Farhan's $0.05 - Canucks might have to deal Corey Schneider

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Farhan's $0.05 - Canucks might have to deal Corey Schneider

Postby Farhan Lalji » Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:55 pm

Farhan's $0.05 - Canucks might have to deal Corey Schneider

I said it a few months ago, and I'll say it again.

If Corey Schneider is only 5-10% better than Luongo, but can fetch a significantly higher return that Lou, then it might be worth trading Schneider instead. Period. Let's face it - if this past weekend showed us anything, it's that 29 other teams are not speaking the same language as Mike Gillis.......or Columbus' GM for that matter. Both Vancouver and Columbus are expecting enormous returns for Luongo and Nash respectively, but it doesn't look like it's going to happen. It's looking more and more like the Canucks will have to do one of the following:

1) Trade Luongo and take on a less-than-desirable contract themselves (my "realistic" preference........I say we inquire about Brian Campbell. Take on Campbell's contract, and make up for the loss of Erhoff).

2) Trade Luongo for a player/prospect that has some warts himself.......but still has potential (i.e. someone that is like Luke Schenn......I say 'like' Luke Schenn since Schenn was traded to Philly already) + a possible late round pick.

3) Trade Luongo for a draft pick as a pure salary dump and then use that freed up cap space to sign Schneider and take a major run at Parise or whoever.

4) Trade Corey Schneider as trade bait instead..........and get whatever it is that you are expecting from a Luongo deal.

Unfortuantely - here is what WON'T happen with Luongo by the looks of things:

1) We won't be getting a superstar player in return (i.e. Nash, Ryan, etc.).
2) We won't be getting a top notch prospect or draft pick (i.e. Jake Gardiner, or any of Florida's top prospects).

At this point, I'm just wondering if we're better off trading Schneider..........and seeing what's atleast available.

Luongo has his warts, but he's still an amazing goalie that is good enough to win with. So what if the guy never lived up to expecations? He may not be a modern day version of Martin Brodeur, Patrick Roy, or Dominik Hasek, but he's probably worthy of being called a modern day Curtis Joseph........which is still pretty damn good and is still better than what most others have.

WE CAN WIN WITH ROBERTO LUONGO PROVIDED THAT THE TEAM IN FRONT HOLDS IT END OF THE BARGAIN.

Luongo is never going to be the guy that will steal a game for us when it matters most (or atleast what he did in the 2007 playoffs), but he IS still going to be the guy that will make a good team great..........and if the team in front is holding it's end, then Luongo will play like an elite goalie.

Farhan's conclusion: Unless the Canucks have an amazing chance at taking a run at Parise with freed up cap space (by trading Luongo as a salary dump), my recommendation is to consider trading Schneider now. Whether it's stock piling on high end prospects (i.e. Florida's top prospects), or taking a stab at Rick Nash or Bobby Ryan, Corey Schneider is the guy that will be needed to get something like that.

However - if Gillis is hell bent on moving Luongo, I say we get Brian Campbell if possible. Campbell's salary sucks, but he would easily replace the loss of Erhoff.
Last edited by Farhan Lalji on Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Farhan's $0.05 - Canucks might have to deal Corey Schnei

Postby SKYO » Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:58 pm

I'll only accept Weber or Godbranson if CS is traded.

/thread
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Re: Farhan's $0.05 - Canucks might have to deal Corey Schnei

Postby Farhan Lalji » Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:07 pm

SKYO wrote:I'll only accept Weber or Godbranson if CS is traded.

/thread


You won't accept Bobby Ryan or Rick Nash?

I know Godbranson's name has come up a few times, but there's no way Florida is going to give him up......even if Schneider is involved in said package. Godbranson is almost a shoe-in to be an elite defenseman in the league.

And when I say 'elite', I mean 'elite'. Not like Oil_mj from oilfans.com in the year 2000 when he predicted that Eric Brewer was going to be the next Chris Pronger and possible Ray Bourque, LOL.

Here's the thing:

Whatever we THINK we can get with Schneider or Luongo, we have to take that value and decrease it by about 30%.........for what 29 other teams think their true value is.

We won't be able to get nearly as much for Schneider as we all hope, but we'd still get way more than we'd get for Luongo from the looks of it.

I think Bobby Ryan can be had to be perfectly honest.
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Re: Farhan's $0.05 - Canucks might have to deal Corey Schnei

Postby Farhan Lalji » Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:28 pm

I can't remember who said this (Blob McKenzie? Royaldude?), but I think I recall one of these guys talking about the availability of Evander Kane?

Corey Schneider straight up for Evander Kane, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

I think someone else (Potatoe?) mentioned Andrew Ladd. Ladd is a great player, but I'm not sure if it would be a good idea considering his past history with Kesler. That could be another Linden/Messier situation right there.
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Re: Farhan's $0.05 - Canucks might have to deal Corey Schnei

Postby Hockey Widow » Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:14 pm

Farhan don't worry. The plan all along is to make a trade that makes the most hockey sense for the Canucks. I think a lot go GM's want Cory so they low ball for Luongo. But if Cory were taken off the market the offers for Luongo might get better. In any event MG will make the best deal possible.

