Where Will They Play?

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Re: Where Will They Play?

Postby Boston Canucker » Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:10 am

Blob Mckenzie wrote:Yes good for them. I can really get behind a guy who was making 3-4.....5 million a season here . Especially when he goes over to Europe and takes away another cat's job who was supporting his family on a 100K a year contract. Go for it boys and don't worry about fucking some poor prick in the ass who is just trying to make a decent living for his family.


That's a fraudulent argument. When Jeff Tambellini goes to Europe b/c NHL says we don't want you you don't think he takes the job of some "cat" who makes less than he does, and thus probably needs it more? Of course he does, and Tamby, go for it I say. It's about who is the best player in the best league available for your talent, no one has a job reserved for them, unless you're the owner's son, like with the Rangers, Hawks, and Bruins, and then you're all set, no one need apply, daddy is leaving me the team. But for a player, you earn it where you can earn it. Bettman/NHL have decided the players aren't allowed to earn it right now - as is their right - okay, fine, so, off the players go, as they should.

If the lockout is settled in a few months, things will revert back, said "cat" will get a shot back with the team (or who knows, maybe he went to another league and took a different cat's job...the cad!), or the lockout will last all year and as leagues like the KHL get stronger and stronger, who knows, maybe they will become a WHA like form of competition for the far too comfortable NHL.(that might not be the worst thing, a little more league to league competition, for the NHL to maintain highest level of product etc) And if so, if those NHLer's make the KHL etc more legit maybe it'll create more franchises in those leagues, thus more jobs...and then, hey, the "cat's" in the bag!
Last edited by Boston Canucker on Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Where Will They Play?

Postby ukcanuck » Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:26 am

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Boston Canucker wrote:It is the one point of leverage nhl players have that players in the other major north am sports don't have, other legit places to play for decent pay. I hope the players take full advantage, good for them...NHL decides they won't fulfill agreed contracts, go elsewhere, no problem with that at all...it's their profession, they should do what they can to do the best they can while they are able to play at this high a level....go for it boys.


Yes good for them. I can really get behind a guy who was making 3-4.....5 million a season here . Especially when he goes over to Europe and takes away another cat's job who was supporting his family on a 100K a year contract. Go for it boys and don't worry about fucking some poor prick in the ass who is just trying to make a decent living for his family.


Aren't you kind of missing the point that they are locked out here and cannot ply their trade here unless they capitulate ...again, which common sense dictates that if they do capitulate they will only be continuing to cut their own throat for every negotiation hence forth?

As for those poor pricks in Europe, they aren't being screwed over, they are just sinking or swimming according to the sacred law of survival of the fittest..you know that law that the NHL owners have got fabulously wealthy enough in our economy to enjoy the privilege of owning major league hockey teams over. The same law they want to suspend so that they can continue to enjoy their lofty status even when they run it into the ground?

if some one is winning, some one is losing... why tears for one and not another?
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Re: Where Will They Play?

Postby Per » Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:25 am

Fred wrote:+1

Not only that, you have to wonder why are we paying these guys so much when the same guys are willing to risk their careers playing for 1/100th of the money

It's called "for the love of the game".

Players want to play, and they want to play against the best possible opposition for the best possible play.
Since the B*ttman people have kicked them out, the players need to look elsewhere.

Most Russians go play in Russia, Czechs in the Czech Rep, Scandinavians in Scandinavia.

A lot of these players go play for the team that they grew up playing for, that learnt them the tricks of the trade.
Thus they give something back to the community that raised them.

But I can see that those siding with the owners don't understand.... they think it's all about money. :roll:
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Re: Where Will They Play?

Postby Per » Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:37 am

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Boston Canucker wrote:It is the one point of leverage nhl players have that players in the other major north am sports don't have, other legit places to play for decent pay. I hope the players take full advantage, good for them...NHL decides they won't fulfill agreed contracts, go elsewhere, no problem with that at all...it's their profession, they should do what they can to do the best they can while they are able to play at this high a level....go for it boys.


Yes good for them. I can really get behind a guy who was making 3-4.....5 million a season here . Especially when he goes over to Europe and takes away another cat's job who was supporting his family on a 100K a year contract. Go for it boys and don't worry about fucking some poor prick in the ass who is just trying to make a decent living for his family.


Right.... So, if your boss decided to kick you out, I guess you would never consider taking another job out of fear it might leave someone else unemployed? :eh:

If you haven't noticed, it's not that the players refuse to play, it's that the owners won't let them.

Hell yeah I'd go play somewhere else till teh conflict was resolved if it were me.
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Re: Where Will They Play?

