There will be a strike

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Fred
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Re: There will be a strike

Post by Fred » Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:17 pm

dbr wrote:Where are you going with this Fred, is this supposed to arrive at "nobody has any rights so the players should just shut up and accept whatever the owners want to pay them"?
When you start stating that nobody has the right, you can't be selective. You say nobody and then start adding addendums
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Topper
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Re: There will be a strike

Post by Topper » Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:19 pm

Strangelove wrote:... thought that might be premature.

But then I suppose premature in this case would be a GOOD thing. :D
Nailed it.
Over the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone or anything.

I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.

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Strangelove
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Re: There will be a strike

Post by Strangelove » Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:34 pm

... without using so much as even a figurative hammer. :wink:
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ukcanuck
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Re: There will be a strike

Post by ukcanuck » Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:42 pm

Strangelove wrote:... without using so much as even a figurative hammer. :wink:
don't always need a hammer...

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Strangelove
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Re: There will be a strike

Post by Strangelove » Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:44 pm

... now you're speaking literally :hmmm:

AND from experience?? :wink:
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ukcanuck
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Re: There will be a strike

Post by ukcanuck » Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:56 pm

Mondi wrote:This is for you SL and Topper, or as one might suggest mini-Romney and mini-Ryan:

http://www.ipolitics.ca/2012/09/08/1984 ... on-speech/

As for the owners, the dishonourable part is explained here:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/h ... le4548860/

But you already knew all that. You're like a mini version of Glen Beck. Let the sick die, right ol' chap?

With that being said, with each player that reports to an AHL or European team...well the pendulum swings the other way.
I was beginning to wonder if I was the only one around here who didn't see anyone in Clint's chair...

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ukcanuck
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Re: There will be a strike

Post by ukcanuck » Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:02 pm

Strangelove wrote:... now you're speaking literally :hmmm:

AND from experience?? :wink:
lol I was being descriptive

As for experience, if it wasnt for pop culture I would have no idea what y'all are talking about :shock:

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Strangelove
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Re: There will be a strike

Post by Strangelove » Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:09 pm

Mondi wrote:This is for you SL and Topper, or as one might suggest mini-Romney and mini-Ryan:

http://www.ipolitics.ca/2012/09/08/1984 ... on-speech/

As for the owners, the dishonourable part is explained here:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/h ... le4548860/

But you already knew all that. You're like a mini version of Glen Beck. Let the sick die, right ol' chap?

With that being said, with each player that reports to an AHL or European team...well the pendulum swings the other way.
Mondi you are sick. Image

And so is your hero, the hack David Shoalts.
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Re: There will be a strike

Post by Potatoe1 » Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:28 pm

ukcanuck wrote: What would you do if you were Fehr?
If I were Fehr I would continue stonewalling until the players are at risk of losing a paycheck. Once we get to that deadline I would make an offer that was close to what I ultimately was willing to settle for and hope negotiations go well.

I don't think the players have the stomach for a long lock out so he should make the best deal he can but right now there is no point in blinking.

If I were an owner I would kack the first 20-30 games of the season before making a good offer.

If you take out the Leaves, Rangers, Habs, and Canucks the league will likely make very similar over all profit on a 60 game sked as the do over 82 games.

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Hockey Widow
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Re: There will be a strike

Post by Hockey Widow » Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:38 pm

If I were fehr...

I would offer 50-50

I would ask for 2-3 years earlier UFA

I would ask that the compensation for signing an RFA's to an offer sheet be lessened

I would tweak waivers so a player had a choice of being bought out and becoming UFA ( for some players, like the Redden types...time in the NHL and all of that)

I would demand no restrictions on contract lengths

I would broadened arbitration so more players more often could use it.

I would demand higher inflation on expiring RFA contracts to keep the rights.

I would ask that cap could be bought and sold and teams could retain cap in trades

I would make it possible for any player to demand a trade and they could submit a list of say 10 teams and if a trade was not worked out they could become UFA.

I would do anything to keep the players mobile, earlier, longer and with more options. I would be creative.

Now I doubt the league would go for these things as is but thats the point. I would be negotiating hard to retain rights and then use the media. Say look here. We have offered 50-50 but we want rights. The owners have refused.
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ukcanuck
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Re: There will be a strike

Post by ukcanuck » Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:55 pm

Potatoe1 wrote:
ukcanuck wrote: What would you do if you were Fehr?
If I were Fehr I would continue stonewalling until the players are at risk of losing a paycheck. Once we get to that deadline I would make an offer that was close to what I ultimately was willing to settle for and hope negotiations go well.

