There will be a strike

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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Fred » Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:45 pm

Canuck-One wrote:Yes Fred I do think there is a long list of Billionaires waiting to be owners. Hell in Vancouver alone we had two groups fighting each other to be the Canucks owner. The owner of RIM fought the league for years to get in on the gravy. Tell me do you think there are no more rich people who want in...



If they did want in badly enough there's a list of failing teams only too happy to get the Hell out with the clothes on their backs. RIM ( what's left of it ) was to big for his britches ( foolish man... as can be seen in their current plight ) and insulted the board of guvernors....they in turn told him where to poke it. It was a who has the biggest exercise and the one that held all the cards won ....there's a surpise :D Right now Phx has been on the market for at least 3 years and no takers, heck the current perspective buyer can't find a partner to anti up $20 million to conclude the deal ...that says a lot. How many teams have owners sold in recent years. If there's a big turn over it's bad sign. How many owners have gotten out of the NFL...few... that's a good sign. I was surprised recently when Manchester United after thoughts of making their IPO at $19 ended up at $14. There's no appetite today for risky investment. Plus the league does have reputation for attracting shady characters who I certainly wouldn't want to rub shoulders with

Billionaires are just that because they don't get sucked into bad deal, hello Warren Buffet !

The Ontario teachers pension fund wants out of the Leafs and that's the best franchise in the league!!!, a license to print money. So may i ask if they're making that much why do they want out ? answer they can do better else where
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Southern_Canuck » Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:57 pm

Interestingly, in the far-and-away highest revenue major league sport - the NFL - their average player salary is lower than the NHL...

Average salaries in the NBA, NFL, MLB, and NHL (figures from Nov 2011)

NBA = $5.15M (49-51% of revenue)
MLB = $3.31M (no salary cap, but historically around 50%)
NHL = $2.4M (57% of revenue)
NFL = $1.9M (47% of revenue)

Of course the number of players on the roster skews the numbers... the NFL with 1,696 players to NHL's 690.

BUT, the NHL derives most of its revenue from ticket sales, whereas the other leagues have healthy national TV contracts:

National TV contract money
NFL = $3B per season
NBA = $930M per season
MLB = $711M per season
NHL = $200M per season

The NHL deal runs through the 2020-21 season, so the situation won't change anytime soon.

S_C
Last edited by Southern_Canuck on Sat Aug 11, 2012 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Lancer » Sat Aug 11, 2012 4:03 pm

Fred wrote:Just out of interest do you think there's a long line of owners waiting and licking their lips to get hold of an NHL franchise and if not why when it's clearly a cash cow ?


As Canuck-One pointed out, there is a significant list of people with the means to buy an NHL franchise in a healthy, viable market. If the Rangers, the Leafs or the Red Wings went up for sale, how long do you think the line-up would be of suitors? On the same token, how many times has the league tried to find a decent buyer for the Coyotes? How many owners have the Lightning been through in the past couple of years? If the league was actually able to come up with a revenue sharing system where - provided the operation was run competently - any one of the teams was a solid bet to make a significant profit, you would not have situations such as that in Phoenix. Just try selling that to the Sniders and Jacobs of the league.

Canuck-One wrote: Where I currently work we used to have 1700 employees and we are now down to 700. We still have all of the supervisory positions we had at 1700, not one cut. Instead the cuts all came from the labour side. The side that actually produces something tangible. We are now at 1 manager for every 3 employees.


Nice... what a ratio of managers to workers that is! :crazy: I lived through the defence cuts of the 90s, which included my dad getting a severance offer and my basic private pay rate was frozen. They cut upper management and didn't hire/retain the lower ranks but we're still facing the workforce after-effects today. No perfect way to do cuts even when they're necessary, but cutting almost solely from the shop floor - unless they have some concrete credible reasoning to back it up - smacks me as something unethical.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Potatoe1 » Sat Aug 11, 2012 4:26 pm

Canuck-One wrote:Hi Lancer, I'm glad to see someone else on here who shudders as I do everytime I read such drivel like SC's bum kissing. He starts off pointing the finger in the right direction and then ends up eating his own words. Yes SC all companies need to adjust to difficult times, but their first step should be a business practice review. How much fat can management cut from their bloated and top heavy style. Where I currently work we used to have 1700 employees and we are now down to 700. We still have all of the supervisory positions we had at 1700, not one cut. Instead the cuts all came from the labour side. The side that actually produces something tangible. We are now at 1 manager for every 3 employees. I don't know about the rest of you but that's ridiculous. Let's face it the players (employees) are the show, without them there is nothing. If the owners don't think they are making enough then the next move should be profit and revenue sharing with each other, not gutting the entertainment factor. Or start to trim the losing cities.


Most companies are cutting middle management as well.

And to be honest with you it's very "90's" for labor and middle management to be pointing fingers at each other.

Mid managers not have it every bit as shitty as labor and in fact it's worse in a lot of cases. Those guys are worked harder and paid less then they were 10 years ago, unless we are talking public sector anyway.

My old man tried for the better part of a decade to convince me to get an MBA and join the corporate world, a month after he retired he admitted how wrong he was.

