Potatoe1 wrote: Ok so explain how the owners can hide revenue from the PA's auditors.
we have already had this argument about just what counts as revenue.
The PA can count receipts all day but won't find a penny of revenue that's not HRR revenue...
Before you jump on the PA agreed to what's HRR bandwagon, that was a forced agreement and is still contested all over the media.
common sense has got to tell you the owners are not going to volunteer any information that hurts their cause.
That's one way to "hide" revenue...it's simply not revenue and you have to agree because you've argued exactly that.
It's clear you dont understand what an "audit" means so I will explain...
You can make your argument without lowering to this.
The PA has the right to hire their own accounting firm to go through the books, records, ledgers, etc at any time (15 teams a year). They can double check deposits, look at invoices, double check ticket revenue, view local cable deals, hell they can probably go down and double check the cash till statements at GM place.
It would be incredibly difficult for the owners to hide revenues of any significance in the current system.
As I said above and I don't need you to tell me that the PA has audit rights, nearly every time the PA has a press conference they have argued they don't agree with the league's numbers, doesn't take a genius to figure out that they are looking at books given to them by the league and it's also pretty simple to deduce that there is some sort of agreement between them in the interest of getting a deal done.
Would the league open themselves up to a lawsuit by intentionally lying to the PA auditors, no one can say that. But the consequences for doing so is not the same as lying to the taxman is it?
How many lawsuits are going on at anyone time on wall street, can you tell me?
If you think otherwise then explain how they do it?[/quote]
I would counter that the "system" is a lot like the iron clad salary cap system that provided the "cost certainty" they got in the last CBA...not so certain.
The PA has every right to audit any books the NHL keeps regarding the business they say they are doing but they do not have to show anyone the books they show to the taxman.
How do you know this? Do you have a link or are you just speculating here?
Do I need a link? you are a business man, who else do you show your books too? if your employees asked to see your tax returns would you show them? How about you show me the law that counteracts your right to privacy?
And if you can't see that it's easier to hide one truth inside another truth I can't help you understand what I'm talking about.
I'm not sure "you" even understand what you are talking about?
You didn't seem to know that the NHLPA had audit rights (until I told you), and you don't seem to know what an "audit" actually means (until I told you). Yet you are incredibly quick you accuse the owners of deceit despite having no idea how they are being deceptive.
It's clear you are way out of your depth on the accounting / business / finance side of this discussion, and I would encourage you to stick to the areas you understand.
This all just rhetoric...it doesn't strengthen your argument...
I forget what is your argument? That I am
Stupid ? Lol
I thought that what I had originally said was it's easy to point out the players pay as that is public knowledge, but no one really knows what the owners make.
pot wrote: You are quick to throw out very heavy allegations (Rocky Wirtz hides his money in the Caymans?) despite not having a strong grasp of what it is you are talking about.
Heavy allegations? what's the crime I am accusing Wirtz et al? banking off shore?
If they don't it must be the local fishermen who've got all those accounts ...
I would encourage you to stop doing this as it undermines some of the decent arguments that you make.
You know what this a goddamn hockey message board, it's all speculation by definition.
You don't know what I do for a living and only know what you tell me about yourself and for god's sake we cite Internet links to support out arguments. How about we lighten up a little