Patience: Gillis is doing the right thing.

Welcome to the main forum of our site. Anything and everything to do with the Vancouver Canucks is dicussed and debated here.

Moderator: Referees

Patience: Gillis is doing the right thing.

Postby ClamRussel » Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:50 am

Forget Burke & Tallon's tactics....and the "consensus in the media. Gillis has a significant and rare asset on his hands and would be a fool to flip Luongo merely to forgo the inevitable media circus and to free up cap space. Why should he do Burke any favours based on the Leafs petty actions in recent years past (tampering w/ the Sedins etc). Acquiring Luongo all but guarantees they at least make the playoffs. That means playoff revenue and franchise credibility. That equates to sizeable value. The Panthers are already there and all they need is an improvement in goal to be a contender in the east. That also has sizeable value. To think they have Gillis bent over a barrel is an insult. The media should get it out of their head as well.

Now Luongo's contract is a negative for sure but it hardly negates his worth. Perhaps a bad contract has to come back in return, but that would mean it should then be a fair hockey trade. Certainly Luongo's worth is some combination of draft picks and solid prospects (which as we well know is always a gamble).

If Brodeur moves on and Jersey sorts out their ownership/debt issues then they are a very interesting trading partner. The other X factor is, going into the season with Luongo & Schneider sharing starts with the understanding that a trade will be worked out as soon as something fair comes along. Its almost a certainty that a goalie somewhere (on a contender) will either get injured or falter...at that point a team could come calling looking for immediate help. Things can chance fast so its fantastic to see Gillis hold out for another GM to blink and realize that they need an upgrade or their own job could be on the line.

The last draft was not deep so kudos for GMMG not caving into to media pressure & throwing Luongo out the door like a kid on top of the playground slide yelling "scramble"!
"Once a King, always a King"
-Mike Murphy
User avatar
ClamRussel
CC Legend
 
Posts: 3746
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2004 10:50 am
Location: New South Wales, Australia

Re: Patience: Gillis is doing the right thing.

Postby rats19 » Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:10 am

^^
Nice clam....good to see you too.
You are who you hang with.....
User avatar
rats19
Moderator & MVP
Moderator & MVP
 
Posts: 4724
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:21 am
Location: over there.....

Re: Patience: Gillis is doing the right thing.

Postby Topper » Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:29 am

Clam, I agree with your thoughts on Luongo's added value to the Leaves and Panthers.

I still can not fathom how anyone believe Roberto's contract is a negative. The advantageous nature of that contract was the reason it was reviewed by the league and the league later added restraints on long term contracts. The financial terms, the length of term, the cap hit, the out clauses, Roberto's age and how these are mated makes this a very fair deal.

I have a hard time buying the argument that teams will come calling due to injury or poor performance issues during the season. We have seen this scenario repeatedly and it does not pan out the way you have envisioned. Notably in Vancouver was Cloutier's injury when we went the year with Auld. Again when Roberto suffered a groin pull and we endured with a backup for six weeks. During both these instances, we were told there were options out there and discussions took place, but the price was never reasonable.

The off season, when the cap can be manipulated, is the time to do these major deals. This seems even more the case, and I don't know why, for goaltenders. True that cap allows for injury relief, however, there is always the question, what do you do when the injury is healed?
Over the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone or anything.

I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.
User avatar
Topper
CC Legend
 
Posts: 4826
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 8:11 pm
Location: Earth, most days.

Re: Patience: Gillis is doing the right thing.

Postby Fred » Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:49 pm

Seems to me BB lack of ability to find a goalie makes him a sure bet to some day end up as a scout for the Flyers. In Vcr he praised and saddled us with Cloutier and Potvin. Then he waived Bryzgalov from Anaheim in his prime tried to resurrect the careers of Giguère , Gerber , and now wants to rest his career on Reimer, let go the Future of the Franchise "The Monster" on and on and on.

If he fails to find a genuine goalie this season and fails to make the play-offs yet again he's out of work. He's gun shy to trading a draft pick thanks to his blunder with Kessels/Boston.

So will he pick up Luongo, put me down as doubtful BB history tells us he doesn't have a clue about goalies. I see he bought out Coby Armstrong today :eh:
cheers
Fred
CC Legend
 
Posts: 3433
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 7:00 pm

Re: Patience: Gillis is doing the right thing.

Postby ClamRussel » Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:05 pm

Hey Topper, great point about the contract. I probably should have stated it is seen as a negative by many....mostly in the media (parroting each other as per usual)...but I thought it was a brilliant (if not questionable) contract in terms of keeping the cap hit low and the fact Lu never would have played it out for a million per. Not sure if the CBA would mean the team would be on the hook for the remainder cap hit (on retirement) or not considering his age when signed etc. For a starter, the cap hit is completely reasonable. Its certainly a negative in terms of overall money owed ($48mill or so) if a team like the Devils was involved (so much uncertainty there).

