Boycott NHL owners non-NHL Businesses

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Re: Boycott NHL owners non-NHL Businesses

Postby Jovocop » Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:31 am

RoyalDude wrote:I really don't understand how you can side with the players over the owners. It's fucking Billionaires vs Millionaires. Some of you talk like players are so hard done by. They play a fucking game and make more money than most Fortune 500 Company CEO's of the world. Like Potatoe said, feel sorry for all those poor Olympic athletes who have to borrow money and find local sponsors to pay their rent and put food on the table so they can train. Let me let you in on something, NHL players are rich bastards as well, fucking spoiled to be honest. Shit, the lowest paid hockey player on a team makes what $650,000 a year. Holy shit, thats pittance, what a crying fucking shame. He makes more money than your average heart surgeon who went through 12 years of schooling to save peoples lives. I really can't stand the CBA, I have zero interest in hearing rich men fight with each other ovwer pieces of the pie. The one who loses in the end is the 5 figure salary earner paying fan, joe six pack. We are the ones working out budgets with our limited funds to find ways to buy them fucking expensive tix.


RD, I can not believe that I actually 100% agree with you. However, I have to say not all the players are greedy bastards. Some players would donate over $1m to the local hospitals :) .
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Re: Boycott NHL owners non-NHL Businesses

Postby vic » Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:54 am

the Dogsalmon wrote:
i very much doubt the top surgeons in the world earn an average of 2 million a year with zero business expenses...


You're probably right, but the top surgeons in the world probably don't perform 82+ surgeries a year where their physical well being is at risk - sorry, cutting your finger with a scalpel is not the same as getting run into a wall by a 200+ pound man flying at you at a speed of 30+ km/hour. Nor does he/she have other surgeons in the room trying to stop him/her from doing his/her job.

Also, the hospital owner is not making money hand over foot by selling Junior Mints while tens of thousands of people pay $100 each to watch the surgery live while being broadcast on live TV to millions of homes worldwide.

Finally, the argument shouldn't be 700 other professionals, it should be the percentage of pro hockey players worldwide playing in the NHL - I don't know what the number is but let's say in hockey leagues around the world there are 50,000 people playing hockey, the NHL constitutes 1.4% of that - if you are in the top 1.4% of any profession in the world, you are making money millions of dollars doing what you do.
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Re: Boycott NHL owners non-NHL Businesses

Postby Fred » Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:19 am

What is strange is the players actually sign personal contract that they negoiate & agree to willingly with each team. They agree ! they sign ! what's to complain about. The complaint is Weber wants more?, Lapierre wants more ? even after they have agreed to their salary.
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Re: Boycott NHL owners non-NHL Businesses

Postby dbr » Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:24 am

Fred wrote:What is strange is the players actually sign personal contract that they negoiate & agree to willingly with each team. They agree ! they sign ! what's to complain about. The complaint is Weber wants more?, Lapierre wants more ? even after they have agreed to their salary.


Players are pushing to keep things the way they are (ie. the same % of HRR, the same contract rules, etc) because they have done really well under this CBA, it's the owners pushing to keep players away from unrestricted free agency and to cut salaries (even on deals they agreed ! to and signed ! ).

Do you seriously believe what you posted or am I badly misreading you?
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Re: Boycott NHL owners non-NHL Businesses

Postby Boston Canucker » Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:46 pm

Fred wrote:What is strange is the players actually sign personal contract that they negoiate & agree to willingly with each team. They agree ! they sign ! what's to complain about. The complaint is Weber wants more?, Lapierre wants more ? even after they have agreed to their salary.


More? What CBA negotiations are you following? What is occurring is the exact opposite of what you state? The owners signed the contracts...they agreed! they signed! what's to complain about? The complaint is Leipold/Jacobs/Snider wants more? ...even after they agreed to pay the salary.

Side with the owners, fine, but don't totally misrepresent which side is looking to renege on contracts that they willingly signed...please.
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Re: Boycott NHL owners non-NHL Businesses

Postby Fred » Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:41 pm

Here's me thinking the players pay large lumps of money to agents to get them the best deal possible...individually
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Re: Boycott NHL owners non-NHL Businesses

Postby dbr » Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:43 pm

Of course they do. What does that have to do with the fact that in these CBA negotiations the framework of the discussion is just how much the players will concede to ownership (rather than the complete opposite, which you implied earlier)?
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Re: Boycott NHL owners non-NHL Businesses

Postby Fred » Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:57 pm

dbr wrote:
Fred wrote:What is strange is the players actually sign personal contract that they negoiate & agree to willingly with each team. They agree ! they sign ! what's to complain about. The complaint is Weber wants more?, Lapierre wants more ? even after they have agreed to their salary.


