Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Welcome to the main forum of our site. Anything and everything to do with the Vancouver Canucks is dicussed and debated here.

Moderator: Referees

User avatar
Canuck-One
CC 1st Team All-Star
Posts: 553
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2004 11:49 am
Location: Living the Life

Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Post by Canuck-One »

Madcombinepilot wrote:i see less of a roll back, more of a 'cap freeze'.. I cant see the games stars agreeing to taking that kind of finacial hit again...
I agree with you MCP, I see a long list of holdouts from the stars if that's the case.
User avatar
SKYO
MVP
MVP
Posts: 14992
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:34 pm

Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Post by SKYO »

If we don't get Doan, I'd want Versteeg, Goc & possibly Ellerby/Petrovic for RL+Ray.

Our second line really truly needs an addition to help the twins in the playoffs, and RK, Booth are not play makers, so getting a player who can pass and create plays for them would be beneficial.
Can the Canucks just win a Cup within the next 5 years.
Fred
CC Legend
Posts: 3435
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 7:00 pm

Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Post by Fred »

SKYO wrote:If we don't get Doan, I'd want Versteeg, Goc & possibly Ellerby/Petrovic for RL+Ray.

Our second line really truly needs an addition to help the twins in the playoffs, and RK, Booth are not play makers, so getting a player who can pass and create plays for them would be beneficial.
Kristian Huselius is a play making type. Injured for most of last year. Still an UFA, 33, maybe settle for a smaller salary ?
cheers
FAN
CC 2nd Team All-Star
Posts: 341
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:55 pm

Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Post by FAN »

wicked_world wrote:
FAN wrote: I think there's a great chance Luongo gets traded before the new CBA is written up, especially if there is significant salary roll-back in the new CBA.
Care to go more deeper into that if you can? While I hope that's the case(getting too bloody anxious over here) it seems like the GMs are waiting to see just how much the roll-back really is and if there's any repercussions with having a long term contract. I'm also assuming if Lu gets traded after there's a salary roll-back that it would follow him to wherever he goes... But I'm not an expert haha.
I just don't see the benefit of waiting for the new CBA to be drawn up as far as trading Luongo goes. If there's going to be a salary rollback, GMs are going to know what they are working with before the any new CBA is finalized so I don't think waiting for everything to be signed is unnecessary.
Fred
CC Legend
Posts: 3435
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 7:00 pm

Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Post by Fred »

Is it the GM's that are waiting or players/agents who know that a new deal now before the new CBA will be subject to the roll back ? ie get less
cheers
FAN
CC 2nd Team All-Star
Posts: 341
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:55 pm

Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Post by FAN »

Fred wrote:Is it the GM's that are waiting or players/agents who know that a new deal now before the new CBA will be subject to the roll back ? ie get less
We're talking about Luongo here though. He's already signed so regardless of what happens with the CBA, I'm sure Luongo wants to know where he's going to play next year sooner rather than later. As for the GMs, my point is that they will know what the rollback will likely be before a new CBA ratified so if salary rollback is a factor in the trade negotiations, GMs can wait and see what the rollback will be and then made the deal. No need to wait for the new CBA to be ratified though.
dbr
CC Legend
Posts: 3093
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 5:37 pm

Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Post by dbr »

FAN wrote:
Fred wrote:Is it the GM's that are waiting or players/agents who know that a new deal now before the new CBA will be subject to the roll back ? ie get less
We're talking about Luongo here though. He's already signed so regardless of what happens with the CBA, I'm sure Luongo wants to know where he's going to play next year sooner rather than later. As for the GMs, my point is that they will know what the rollback will likely be before a new CBA ratified so if salary rollback is a factor in the trade negotiations, GMs can wait and see what the rollback will be and then made the deal. No need to wait for the new CBA to be ratified though.
No offense, but isn't that just pointless semantics? Unless I am misreading your posts it seems like you're saying that GMs don't have to wait for the next CBA to know what their situation will be in that environment, instead they can just wait until it is all but completed and then move forward..