Fred, the fact Burke says he is happy with his current goaltending situation should be enough for ownership and Leaf fans to set their hair on fire. Total goaltending fail. Some people clearly don't learn from their past mistakes. Perhaps he should consult more w/ Nonis on the issue and, more importantly, Francois Allaire.
"Once a King, always a King"
-Mike Murphy
User avatar
ClamRussel
CC Legend
 
Posts: 3746
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2004 10:50 am
Location: New South Wales, Australia

Re: Patience: Gillis is doing the right thing.

Postby Topper » Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:06 pm

Fred, the Bryz deal out of Anaheim was a promise Burke made to the 'tender. He was told there would be an attempt to move him and if not he'd be put on waivers so he could get the starting job he wanted and at the time, likely deserved.

Burke was hoping for a scenario like what Clam outlined, a team needing a #1 due to injury/poor performance, but couldn't get a deal done.
Over the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone or anything.

I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.
User avatar
Topper
CC Legend
 
Posts: 4826
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 8:11 pm
Location: Earth, most days.

Re: Patience: Gillis is doing the right thing.

Postby Fred » Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:16 pm

Topper wrote:Fred, the Bryz deal out of Anaheim was a promise Burke made to the 'tender. He was told there would be an attempt to move him and if not he'd be put on waivers so he could get the starting job he wanted and at the time, likely deserved.

Burke was hoping for a scenario like what Clam outlined, a team needing a #1 due to injury/poor performance, but couldn't get a deal done.



Give BB an A+ plus for integrity but a F on reading the market.
cheers
Fred
CC Legend
 
Posts: 3433
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 7:00 pm

Re: Patience: Gillis is doing the right thing.

Postby ClamRussel » Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:17 pm

Kind of like Chicago moving Hasek. Oops.
"Once a King, always a King"
-Mike Murphy
User avatar
ClamRussel
CC Legend
 
Posts: 3746
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2004 10:50 am
Location: New South Wales, Australia

Re: Patience: Gillis is doing the right thing.

Postby Hockey Widow » Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:37 pm

ClamRussel wrote:Hey Topper, great point about the contract. I probably should have stated it is seen as a negative by many....mostly in the media (parroting each other as per usual)...but I thought it was a brilliant (if not questionable) contract in terms of keeping the cap hit low and the fact Lu never would have played it out for a million per. Not sure if the CBA would mean the team would be on the hook for the remainder cap hit (on retirement) or not considering his age when signed etc. For a starter, the cap hit is completely reasonable. Its certainly a negative in terms of overall money owed ($48mill or so) if a team like the Devils was involved (so much uncertainty there).

Fred, the fact Burke says he is happy with his current goaltending situation should be enough for ownership and Leaf fans to set their hair on fire. Total goaltending fail. Some people clearly don't learn from their past mistakes. Perhaps he should consult more w/ Nonis on the issue and, more importantly, Francois Allaire.



I think when he retires the contract/cap disappear. He was young enough when signed for that to happen which again is one reason why it happened.
The only HW the Canucks need
User avatar
Hockey Widow
CC Legend
 
Posts: 3982
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 8:52 pm

Re: Patience: Gillis is doing the right thing.

Postby herb » Sat Jun 30, 2012 2:08 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:I think when he retires the contract/cap disappear. He was young enough when signed for that to happen which again is one reason why it happened.


My understanding is that contracts that are signed when the player is 35+ stay on the cap in the event that said player retires prior to the expiration of the contract.


The thing with Burke is that his ego is bigger than his freaking head.

He likely is gun shy since the debacle that was and still is the infamous Kessel trade. He also likely has a grudge against the Canucks in general after being let go, and the bad blood between him and Gillis doesn't help.

I still cannot understand how a guy like Luongo, who has a fair contract and is all but guaranteed to post 30-35 wins on almost any team, is apparently worth less than Phil Kessel was in Burke's eyes (two first round draft picks).

IMO, Luongo is worth a blue chip prospect or a high first round pick at the least. The Toronto media is saying that Gillis' asking price is too high, but I think the more likely scenario is that we are being low balled and Clam is right that Gillis shouldn't be in any rush to make a trade. In August when Tallon and Burke (and maybe others) are looking at their roster and get a bit nervous about their crap goaltending they may be a bit more willing to make a reasonable deal.
User avatar
herb
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 2180
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 3:17 pm
Location: Mars

Re: Patience: Gillis is doing the right thing.

