Tanev Development Discussion

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Re: Tanev Development Discussion

Postby Southern_Canuck » Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:42 am

Nice knee socks Schneidly Whiplash.

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Re: Tanev Development Discussion

Postby donlever » Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:13 am

RoyalDude wrote: But hey, I guess I'm completely out of order and that I should know that Tanev is extremely limited after just turning 22. Me bad.

Tanev -54 Career NHL games to date. Lets write him off shall we.


I didn't say fuck all about writing him off.

You said he was "big, 6'2" 200 lbs.", I call bullshit. The kids (currently) a fucking waif. (We'll see where he's at after a summer with Roberts.)

Keep it real Dude.
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Re: Tanev Development Discussion

Postby FAN » Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:46 pm

Potatoe1 wrote:In the AHL this season he had 14 points in 34 games which is basically the same ppg average as Kevin Connauton.

I agree his shot is terrible but his passing and offensive instincts are very decent for a young defenseman.

I don't think he will be the type who puts up a lot of points, but I think he is more then capable of contributing to the offensive flow while he's on the ice.


I agree that Tanev's passing is very good, but Tanev hasn't (yet?) shown an ability to carry the puck up ice and create offense with his puckrushing capabilities. I just think Tanev is the type where he gets lost in the shuffle and ends up being an underrated defenseman for most of his career unless he figures out a way to carve out a niche for himself.
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Re: Tanev Development Discussion

Postby Lancer » Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:59 pm

FAN wrote:
Potatoe1 wrote:In the AHL this season he had 14 points in 34 games which is basically the same ppg average as Kevin Connauton.

I agree his shot is terrible but his passing and offensive instincts are very decent for a young defenseman.

I don't think he will be the type who puts up a lot of points, but I think he is more then capable of contributing to the offensive flow while he's on the ice.


I agree that Tanev's passing is very good, but Tanev hasn't (yet?) shown an ability to carry the puck up ice and create offense with his puckrushing capabilities. I just think Tanev is the type where he gets lost in the shuffle and ends up being an underrated defenseman for most of his career unless he figures out a way to carve out a niche for himself.


I'm not overly fussed if he never developed into a puck-rushing D. Yeah, it makes him more predictable to the opposition but if he can hit forwards in stride with long lead passes on the tape I don't think it's a necessity for him to be able to pull an Erhoff every game or two. Frankly, I'd be happier if he didn't - it just doesn't seem to fit him and the Canucks need what he brings more than what he may offer by trying. A kid like Connauton, on the other hand, is a different tool in the toolbox. I would like to see someone like him get a bit of a longer look and a longer leash this season if he's ready.
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Re: Tanev Development Discussion

Postby Potatoe1 » Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:11 pm

FAN wrote:I agree that Tanev's passing is very good, but Tanev hasn't (yet?) shown an ability to carry the puck up ice and create offense with his puckrushing capabilities.


None of the Canuck defenseman do that because they are "supposed" to make a quick first pass.

If Tanev held onto the puck and tried to skate it out the coaching staff would go bonkers the same way they do when Ballard does it.

Don't mistake "playing within the system" as not being able to play.

Again, his offensive instincts are fine, he just cant shoot.
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Re: Tanev Development Discussion

Postby Blaster86 » Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:02 am

The fuck? This thread is Bizzaro world. Dude preaching patience, Blob shitting the bed over a 22 year old. My god!

Me am not confused by this and me like it very much! Good morning!
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Re: Tanev Development Discussion

Postby FAN » Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:58 am

Potatoe1 wrote:
FAN wrote:I agree that Tanev's passing is very good, but Tanev hasn't (yet?) shown an ability to carry the puck up ice and create offense with his puckrushing capabilities.


None of the Canuck defenseman do that because they are "supposed" to make a quick first pass.

If Tanev held onto the puck and tried to skate it out the coaching staff would go bonkers the same way they do when Ballard does it.

Don't mistake "playing within the system" as not being able to play.

Oh I beg to differ. How many times have you seen Bieksa and Ehrhoff carry the puck up ice? How many times have you seen a Canucks Dman hold the puck behind the net while either a Canucks Dman or forward circle around to pick up the puck or receive a pass and then proceed to carry the puck up ice? With Ehrhoff gone, Bieksa is the best Canucks Dman at carrying the puck up ice and it's pretty much a set play for Hamhuis to hold the puck and wait for Bieksa to pick it up.