At any rate, I would suggest that GMs are unlikely to be making deals with one another in the absence of a collective bargaining agreement, much less that the league would actually approve them - and given the brinksmanship that seems to be going on here I'd guess we will almost certainly see time time with no effective CBA in place.
mnaslund
AHL Prospect
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:58 pm

Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Post by mnaslund »

I think Luo has next to no value on the market and the most we can hope to fetch for him is a prospect and 3rd line nhl player. I would be happy with that return giving his contract and the fact our GM has zero leverage.
nuckster
MVP
MVP
Posts: 612
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:35 am
Location: Penticton

Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Post by nuckster »

mnaslund wrote:I think Luo has next to no value on the market and the most we can hope to fetch for him is a prospect and 3rd line nhl player. I would be happy with that return giving his contract and the fact our GM has zero leverage.
Are you for real?? I would say 'welcome to the board', but I think your statement has 'troll-like' qualities and you're probably either a long-timer from here who's attempting to have some fun, or a calpucker with his head up his ass.
cc oldtimer
FAN
CC 2nd Team All-Star
Posts: 341
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:55 pm

Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Post by FAN »

dbr wrote: No offense, but isn't that just pointless semantics? Unless I am misreading your posts it seems like you're saying that GMs don't have to wait for the next CBA to know what their situation will be in that environment, instead they can just wait until it is all but completed and then move forward..
I'm not sure if you have actually been following along, a poster asked the question whether there was a chance that Luongo would be traded before the new CBA was written up. I responded by saying that I think there's a great chance Luongo gets traded before the new CBA is written up, especially if there is significant salary roll-back in the new CBA. I was asked to elaborate and I elaborated on the salary roll back part (to me salary rollback is just a bonus in any deal for Luongo). Now, there are obviously risks to trading for Luongo before the new CBA is ratified. The new CBA might mandate that players cap hit or a portion of it will still take up a team's cap hit even if the player retires and there is no grandfather clause. But how likely is that? I don't think that's likely.

So with that in mind, I think that teams that are reportedly interested in Luongo are generally fine with Luongo's cap hit and any salary rollback will only make Luongo more attractive. I'm not in the room, but in negotiations, you can know pretty early some of the numbers you're working with. Hypothetical example: NHL asks for 24% salary rollback, NHLPA counters with 10% salary rollback. NHL asks for players to take up 43% of revenue, NHLPA counters with 50%. Note those are just hypothetical examples but the point is that it's possible to know where the guideposts are. More importantly, as it pertains to Luongo, I feel that teams that are interested in Luongo now are not too worried about what the new CBA will look like. A lower cap will not affect Florida and all Tallon has to figure out is if he has the budget to take on Luongos' salary. Toronto will not care about salary rollback as much as whether Luongo's cap hit would be a problem, especially if the cap will not continue to rise. But Luongo's cap hit is very manageable so I don't think there's going to be an issue there. I think a GM might wait and see if there's going to be anything crazy in the next CBA but it doesn't take long to figure out whether trading for Luongo would still be attractive.

Is Gillis waiting for to see if the new CBA will result in new interested parties or a team who might be willing to step up their offer depending on how the new cba goes? It's possible, but I don't think that's the case and that's my thinking right now.
dbr wrote: At any rate, I would suggest that GMs are unlikely to be making deals with one another in the absence of a collective bargaining agreement, much less that the league would actually approve them - and given the brinksmanship that seems to be going on here I'd guess we will almost certainly see time time with no effective CBA in place
I disagree with your suggestion. The current CBA is set to expire but it hasn't expired yet so it's business as usual as far as trades and contract negotiations go and there's absolutely no reason why the league won't approve a reasonable hockey trade. We've seen teams signing players to long-term contracts before the new CBA so it's not like GMs are scared of taking on long-term contracts before the new CBA.
dbr
CC Legend
Posts: 3093
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 5:37 pm

Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Post by dbr »

Fair enough.

I have no sense of how the next CBA is going to differ from the current one but I'd say that for example if the cap ceiling is once again linked to league wide revenue and the cap floor is say 90% of the cap ceiling, a team like Florida might balk at being put in a position to be paying $1.4m a year over the cap floor.

If that's all off the table, then I'd agree that not much is going to change. And yes a rollback or a scenario in which the cap ceiling won't inflate like it has these past few years certainly makes Luongo's contract look better rather than worse.