The Canucks love Cory and want desperately to find a way to keep him but if they have to trade him they will. And none of us really know what is in Luongo's mind through all of this. He does have a say in what happens. I know I am guilty of spreading a lot of Luongo rumours but the bottom line is that none of us really have any idea what is going on behind the scenes.
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Re: Farhan's $0.05 - Canucks might have to deal Corey Schnei

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:48 pm

Sigh..... Gillis doesn't HAVE to trade Schneider.

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Re: Farhan's $0.05 - Canucks might have to deal Corey Schnei

Postby Lancer » Sun Jun 24, 2012 4:15 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:Sigh..... Gillis doesn't HAVE to trade Schneider.

This thread smells like butt gravy.


They don't HAVE to trade either of them. They SHOULD trade one of them. I honestly think Gillis isn't bluffing when he says he would be quite happy having both of them in Camp come Autumn. I don't think it will get that far, and even if it did all it would take is one team to have a bad losing streak in October for things to get done in a hurry and by then the price might get even steeper. You think the other GMs don't know that? You can't tell me that Burkie hasn't tucked back a couple of tums at the thought of going 3-7 to start the season with Reimer and Scrivens posting a combined .898 sv% and a 2.97 GAA.

I honestly think Gillis wasn't going to Pittsburgh with the goal of trading either goalie. If he got somebody who would offer him the moon then great, hence why it looked like he was asking for the moon. The first order of business is sorting out Schneider and then you'll see the true market for either goalie.

All that said, the key to me is what's between Luongo's ears. If his head is not where it should be, it doesn't matter what the market for him is, deal him instead of Schneider.
Last edited by Lancer on Sun Jun 24, 2012 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Farhan's $0.05 - Canucks might have to deal Corey Schnei

Postby Meds » Sun Jun 24, 2012 5:21 pm

If I'm the GM on the other end of a Lou/Schneider trade, then I'm arguing that.....

1) Luongo has a bit of a long contract and has had a couple playoff meltdowns, as well as some questionable regular season play at times over the last few seasons, particularly the most recent one. So my return to Gillis has to be tempered due to that.

2) Schneider really looks like he's the goods. BUT, he barely has a single season worth of regular season games under his belt, and only 10 games of playoff experience (if you go by minutes played and not GP), and while his playoff numbers this last spring were AMAZING, he still hasn't played under heavy pressure. So I can't give up too much proven talent, certainly not a Weber or Kane.

The market is there for both guys, don't get me wrong, but I think that those are the two points that Gillis is running into when fielding offers and seeing who and what is available.
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Re: Farhan's $0.05 - Canucks might have to deal Corey Schnei

Postby Farhan Lalji » Sun Jun 24, 2012 5:24 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:Farhan don't worry. The plan all along is to make a trade that makes the most hockey sense for the Canucks. I think a lot go GM's want Cory so they low ball for Luongo. But if Cory were taken off the market the offers for Luongo might get better. In any event MG will make the best deal possible.

The Canucks love Cory and want desperately to find a way to keep him but if they have to trade him they will. And none of us really know what is in Luongo's mind through all of this. He does have a say in what happens. I know I am guilty of spreading a lot of Luongo rumours but the bottom line is that none of us really have any idea what is going on behind the scenes.


Great points as usual HW. Time will obviously tell but I just don't that the Canucks are going to get a superstar player or a top level prospect in return for Luongo. To me, it's looking more and more like the Canucks will either have to trade Lou for a 2nd tier type prospect (salary dump) and maybe a draft pick..........OR, we'll have to take on a less-than-desirable contract ourselves.
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Re: Farhan's $0.05 - Canucks might have to deal Corey Schnei

Postby Farhan Lalji » Sun Jun 24, 2012 5:29 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:Sigh..... Gillis doesn't HAVE to trade Schneider.

This thread smells like butt gravy.


Gillis obviously doesn't "have to" trade Schneider..........but if it's a superstar or a top tier prospect that Gillis is seeking, then I think it will have to involve Schneider. Maybe I'm wrong for believing this, but I think if Luongo was capable of landing us a superstar player or a top notch prospect, it would have happened already......given how teams such as Toronto are extremely desperate for top notch goaltending.

Thanks for using the term 'butt gravy' by the way. Not going to be eating dinner now because of you. :mad:
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Re: Farhan's $0.05 - Canucks might have to deal Corey Schnei

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Sun Jun 24, 2012 5:43 pm

Farhan Lalji wrote:
Thanks for using the term 'butt gravy' by the way. Not going to be eating dinner now because of you. :mad:


Should I have said swass instead ???? :?
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Re: Farhan's $0.05 - Canucks might have to deal Corey Schnei

Postby Farhan Lalji » Sun Jun 24, 2012 5:59 pm

Meds wrote:If I'm the GM on the other end of a Lou/Schneider trade, then I'm arguing that.....