Postby Jovocop » Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:00 am

Per wrote:
Fred wrote:+1

Not only that, you have to wonder why are we paying these guys so much when the same guys are willing to risk their careers playing for 1/100th of the money

It's called "for the love of the game".

Players want to play, and they want to play against the best possible opposition for the best possible play.
Since the B*ttman people have kicked them out, the players need to look elsewhere.

Most Russians go play in Russia, Czechs in the Czech Rep, Scandinavians in Scandinavia.

A lot of these players go play for the team that they grew up playing for, that learnt them the tricks of the trade.
Thus they give something back to the community that raised them.

But I can see that those siding with the owners don't understand.... they think it's all about money. :roll:


Not every player cares about the game as much as money, Radulov and Yashin came to mind.

Almost all the NHL owners are successful businessmen. Some of them care about winning; however, their main goal is to make money.
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Re: Where Will They Play?

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:13 am

Per wrote:
Right.... So, if your boss decided to kick you out, I guess you would never consider taking another job out of fear it might leave someone else unemployed? :eh:

If you haven't noticed, it's not that the players refuse to play, it's that the owners won't let them.

Hell yeah I'd go play somewhere else till teh conflict was resolved if it were me.



If I was sitting on millions of dollars, i think i could afford to take a breather from work for a couple months and just work out and stay in shape. If I didn't have a ton of money I may consider taking a job away from someone who needs it a hell of a lot more than me. But I am not a greedy person, so there's that.

I have noticed that the owners locked the players out, but thanks for reminding me. :)
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Re: Where Will They Play?

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:19 am

Per wrote:
But I can see that those siding with the owners don't understand.... they think it's all about money. :roll:



Yes it's just the people siding with the owners that don't understand.


Those siding with the players are very plugged into the whole thing. :roll:


I personally am in the middle and have stayed the hell out of most talk regarding the lockout. I really couldn't give a fuck about rich players and rich owners. Players like Rick Nash and Joe Thornton just went down a couple notches in my book.
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Re: Where Will They Play?

Postby ukcanuck » Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:21 am

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Per wrote:
But I can see that those siding with the owners don't understand.... they think it's all about money. :roll:



Yes it's just the people siding with the owners that don't understand.


Those siding with the players are very plugged into the whole thing. :roll:


I personally am in the middle and have stayed the hell out of most talk regarding the lockout. I really couldn't give a fuck about rich players and rich owners. Players like Rick Nash and Joe Thornton just went down a couple notches in my book.

lol I thought revoltin Joe already was at rock bottom...
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Re: Where Will They Play?

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:49 am

ukcanuck wrote:
Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Per wrote:
But I can see that those siding with the owners don't understand.... they think it's all about money. :roll:



Yes it's just the people siding with the owners that don't understand.


Those siding with the players are very plugged into the whole thing. :roll:


I personally am in the middle and have stayed the hell out of most talk regarding the lockout. I really couldn't give a fuck about rich players and rich owners. Players like Rick Nash and Joe Thornton just went down a couple notches in my book.

lol I thought revoltin Joe already was at rock bottom...


Well he is a bit of a no show..... now he's a greedy asshole too.
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Re: Where Will They Play?

Postby tantalum » Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:03 am

Per Per Per

If it hasn't been obvious since day 1 the PA has had no interest in stopping this work stoppage. They believe they hold some leverage if games are missed (time will tell if they have misread that). But their actions have spoken...they didn't want to begin negotiations until the summer despite being requested to do so. They took weeks and weeks and weeks to actually come to the table and then took even more time constructing their own offer (of guaranteed raise) and have no desire to negotiate within the current framework. So be it. They can do that even if I can't understand why. The owners as has been mentioned ad nauseum by now have no choice but to lock the players out thanks to the current head of the PA.

But think about it...why does a Thornton or Spezza need to go play what amounts to a hard game of shinny for a few bucks? take up a roster spot for a guy that needs the money and doesn't have millions in the bank. Now think about it further...in a few weeks time some 12th/13th forwards and 7th D-men are going to start missing paycheques. These are guys who may not have more than a year or two (if that) of making big money (big money being 500-750k). Last lockout something like 180 players never played another NHL game (or made it a full season I can't remember which). So they are getting hit hard, watching their only big money earning year go bye bye and to make matters worse their brothers in arms are taking roster spots in leagues that they might have been able to earn some good cash in! I'm sure Aaron Volpatti is ecstatic Thornton, nash and Spezza are going to go play in Switzerland or wherever they are going decreasing his options of steady paycheque even more. It's a selfish move on the part of many of these bigger money players but that is part and parcel of what they are. It's also why it's extremely hard to keep a 700 member player union from splintering. If this goes on too long SOMEONE will play the role of Linden and look to get a back channel deal going. I honestly expect it to happen sooner this time as they weren't fast enough last time.
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Re: Where Will They Play?