Ultimately to me it seems like nobody is going to blink any time soon so it's more likely that a new CBA creates another potential suitor or two than anything and it shakes enough pieces loose that a deal can happen. Right now it looks like that's not even on the horizon (although as Gillis keeps saying on the radio it can all change with one phone call.. apparently).
FAN
CC 2nd Team All-Star
Posts: 341
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:55 pm

Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Post by FAN »

dbr wrote: I have no sense of how the next CBA is going to differ from the current one but I'd say that for example if the cap ceiling is once again linked to league wide revenue and the cap floor is say 90% of the cap ceiling, a team like Florida might balk at being put in a position to be paying $1.4m a year over the cap floor.
Florida were actually millions over the cap floor last season and if the cap floor is going to be like 90% of the cap ceiling as in your example, the Panthers will likely NEED to add salary depending on how the Kulikov negotiations go. However, there is a belief that the Panthers have an internal budget and Luongo's contract being higher in actual dollars than his cap hit for several years to come might not be all that attractive.
dbr wrote: And yes a rollback or a scenario in which the cap ceiling won't inflate like it has these past few years certainly makes Luongo's contract look better rather than worse.
I'm not sure if you having things right here dbr. If the cap ceiling won't go up like it has in the past, it actually doesn't make Luongo's contract look better and might actually make it look worse.
dbr wrote: Ultimately to me it seems like nobody is going to blink any time soon so it's more likely that a new CBA creates another potential suitor or two than anything and it shakes enough pieces loose that a deal can happen. Right now it looks like that's not even on the horizon (although as Gillis keeps saying on the radio it can all change with one phone call.. apparently).
I agree. It does seem like Luongo trade talks have heated up at all. Regardless, so you don't think Luongo will go to one of the teams that has already shown serious interest in acquiring Luongo? Personally, I can't see how the next CBA will do much in the way of creating another potential suitor. There will have to be a significant salary rollback and or a provision that allows teams to buyout players and not have it count as much under the cap or something like that. I just don't see too many teams interested in acquiring Luongo and waiting to see if the new CBA makes Luongo's contract affordable. I can see there being a team that is seriously interested in Luongo but really can't afford it and area really hoping that the new CBA will help them out, but I just don't know...
mnaslund
AHL Prospect
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:58 pm

Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Post by mnaslund »

Welcome to the boards I guess??? and I though hf was bad
Board warning issued
Sent: Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:39 pm
From: rats19
To: mnaslund

"The following is a warning which has been issued to you by an administrator or moderator of this site.If that is your opinion..that's fine, however please go back and defend your positoon. Or pm myself back, because that does have troll written all over it"

Not sure why its so hard for some of us canucks fans to understand why what I said before was true??? Even though we all myself included dont want to hear it.

1. Lou wants out, canucks want to move him- everyone knows this
2. Lou decides what team he goes to, not our GM
3. For the sake of the dressing room gillis has to move him beforfore the season starts, saying otherwise is just posturing
4. Lou's contract while not so bad right now, will really hurt aprox 5 years from now

And we expect top end talent in return???? your the trolls if you ask me
User avatar
rats19
Moderator & MVP
Moderator & MVP
Posts: 16318
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:21 am
Location: over here.....

Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Post by rats19 »

mnaslund wrote:Welcome to the boards I guess??? and I though hf was bad
Board warning issued
Sent: Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:39 pm
From: rats19
To: mnaslund

"The following is a warning which has been issued to you by an administrator or moderator of this site.If that is your opinion..that's fine, however please go back and defend your position. Or pm myself back, because that does have troll written all over it"

Not sure why its so hard for some of us canucks fans to understand why what I said before was true??? Even though we all myself included dont want to hear it.

1. Lou wants out, canucks want to move him- everyone knows this
2. Lou decides what team he goes to, not our GM
3. For the sake of the dressing room gillis has to move him beforfore the season starts, saying otherwise is just posturing
4. Lou's contract while not so bad right now, will really hurt aprox 5 years from now

And we expect top end talent in return???? your the trolls if you ask me
Ok you have defended yourself and that is just fine. good job..the part about my warning and the "your the trolls" not so much....

If you dont understand the position that was taken by the poster who replied and them myself I am sorry about that. But 99.9% of the time a 1st post of that nature comes from other than canuck fans...:)
Silence intelligence so stupid isn’t offended….
mnaslund
AHL Prospect
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:58 pm

Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Post by mnaslund »

Sorry for being so defensive, I just think alot of people are going to be surprised by the return we get for him.....
Post Reply