1) Luongo has a bit of a long contract and has had a couple playoff meltdowns, as well as some questionable regular season play at times over the last few seasons, particularly the most recent one. So my return to Gillis has to be tempered due to that.


Unfortunately, it's these reasons that will most likely prevent the Canucks from getting a superstar player or a top tier prospect for Luongo. Length of Contract + Playoff warts + age = Hesitation. Now having said that - there IS a market for Luongo (as you said), but based on the events (or non events) from this past weekend, I think we'll either have to trade for a 'tainted' prospect (i.e. a Luke Schenn type guy), or a guy that has an undesirable contract himself.

2) Schneider really looks like he's the goods. BUT, he barely has a single season worth of regular season games under his belt, and only 10 games of playoff experience (if you go by minutes played and not GP), and while his playoff numbers this last spring were AMAZING, he still hasn't played under heavy pressure. So I can't give up too much proven talent, certainly not a Weber or Kane.


True but it's all about 'probability' of being a franchise guy. By that logic, Godbranson wouldn't fetch much in a trade either. A team like Columbus for instance is in major rebuild mode. A guy like Schneider would be a PERFECT guy to build around......as opposed to a 33/34 year old.

The market is there for both guys, don't get me wrong, but I think that those are the two points that Gillis is running into when fielding offers and seeing who and what is available.


Agreed. I guess what I'm saying, is that Luongo most likely won't be that guy that will fetch us a superstar or a top tier prospect. A package involving Schneider is the only thing that will land us that.

Waiting to get that type of return on Luongo might be pointless. Either trade Luongo for a 2nd tier prospect and then use the freed up cap space to sign Schneider/make a run for Parise.............OR, trade Luongo for another less-than-desirable contract that fills a positional need (i.e. Brian Campbell).
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Re: Farhan's $0.05 - Canucks might have to deal Corey Schnei

Postby CrzyCanuck » Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:09 pm

I think if Cornuck has collected all GM's nickels he'd be able to buy the Canucks already. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Farhan's $0.05 - Canucks might have to deal Corey Schnei

Postby Farhan Lalji » Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:13 pm

CrzyCanuck wrote:I think if Cornuck has collected all GM's nickels he'd be able to buy the Canucks already. :lol: :lol: :lol:


lol, good point.

But seriously..............make a decision in net already.

-Trade Lou for a less-than-desirable contract or a 2nd tier prospect (to then which you use freed up cap space to do whatever.....like signing Schneider and taking a run at Parise).

OR

-Trade Schneider in a package that lands us that big fish.

Both goalies are good enough to win with.
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Re: Farhan's $0.05 - Canucks might have to deal Corey Schnei

Postby Meds » Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:20 pm

Farhan Lalji wrote:True but it's all about 'probability' of being a franchise guy. By that logic, Godbranson wouldn't fetch much in a trade either. A team like Columbus for instance is in major rebuild mode. A guy like Schneider would be a PERFECT guy to build around......as opposed to a 33/34 year old.

The market is there for both guys, don't get me wrong, but I think that those are the two points that Gillis is running into when fielding offers and seeing who and what is available.


Agreed. I guess what I'm saying, is that Luongo most likely won't be that guy that will fetch us a superstar or a top tier prospect. A package involving Schneider is the only thing that will land us that.

Waiting to get that type of return on Luongo might be pointless. Either trade Luongo for a 2nd tier prospect and then use the freed up cap space to sign Schneider/make a run for Parise.............OR, trade Luongo for another less-than-desirable contract that fills a positional need (i.e. Brian Campbell).


Obviously it all depends on where Luongo is willing to go and the state of those teams. I think it's a safe bet to say that Lou is wanting to go back east, and that he wants to go to a team that can contend in the next few years. Whether that team is a contender now or one that becomes a contender by adding him doesn't matter at this point. Lou won't go to a rebuilding team, so that means that if Gillis is looking at a deal for Nash, then Schneider is the guy that goes. If it is a deal with Tampa, Toronto, or Florida, then chances are better that Luongo is the guy on the move. In the case of Toronto you have to think that Burke is getting ready to make a move for something big, he just moved Gustavsson and Schenn and brought in Van Riemsdyk, so I wonder if he's looking at making some significant changes there.

I think that they actually bring the same return depending on where you shop.

Lou brings something big in the terms of prospect and something servicable in the terms of roster player if shopping with a team that is looking to win now with an upgrade in net.

Schneider brings something big in terms of roster player and something questionable in terms of prospect if shopping with a rebuilder that is looking for a franchise goaltender of the future.
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