potato 1 wrote: You certainly seem angry about something.....
gee would it have something to do with the unwarranted smugness, I wonder?
Or maybe the dishonest tactics your employing to try to appear superior?
let's review a little shall we?
I said in the post you responded to:
UKcanuck wrote: Anyway, I thought you asked philosophically how anyone can support the players, and since I've been pretty vocal about it, I thought I would be philosophical about it in kind. As for being precise about estimates, nobody can be precise, because we can't be precise about all the numbers.
But this is what you choose to focus on:
UKcanuck wrote: the numbers they release to the PA and the rest of us, academics and laymen alike are the numbers they choose to release and you can bet your ass, seriously, the real numbers are a closely guarded secret.
you ignore that I prefaced my statements saying I was being philosophical and not trying to be specific
And then you jump on me wanting specific examples knowing full well that is beyond the scope of my claims or argument and this forum altogether.
potato1 wrote: Ok so explain the diference between the rights of the PA and the rights of the IRS with regard to their ability to audit NHL teams?
While you are at it explain how a company with 100 to 150 mill in revenue is able to hide signifigant pourtions of it and still evade both the tax man and the PA's auditors (who are likely to be top notch BTW)
Despite the fact that you yourself recently cant or won't do it yourself, I give you an example and tactic that we both know is in fact being argued by the NHL and the PA in the press- the different percentages based on DIFFERENT accountings by both sides...or in other words the league having different versions of HRR which Shows that the PA does not accept the leagues numbers which in turn points to the suspicion that the NHL is not forthcoming with all of their information. Which was all I was alluding to in the first place.
potato 1 wrote:The PA has the right to hire their own accounting firm to go through the books, records, ledgers, etc at any time (15 teams a year). They can double check deposits, look at invoices, double check ticket revenue, view local cable deals, hell they can probably go down and double check the cash till statements at GM place.
More than anything what's pissing me off about the whole thing is that from the quote above, clearly you arguing something different than I am and while your sitting there all happy with yourself. you're totally and completely missing the point yet again and still...
It makes me want to repeat or rephrase my point but you'll probably only just pick on some red herring, take it out of context and twist it to your advantage...
However, in the interest of fair play I shall try again...
In my humble opinion, it's to one's competitive advantage to hold ones cards as close to vest as possible in business.
When the owners and players agreed to a salary cap they linked the cap to revenue.
when they did so, they must have negotiated what constitutes hockey related revenue, I am pretty sure (because it's logical) that the owners did not volunteer any information to the players and their lawyers other than what was asked for. If the players missed it or an argument could be made against being included, these professional businessmen who are experts at the game of getting rich and winning at it are going to keep it a closely guarded secret.
(Just like the taxman does not volunteer loopholes they know exist. Oh they have to tell you if you ask, but if you make a mistake and pay more than you have to because you didn't know about a paragraph in the tax law, they aren't going to voluntarily educate you. )
The grey area between what is revenue and what is income from other sources including ways to put off expenses for another day... which the owners and their lawyers search for full time, as they rightly should, means that the PA will always be catching up and never in a position of strength... It is this that makes me wonder about the owners position.
I don't trust the owners when they claim poverty because I don't know what the term means to them.
In corporate speak losing money means not making as much profit as expected. It's another language altogether than the one called English.
Sure the players lawyers can go through every sheet of paper and till tape 15 times a year, whatever, that's all fine and dandy. But they will never find what is not there.