. It is in Gillis best interests to wait til the trade deadline to trade Luongo. His stock will be at it's highest at that time, teams positioning for the playoffs will have a better idea of what there goaltending situation is like, I betchya one of those teams will be Tampa, just got a feeling that Yzerman's Lindback experiment is gonna fail him. If Bryzgalov continues to shit the the bed, Bold move Holmgren may get get bold on Luongo. If it is crumbs teams are offering us right now, then I'm with Gillis, be patient and keep him til the deadline.

If Washington can get a very good potentially high lottery pick from Colorado for fucking Varlamov and Montreal can squeeze the impressive Eller for Halak out of St. Louis I do not see why we can't get star potential in return for Lou. Halak and Varlamov are nowhere near the calibre Lou is my friend.
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby Fred » Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:40 am

RoyalDude wrote:[
Dude we are years away from getting a good idea of what kind of players Corrado and McNally will be at the pro level. Why even talk about them. Connauton did not impress me last night, as well as Tanev. After our top 4, our defense is as thin as a Hollywood Lolipop. Factor in these long term nagging injuries to Garrison and Edler I see a big fucking problem on Defense. We got way more 'quality' depth at youth in the forward department than we do on Defense, ie Kassian, Jensen, Gaunce, Mallete, Schroeder. The current Canuck starting line-up is the lesser concern of the two positions between defense and forward.

So, I guess then you don't mind doing what Calgary did in return for Phaneuf and Aulie. Get a bunch of middling, meh type players in return? Be wow'd by quantity rather than quality. Trust me dude, Kadri and Colbourne will not amount to a hill of beans for this organization. They are not AV type players, they are not Canuck type players and do not suit the make up of this team going forward. You are a salesmans dream come true Fred, if you would cave in to such a deal. It is in Gillis best interests to wait til the trade deadline to trade Luongo. His stock will be at it's highest at that time, teams positioning for the playoffs will have a better idea of what there goaltending situation is like, I betchya one of those teams will be Tampa, just got a feeling that Yzerman's Lindback experiment is gonna fail him. If Bryzgalov continues to shit the the bed, Bold move Holmgren may get get bold on Luongo. If it is crumbs teams are offering us right now, then I'm with Gillis, be patient and keep him til the deadline.

If Washington can get a very good potentially high lottery pick from Colorado for fucking Varlamov and Montreal can squeeze the impressive Eller for Halak out of St. Louis I do not see why we can't get star potential in return for Lou. Halak and Varlamov are nowhere near the calibre Lou is my friend.



Corrado et al, hey any idiot can wait to see how a player turns out 10 years down the road and then heap praise on them....any idiot. The trick is to recognize the potential before they reach that stage such as Tanev & Burows. The catch is scouting players and picking them up before they reach that veteran status. If you're going to make a deal with TO which has been reported to have been concluded by a couple of reliable sources it's no good looking for the players you yearn for..... already made stars. A complete waste of time why....because TO has no star quality players period. A first round pick if Luongo goes to TO is not that attractive assuming Luo gets them into the play-offs, it'll be a mid to late round pick. If you're given Lemons make lemon juice don't waste you brain cels on dreams that aren't achievable.

Bryzgalov by the way who had a Sv % of 0.92 when he was with Phx and rated as a quality goalie was traded by Phoenix Coyotes traded Ilya Bryzgalov to the Philadelphia Flyers for Matt Clackson, a third-round draft pick in 2012 and a conditional draft pick. Which by the way was better than Luongo SV% with the 'Nucks ( playing for a better team )

I think Vcr fans way over rate the value of Luongo, he's a good golaie that crumbles in the big games...what are you going to get for that.... Presidents Trophy but no SC
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby RoyalDude » Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:29 am

Fred wrote:
Corrado et al, hey any idiot can wait to see how a player turns out 10 years down the road and then heap praise on them....any idiot. The trick is to recognize the potential before they reach that stage such as Tanev & Burows. The catch is scouting players and picking them up before they reach that veteran status. If you're going to make a deal with TO which has been reported to have been concluded by a couple of reliable sources it's no good looking for the players you yearn for..... already made stars.



So just settle for crumbs like Kadri and Colbourne??? You throw a real hard bargain there Fred.

Trust me, Kadri's and Colbourne's potential, which it ain't much, is easier to guage than Corrado's and McNally's whose NHL potentials are a complete mystery at this juncture.

As for Connauton, Corrado and McNally, these 3 players do not give cred to the depth of our defense at the momment. Far from it.

The bottom line, no Gardiner, no 1st round pick - no deal with Toronto. I am of the belief that Gardiner is very achievable in a Lou trade. I'd be happy with him as the centre piece and a first round pick for the 2013 draft. Having two first round picks in the 2013 draft, a good one, gives us great opportunities to move up the draft.
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby Mondi » Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:40 am

RD,

As much as I like your stance on this issue of holding out for something good...the idea that we will collect a near .5 ppg defenseman and a first round pick for a guy whose never given up 7 or 8 goals in an NHL game, except for a playoff game, is a stretch.

I'm ready for a decent return (i.e. one of the above-named assets) and for the Luongo circus to roll out of town.

Luongo is just a notch or two above Booth when it comes to brainpower, so I'll be happy to see an articulate, less egotistical and younger version take the reigns without having to deal with Luongo talk 24/7 when he gets an important start. Whatever we get in return is gravy.
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:44 am

Uhh Fred, Luongo was just fine in the Olympics. Someone was wearing beer goggles throughout the tournament .

The trade between Philly and Phoenix for Bryzgalov has NO bearing on what the deal for Luongo might bring. Bryzgalov was a couple days away from being a UFA so obviously the return was going to be fuck all.

I'm with the dude here. Unless it's one of Gardiner or Rielly as the centrepiece Burke can fuck his hat.

Colborne is a big fucking marshmellow and plays like he's the size of Cliff Ronning. I would rather have Tyler Biggs.

Kadri has some talent but he is also a bit of a nutjob.......no thanks AV will chew him up and spit him out.

Toronto has a lot of fluff to offer up. Vancouver doesn't need more fluff.
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