Players are pushing to keep things the way they are (ie. the same % of HRR, the same contract rules, etc) because they have done really well under this CBA, it's the owners pushing to keep players away from unrestricted free agency and to cut salaries (even on deals they agreed ! to and signed ! ).

Do you seriously believe what you posted or am I badly misreading you?



I think you're reading more into it. Individuallythe players work out their own deal and sign on the dotted line. Collectively they want a bigger piece of the pie, but I can't see Weber as an example actually benefitting further than his own contract has brought to him. It'll be no more than the cherry on the pie
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Re: Boycott NHL owners non-NHL Businesses

Postby Boston Canucker » Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:09 pm

Fred wrote:Here's me thinking the players pay large lumps of money to agents to get them the best deal possible...individually


Except there was you writing they wanted more, even after having signed the contract. Is there an example of present-day player signing a contract and then demanding more than the stated contract after it was signed? Who were you writing about?
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Re: Boycott NHL owners non-NHL Businesses

Postby dbr » Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:46 pm

Fred wrote:I think you're reading more into it.


I don't know what that means. If by "reading more into it" you mean "accurately noting the terms being debated by the NHL and the PA at this point," then yes I am. :P

Individuallythe players work out their own deal and sign on the dotted line.


Yes.

Collectively they want a bigger piece of the pie, but I can't see Weber as an example actually benefitting further than his own contract has brought to him. It'll be no more than the cherry on the pie


Collectively they want a bigger piece of the pie than the NHL is willing to agree to at this point, but really what we're talking about is that the players are willing to give some of the pie back to the owners and the owners want more than the players are willing to give.

Nobody on the players side is saying "I want more money than I am entitled to as per the terms of my contract," they are saying "I want the money that I [legitimately or not] believed I was entitled to when I signed my contract." Whether they had any reason to believe that or not given they've been paying into escrow their whole careers is certainly up for debate, but what's not up for debate is that this CBA negotiation has been largely about how much the players are willing to give back, not about whether to give back at all, nevermind whether (as you seem to be implying) they should be asking for even more.
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Re: Boycott NHL owners non-NHL Businesses

Postby Topper » Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:53 pm

The Weber deal is a poor example. Shea is guaranteed $68 million (4x$13mil, 2x$8mil) over the next six years. That money is untouchable except by his agent and the tax man. His NHL salary over that period is only $12mil (4x$1mil, 2x$4mil). With so little of his pay coming in salary, escrow is nearly meaningless to him.
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Re: Boycott NHL owners non-NHL Businesses

Postby Fred » Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:33 pm

Topper wrote:The Weber deal is a poor example. Shea is guaranteed $68 million (4x$13mil, 2x$8mil) over the next six years. That money is untouchable except by his agent and the tax man. His NHL salary over that period is only $12mil (4x$1mil, 2x$4mil). With so little of his pay coming in salary, escrow is nearly meaningless to him.



So why the heck should he give a dam ? he's on the NHLPA committee I believe. 700+ pl;ayers have all negoiated a contract of their own to the best of their/agents ability, squeezed every penney they can from the owners pocket to their pocket. If they were not satisfied one can only presume they would not have signed. That part they like.
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Re: Boycott NHL owners non-NHL Businesses

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:44 pm

the Dogsalmon wrote:
who would you rather have on Gilligans Island...apart from Maryanne and Ginger(not Schneider)...


Lovey........she had floppy hooters but she had a shitload of jack.
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Re: Boycott NHL owners non-NHL Businesses

Postby Strangelove » Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:16 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
the Dogsalmon wrote:
who would you rather have on Gilligans Island...apart from Maryanne and Ginger(not Schneider)...


Lovey........she had floppy hooters but she had a shitload of jack.


Yup you'd be a happy camper indeed Blobby:

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Re: Boycott NHL owners non-NHL Businesses

Postby Meds » Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:29 pm

Potatoe1 wrote:
Aaronp18 wrote:
Take the top 700 people on the planet in any profession and they will likely be just as well compensated. And of course in most professions their careers are substantially longer.


I would suggest you are mistaken on that point.

Not that it really matters. The players have every right to get the best deal they can, but make no mistake they are very fortunate to be very good at one of the few sports that pays very well.

I'm pretty sure the 700 best swimmers, or gymnasts, work every bit as hard and don't have an average salary of 2.5 mill per.


What about the 700 best carpenters, or electricians, or nurses, or mechanics, or fire fighters.....

You're off your rocker Aaronp18.

And let's just take a look at the hours in their work weeks.....I'd almost guarantee you that those 700 best put WAY more time into their individual jobs than any NHL player does. Oh and then a bunch of them will find the time to go and maintain their own health and fitness level AFTER they've spent the day doing what they are paid to do. And I'll bet part of their work day doesn't include massage and physical therapy to workout a cramped muscle.
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