Don't mistake "rushing the puck up ice" with "forcing a play."
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Re: Tanev Development Discussion

Postby Fred » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:34 am

Holding the puck behind the net is an option play. Often they cannon it up to the weak side winger standing up at the opposition blue line. But if the opposition send in one fore checker they option to carry it or pass off to the curling forward. You take what's there but as a rule they don't rush it.
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Re: Tanev Development Discussion

Postby FAN » Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:28 am

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Re: Tanev Development Discussion

Postby dbr » Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:04 am

That was on the powerplay and the Blue Jackets (Nikitin specifically if I recall) left a hole in their coverage so wide you could literally drive a truck through.
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Re: Tanev Development Discussion

Postby Potatoe1 » Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:19 am

dbr wrote:That was on the powerplay and the Blue Jackets (Nikitin specifically if I recall) left a hole in their coverage so wide you could literally drive a truck through.


Correct.

Plays like that happen.

The Canucks system is built around quick transition and puck posession. The Coaching staff very much prefers their D to make a good first pass up ice over lugging the puck or cycling back into their own zone.

This is one of the reasons Tanev fits in so well here. Excellent first pass and smart enough to skate with his head up and find an open forward.

Keith Ballard would be the Ying to that Yang.
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Re: Tanev Development Discussion

Postby donlever » Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:36 am

Potatoe1 wrote:
Keith Ballard would be the Ying to that Yang.


The sad thing is that Keith can actually move the puck pretty well.

He just is not (has not) able to transition his game from one style (his) to another (ours).

Unfortunate for sure because he is not as much of a bum as he has appeared in Vancouver (other than the latter half of last season when he fit in much better and looked pretty decent)...
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Re: Tanev Development Discussion

Postby rats19 » Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:41 am

I think ballard is going to come real close to almost earning his cap hit this year...barring injury...lockout..


I also think booth will too..

*where better than the tanev thread*
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Re: Tanev Development Discussion

Postby Fred » Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:18 am

dbr wrote:That was on the powerplay and the Blue Jackets (Nikitin specifically if I recall) left a hole in their coverage so wide you could literally drive a truck through.


Even Edler was laughing when he got back to the bench. It was like the 1 on 2 play that every coach hates. you get 'im , no I'll get 'im , no you get him and in the end no one gets him and he skates right through. It should never happen at the NHL level. If the carrier is left handed the right side D should take him and vise versa ( most players make a back hand deke )
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Re: Tanev Development Discussion

Postby FAN » Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:52 pm

Potatoe1 wrote:The Coaching staff very much prefers their D to make a good first pass up ice over lugging the puck or cycling back into their own zone.


That's pretty much what every NHL coach prefers nowadays, and a reason why true puck-rushign defensemen were a dying breed (I think they are making a comeback). If there's a first pass you can make to a teammate that results in the puck moving quickly up the ice you make it. But that doesn't mean the ability to carry the puck up the ice and gaining at least the red line isn't important for Canucks' Dmen. Vigneault doesn't take kindly to a Dman trying to carry the puck up ice only to cough it up. But that does not mean Vigneault is opposed to a defenseman rushing the puck up the ice when the defenseman can consistently gain the offensive zone and create plays. I don't think Vigenault is that limited. Personally, I think the Canucks' defensemen inability to consistently carry the puck to the red line was a major weakness in the playoffs the past few years.

Regardless, say we agree to disagree on the opportunities for Canucks' Dmen to rush the puck up ice within the system, you can still tell a Dmen's ability to carry the puck up ice just by watching him. It's pretty easy to see that Bieksa, Edler, and Ballard are the designated puck carriers in their defensive pairings for good reasons.

I stand my point, Tanev has not shown the ability to carry the puck up the ice and create offense. Does he have the ability? I don't know, because Tanev has been playing a conservative stay-at-home game for the most part (not saying this as a slight). There have been few opportunities where Tanev actually tried to carry the puck up ice.

Somehow, I think some posters here have different definitions of what puck rushing means.
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