Sales reps, small business owners, and highly trained professionals, really seem to be the only people making money anymore.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby the Dogsalmon » Sat Aug 11, 2012 4:41 pm

blah...blah...blah...we the fans are still gonna take it in the shitter...
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Fred » Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:35 pm

Sales reps, small business owners, and highly trained professionals, really seem to be the only people making money anymore.


and apparently NHL players :lol:

If like Man United the Canucks had a IPO I'm dam sure I wouldn't invest in them. I remember when half the Pacific Coloseum was empty ( you could wander in and sit almost any where ) and me thinks it could happen again. If it can happen in Vcr it could happen most places, maybe not TO or Mtl but the rest have gone through that at one time or another
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Reefer2 » Sat Aug 11, 2012 10:51 pm

a different kind of postering (yes I know :stupid: )

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=402841

I am not as positive as others about when the season will start even if it does. Owners and players will never learn from past mistakes.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Arachnid » Sun Aug 12, 2012 3:20 am

Southern_Canuck wrote:Interestingly, in the far-and-away highest revenue major league sport - the NFL - their average player salary is lower than the NHL...

Average salaries in the NBA, NFL, MLB, and NHL (figures from Nov 2011)

NBA = $5.15M (49-51% of revenue)
MLB = $3.31M (no salary cap, but historically around 50%)
NHL = $2.4M (57% of revenue)
NFL = $1.9M (47% of revenue)

Of course the number of players on the roster skews the numbers... the NFL with 1,696 players to NHL's 690.

BUT, the NHL derives most of its revenue from ticket sales, whereas the other leagues have healthy national TV contracts:

National TV contract money
NFL = $3B per season
NBA = $930M per season
MLB = $711M per season
NHL = $200M per season

The NHL deal runs through the 2020-21 season, so the situation won't change anytime soon.

S_C


After the last debacle I really wanted the players to form their own league...or at the very least from a partnership where they are owners too ala WestJet or even quasi-SuperMario....now they are going to pay for it. Management (the owners) is just as fucked up as the employees (the players) as a former union employee and small business owner I know what it's like to be on both sides of the negotiating table. All about the ego....fuckheads...
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Boston Canucker » Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:49 am

If this new CBA is settled with all the changes occurring at the expense of the players, and with no significant move towards revenue sharing, then you can bet the house we'll be back in the same spot in 5-8 years, whenever the new CBA expires. Bettman never asks anything from his owners, he just keeps trying to get givebacks from the players. We're on the verge of the 3rd lockout under his reign. It's unprecedented for a major sports commisssioner. The NFL has massive revenue sharing (10 times the level the NHL has), and it is that - the revenue coming in that is pooled and shared - and not the average salary (which has to be spread over twice as many players than for NHL teams) which allows the small market teams of the NFL to compete.

I side with the players for many reasons, they're the talent, they have shorter careers/earning time than owners etc. But also because past is prologue and the NHL/Bettman defined solutions to the NHL economic problems are stopgaps that don't really address league issues. We have parity in the league not because of the salary cap but because of the lose in OT/SO get a point anyway rule; the losers win and stay in the hunt, so batten down the hatches, put 5 men in the box, block shots and pray for a lucky goal in Bettman's world of parity.

If Bettman wins this negotiation, he'll peacock around for awhile, and then in 5-8 years he will be back saying the owners can't live under this horrible, unfair agreement (just as he is doing right now...we can't live by the agreement we wrote), book it.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby the Dogsalmon » Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:51 am

bettman is a little prick...
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Potatoe1 » Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:56 am

Boston Canucker wrote:. We have parity in the league not because of the salary cap but because of the lose in OT/SO get a point anyway rule; the losers win and stay in the hunt, so batten down the hatches, put 5 men in the box, block shots and pray for a lucky goal in Bettman's world of parity.


Uhhh, no the cap has created a ton of parity.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby the Dogsalmon » Sun Aug 12, 2012 9:08 am

Potatoe1 wrote:
Boston Canucker wrote:. We have parity in the league not because of the salary cap but because of the lose in OT/SO get a point anyway rule; the losers win and stay in the hunt, so batten down the hatches, put 5 men in the box, block shots and pray for a lucky goal in Bettman's world of parity.


Uhhh, no the cap has created a ton of parity.



but the OT/SO thing creates problems that alow shitty teams to stay in tha race...its gotta go as well as bettman...
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Boston Canucker » Sun Aug 12, 2012 9:25 am

Potatoe1 wrote:
Boston Canucker wrote:. We have parity in the league not because of the salary cap but because of the lose in OT/SO get a point anyway rule; the losers win and stay in the hunt, so batten down the hatches, put 5 men in the box, block shots and pray for a lucky goal in Bettman's world of parity.


Uhhh, no the cap has created a ton of parity.


It has created some parity, but not as much as the 1 point for an ot/so loss. Look at the teams still in it after the trade deadline. Remove that, see what you got.

And regardless, Bettman is not moving towards a lockout to get parity on the ice, he's got that, this is not what the new deal is about anyway.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Sun Aug 12, 2012 9:38 am

Bettman is a little prick but if anyone thinks HE is anything more than a hand puppet and a mouth for the owners . Give Bettman the boot and they'll get another puppet in there.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby the Dogsalmon » Sun Aug 12, 2012 9:47 am

Blob Mckenzie wrote:Bettman is a little prick but if anyone thinks HE is anything more than a hand puppet and a mouth for the owners . Give Bettman the boot and they'll get another puppet in there.



a different puppet show would be nice to see...
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