I don't think the players have the stomach for a long lock out so he should make the best deal he can but right now there is no point in blinking.

If I were an owner I would kack the first 20-30 games of the season before making a good offer.

If you take out the Leaves, Rangers, Habs, and Canucks the league will likely make very similar over all profit on a 60 game sked as the do over 82 games.
I think you are right about not blinking till the first paycheque, which is Oct 15th I think. If they go past there (PA,) I think we are in for a loong lock out. It doesn't make any sense to fold after losing what would amount to a roll back anyway.

As for the Robber barons, well a coup d'etat is what I would be hoping for, except for those clubs you mention, and if its even true they are bleeding money, the only thing the teams below the Mason Dixon can hang their hat on is franchise value which will be sinking steadily with the entire league with each game lost.

we may be back here in Canada, (what else is there to do on a cold winter night, specially with Doc's premature problems :) )
But would you want to make that gamble a second time down south?
Last edited by ukcanuck on Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ukcanuck
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Re: There will be a strike

Post by ukcanuck » Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:57 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:If I were fehr...

I would offer 50-50

I would ask for 2-3 years earlier UFA

I would ask that the compensation for signing an RFA's to an offer sheet be lessened

I would tweak waivers so a player had a choice of being bought out and becoming UFA ( for some players, like the Redden types...time in the NHL and all of that)

I would demand no restrictions on contract lengths

I would broadened arbitration so more players more often could use it.

I would demand higher inflation on expiring RFA contracts to keep the rights.

I would ask that cap could be bought and sold and teams could retain cap in trades

I would make it possible for any player to demand a trade and they could submit a list of say 10 teams and if a trade was not worked out they could become UFA.

I would do anything to keep the players mobile, earlier, longer and with more options. I would be creative.

Now I doubt the league would go for these things as is but thats the point. I would be negotiating hard to retain rights and then use the media. Say look here. We have offered 50-50 but we want rights. The owners have refused.
sounds great but if it were Bettman across from you he would chip away at the 50 percent till it's closer to 47 which makes you a ten percent loser before we've even started and get ready to be fleeced on each point on your proposal.

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Hockey Widow
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Re: There will be a strike

Post by Hockey Widow » Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:12 pm

The funny thing is if they close the gap closer to 50% and do not roll back salaries then the existing players won't be the losers in this. They will keep their contracts albeit more in escrow but with gaining more mobility they gain in the long run.
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vic
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Re: There will be a strike

Post by vic » Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:24 pm

Can someone explain to me what the difference is between escrow and a roll-back?

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ukcanuck
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Re: There will be a strike

Post by ukcanuck » Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:01 pm

vic wrote:Can someone explain to me what the difference is between escrow and a roll-back?
AS I understand it:
The money owed to a player under contract is paid out in monthly paycheques, which begin and end on the first and last day of the season. A portion (24% I think.. ) of that pay is held back and placed in escrow, (like when you buy a house and the money is placed in safe keeping in neither the seller's or buyer's possession and not released until all subjects to the sale are removed)
Once the season is completed and all the hockey related Income for the league is calculated, the total amount paid to all players may not exceed 57% under the recently expired CBA. If the total amount paid out to all players in the league exceeds 57% of the HRR, the league gets what is in the escrow account.

So under the new proposal Bettman wants that number 57% of HRR to be lowered to 42% or 47% (negotiable)
This would result in a defacto rollback of wages since what a player signed the contract for and what he actually receives is less.

However I could be wrong so don't quote me.

If you sympathise with the players and think that the owners in general and Bettman in particular would sell their grandmother for a buck. You have to question the term HRR because you can drive a bus through that potential loophole.

When you buy a jersey with Schneider on the back for 300 dollars is the profit returning to the Canucks franchise hockey related? What about the revenue from concerts held in Roger's Arena that wouldn't exist if it weren't for the Canucks and the players that we all pay to watch?

Also its been said that if one in ten New Yorkers buy a NYR hat that's a lot of hats, does that belong to the Rangers exclusively or does it belong to the entire league? if it belongs to the NHL and I believe if you look a your Canucks hat right now there is a NHL products hologram on it. so profit on the money you paid for oit HRR or not?

whether you think all of this is bullshit, at the very least it ought to be plain as the beady little snake eyes on Bettman's face that the NHL has a boat load of New York Lawyers working on hiding every penny they have from the likes of you and me, if not the taxman, so really at the end of the day, its not public knowledge what the owners are pulling in, but every one know exactly what Parise and Suter signed for this summer and its a simple thing to go look 'hockey players make too much money for playing a game so fuck em" ...my grandmother can figure that much out and she's dead.

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