Postby Strangelove » Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:58 am

Per wrote:
Fred wrote:you have to wonder why are we paying these guys so much when the same guys are willing to risk their careers playing for 1/100th of the money

It's called "for the love of the game".

Players want to play, and they want to play against the best possible opposition for the best possible play.
Since the B*ttman people have kicked them out, the players need to look elsewhere.


If the players wanted to play, they wouldn't have brought in Donald Antichrist Fehr.

How much do you think that cunt "loves the game" hmm?

Per wrote:But I can see that those siding with the owners don't understand.... they think it's all about money. :roll:


Wake up, it's "all about the money" for BOTH sides!

Hopefully meanwhile, the players continue to practice and play here or there

... and the owners continue with other business.

There are no 'good guys' or 'bad guys' in this battle.

Well one could argue the fans are being held hostage by the terrorist players and the pwners are negotiating for our release. :mex:
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Re: Where Will They Play?

Postby ukcanuck » Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:29 pm

Strangelove wrote:
Wake up, it's "all about the money" for BOTH sides!


http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/story/2012/09/20/sp-nhl-lockout-game.html?cmp=rss
...So here we are with yet another NHL lockout. How is it going to end? When is it going to end? And most importantly, who is going to win? The NHL has demanded another 25 per cent cut in players’ salaries. The players say no way, not again. On the surface this is all about money. But is it really? Do the owners actually really “need” more money? Can the players actually live well with less?

Instead, money has now been mistaken for principle. Each revenue percentage point represents something more in ego, power, face-saving, winning or losing. True to their natural tendencies, the NHL and the NHLPA are treating this negotiation like a game, with offence and defence struggling to dominate. They are only too happy to play to — and for — an encouraging cast of sports experts who also see it as a game. The observers are indeed affecting the outcome.

How and when will it end? The when is hard to predict, but it will happen at the time when the parties each recognize they are hurting themselves. But this probably won't be for months. The how is easier to answer, because it’s the truth about how most deals get done. Any real progress will happen behind closed doors. Both sides will then be able to make the compromises necessary to bridge the gap. In that process both sides will be able to focus on what they really need, rather than what they want. That’s when the deal gets done.

So the real negotiating will take place in private. But unlike other collective agreements, this deal will be publicly examined and scrutinized, with journalists and analysts rushing to declare a winner. Both sides know this, and are determined not to lose. That's the observer effect at play. So I don't expect the normal give-and-take at the bargaining table. Because every single dollar, gained or lost, represents much more than just money.


if its about money, everybody is greedy

if its about principle then that's something different

if its about winning and not losing...well that depends on principle
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Re: Where Will They Play?

Postby Fred » Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:12 pm

Per wrote:
Fred wrote:+1

Not only that, you have to wonder why are we paying these guys so much when the same guys are willing to risk their careers playing for 1/100th of the money

It's called "for the love of the game".

Players want to play, and they want to play against the best possible opposition for the best possible play.
Since the B*ttman people have kicked them out, the players need to look elsewhere.

Most Russians go play in Russia, Czechs in the Czech Rep, Scandinavians in Scandinavia.

A lot of these players go play for the team that they grew up playing for, that learnt them the tricks of the trade.
Thus they give something back to the community that raised them.

But I can see that those siding with the owners don't understand.... they think it's all about money. :roll:
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Re: Where Will They Play?

Postby Fred » Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:21 pm

Hey if it's for the love of the game ....which is complete balderdash.... it's about the love of money. There's lots of quality ( ex NHL players and Junior A players ) amateur leagues in Canada if they want to play for the "love of the games" After convincing others that they need huge dollars to risk playing the sport because of injury or length of time they play ... what ever .... they're now willing to play and risk every thing for 1/100th of what they were insisting on before. How do you think fans paying for all those rediculous tickets feel. The poor stiff getting screwed is the 4th line players in the SEL or KHL who's out of a job and the Hell with that guys family.

I know right now some are suggesting that owners should increase the sharing of wealth amongst all the teams ....Hey !!! how about Weber sharing some of his wealth with the guys playing 4th line being paid minimum. :lol:
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Re: Where Will They Play?

Postby Cornuck » Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:27 pm

And if the owners brought in replacement players, the cry of "Scab!" would be heard from coast to coast.

But it's fine if they find another league to stay in 'game shape' and bounce guys off the team.
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