Postby Topper » Sat Jun 30, 2012 2:14 pm

I suspect the CBA talks have a large effect on when a deal will be put in place. If things get ugly, the pressure of doing a deal in the immediate disappear for Burke and Talon and whoever else is interested. The tone of those negotiations will be known soon enough.

That said, if either GM truly covets Roberto, the sooner the deal is done, the less chance of someone else scooping him from under their nose is.
Over the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone or anything.

I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.
User avatar
Topper
CC Legend
 
Posts: 4826
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 8:11 pm
Location: Earth, most days.

Re: Patience: Gillis is doing the right thing.

Postby Reefer2 » Sat Jun 30, 2012 2:30 pm

I used to think his cap hit was high but if you look at the cap hits for the goalies he comes out #8, many above him I wouldn't touch with a 100' pole.

http://capgeek.com/leaders.php?type=CAP_HIT&position=G&limit=25
User avatar
Reefer2
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 1035
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:47 am

Re: Patience: Gillis is doing the right thing.

Postby Strangelove » Sat Jun 30, 2012 3:17 pm

ClamRussel wrote:Acquiring Luongo all but guarantees (the Leaves) at least make the playoffs. That means playoff revenue and franchise credibility. That equates to sizeable value. The Panthers are already there and all they need is an improvement in goal to be a contender in the east. That also has sizeable value. To think they have Gillis bent over a barrel is an insult. The media should get it out of their head as well.


Well most of "the media" are pro-leaf anticanucks... so there ya go.

It's true that acquiring Luongo virtually guarantees the Leaves playoffs (and each playoff game is worth million$).

Ditto with Panthers, because they know last season may well have been a fluke.

In the Panther's case they will also sell more regular season tickets if they land Luongo.

IMO Florida makes a lot more in ticket-sale$, concession$, and merchandi$ing than Lou's contract cost$ them.

This is why the ownership in Florida has already okayed the adding of said contract.

This is business amirite? :mex:
____
The Ring Leader
User avatar
Strangelove
CC Legend
 
Posts: 7398
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2004 1:13 pm

Re: Patience: Gillis is doing the right thing.

Postby Strangelove » Sat Jun 30, 2012 3:28 pm

ClamRussel wrote:Not sure if the CBA would mean the team would be on the hook for the remainder cap hit (on retirement)


Nope (part of the beauty of that contract).

ClamRussel wrote:For a starter, the cap hit is completely reasonable. Its certainly a negative in terms of overall money owed ($48mill or so) if a team like the Devils was involved (so much uncertainty there).


It's likely Lou plays 6 more seasons max ($40mil or so).

ClamRussel wrote:Fred, the fact Burke says he is happy with his current goaltending situation should be enough for ownership and Leaf fans to set their hair on fire.


I wouldn't piss on a Leaf fan if his hair was on fire... or if he was just stung by a jellyfish. :D

Burkie is bluffing.
____
The Ring Leader
User avatar
Strangelove
CC Legend
 
Posts: 7398
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2004 1:13 pm

Re: Patience: Gillis is doing the right thing.

Postby RoyalDude » Sat Jun 30, 2012 3:35 pm

Sorry Clambake, my patience is really running thin for Gillis. The guy is just too fucking boring when it comes to bold moves or at least adding some 'significant' pieces to make this his team instead of hiding behind the team that the previous management built. I'm sorry but re-signing Canuck players is not major feat, half the work is already done. Also, the middling acquirings of the Booths, Ballards, Higgins, Malhotra's, Berniers, Sundin's is just boring as shit and ain't cutting it. His drafting is dreadful. 5 drafts and still nothing to show for. I highly doubt Jensen is making the club this year.

I guarantee you Gillis played hardball in his pitch to Schultz cause if memory serves me correct, Gillis was highly critical of Nonis chasing of Fabian Brunnstrum whatever his name was.

What I would like from Gillis is some fucking gonads, some brass fucking balls. Make a fucking splash for fuck sakes and stop sitting on the fence. It's time for him to get all Holmgren like and make some real fucking deals. I ain't gonna get excited for the P.A. Parenteaus' of the world. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. The core of this team is fucking stale, it's to hack and slash and re-freshen the core of this team.

Sorry Clam, not on board with ya. Gillis is not doing the right thing. When the Sedins start fizzling in a year or two, when they are in that 33 year old range, weez in big trouble here. This team goes when the Sedin's go, what's replacing that? Kassian, Jensen, Gaunce, Schroeder? Um...no. Ain't happening.
"I just want to say one word to you. Just one word. Are you listening? - Plastics." - The Graduate
User avatar
RoyalDude
CC Legend
 
Posts: 4513
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:36 pm
Location: Vancouver

Next

Return to Canucks Corner Chat

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 1 guest