What will Cory Schneider sign for?

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Re: What will Cory Schneider sign for?

Postby Tciso » Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:31 pm

herb wrote:I think the bigger question is if Luongo is traded, do you sign Schneider to a short term 2-3 year deal or a longer term deal?


3-4 is my preference. That gives Lack a shot to be the backup, and possibly a starter in 3 to 4 years if he pans out, and Schneider flops. And, it puts the next contract in someone else's lap, if you are GMMG.
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Re: What will Cory Schneider sign for?

Postby SKYO » Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:07 pm

ODB wrote:I don't get why everyone thinks Schneider has so much control. Sign for X amount for X number of years or... go fucking play in Siberia (better known in NHL circles as Columbus)

GMMG can trade his fucking ass if Ginger gets stupid.

By all accounts CoHo (his camp?) got stupid... Bu-bye!

Gillis calls the shots.

:thumbs:

However MG likes CS a heck of a lot more than you do!

I think the draft will be the telling tale on who will step up to get a Canuck goalie and if they will pony up the assets to acquire one of our awesome goalies.
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Re: What will Cory Schneider sign for?

Postby CrzyCanuck » Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:34 am

Yeah I also don't think Schneider side has much leverage.

It's not like we only have Schneider, we have Luongo too btw. We can afford to trade either for decent returns.

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Re: What will Cory Schneider sign for?

Postby Zedlee » Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:46 am

CrzyCanuck wrote:Yeah I also don't think Schneider side has much leverage.

It's not like we only have Schneider, we have Luongo too btw. We can afford to trade either for decent returns.



True that the Canucks can trade either guy.

But CS does not have to agree to a LT deal with the Canucks, unless the money is right. He can simply sign a one year deal and become a UFA on July 1, 2013.

THAT is leverage.
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Re: What will Cory Schneider sign for?

Postby wafflecombine » Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:19 pm

I disagree. That's a signal that Cory wants to be the centerpiece of a major trade deadline deal.

If he legitimately wants to stay, Cory will aim for a 3-4 year deal. If he doesn't he'll bring a good return on the market. Its one of the hazards of a 1a/1b situation where the former 1a has a NTC/NMC.

Interesting times.
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Re: What will Cory Schneider sign for?

Postby Meds » Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:20 pm

Southern_Canuck wrote:Your numbers and comparisons are a little off...

Ward played out a 3 year, $2.667M 2nd contract before signing his 6 year, $6.3M contract and was the starter before signing the $2.667M cap hit contract.

Niemi was on his 4th NHL contract and was 28 when he received his 4 year, $3.8M cap hit contract last summer. (He also has a Stanley Cup on his resume.)

Fleury had just started every game in the Playoffs in 2007/08 at age 23, taking his team to the Stanley Cup Finals, and falling to Detroit. That's when he got his big contract beginning 2008/09. Then he won 16 playoff games the next year.

DiPietro - OK, I'm with you on this one.

Mason started 54 games in 2010/11, and looked like the real deal - won the Calder Trophy for NHL Rookie of the Year - so I'll forgive Howson for that signing. Anyway, only a $2.9M cap hit contract that is over next summer.

S_C


First off, I did forget to mention in my original post that those figures were salaries and not cap hits. My bad.

Thanks for the reminder on Ward, I knew that but forgot.

Niemi was still not worth what he was given. He played one decent season, and a slightly better playoffs, behind one of the most stacked teams in recent history. We all saw what he was before and what happened after he moved on to San Jose.

Fleury has been pretty weak since the Penguins won the Cup. And he has never had the great numbers that you would expect from a $5M starter. Even more bewildering is that his playoff stats are actually worse than his regular season stats. His only really good year in the playoffs was the year that Pittsburgh lost to Detroit in the final.

Mason is actually a perfect example for my point. It's not that I hold a GM responsible for putting money into a guy who just had an amazing season, I was just pointing out that with goaltenders, you need to spend wisely and if you are going to go big, you need to go big on the guy who has consistently put up the numbers, not a guy who has been mediocre at best and then stood on his head for one season or was the beneficiary of a great team in front of him. That's all.
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Re: What will Cory Schneider sign for?

Postby Farhan Lalji » Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:30 pm

Good points about Schneider possibly following down the same path as Ward/Fleury, etc., but my 'gut' tells me that this won't happen.

I think Schneider is the real deal, and is already as good as Quick/Lundquist and that goalie from Boston that just recently fucked off to find faith/family/fig newtons.
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Re: What will Cory Schneider sign for?

Postby Meds » Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:35 pm

Farhan Lalji wrote:Good points about Schneider possibly following down the same path as Ward/Fleury, etc., but my 'gut' tells me that this won't happen.

I think Schneider is the real deal, and is already as good as Quick/Lundquist and that goalie from Boston that just recently fucked off to find faith/family/fig newtons.


I actually don't think Schneider is going to flop. I just hope Gillis approaches this deal with a degree of caution and we don't end up with another Loungotross of a contract on our hands.
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Re: What will Cory Schneider sign for?

Postby ODB » Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:43 pm

SKYO wrote:
ODB wrote:I don't get why everyone thinks Schneider has so much control. Sign for X amount for X number of years or... go fucking play in Siberia (better known in NHL circles as Columbus)

GMMG can trade his fucking ass if Ginger gets stupid.

By all accounts CoHo (his camp?) got stupid... Bu-bye!

Gillis calls the shots.

:thumbs:

However MG likes CS a heck of a lot more than you do!

I think the draft will be the telling tale on who will step up to get a Canuck goalie and if they will pony up the assets to acquire one of our awesome goalies.


My point isn't about liking or not liking the player. People have said things like Schneider holds all the cards. That's simply not true. Gillis holds all the cards. Luongo is signed for ten more years. Gillis doesn't have to trade Luongo as Luongo has no choice but to honor his contract. That or retire...

I'm not suggesting Schneider is being an asshole. I'm just saying if he were to "act" like he's in control, he would quickly realize he is not. Both sides realize they have to be reasonable. Schneider won’t accept 2mil and won’t demand over 4mil. They'll find common ground!
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Re: What will Cory Schneider sign for?

Postby Meds » Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:58 pm

ODB wrote:
SKYO wrote:
ODB wrote:I don't get why everyone thinks Schneider has so much control. Sign for X amount for X number of years or... go fucking play in Siberia (better known in NHL circles as Columbus)

GMMG can trade his fucking ass if Ginger gets stupid.

By all accounts CoHo (his camp?) got stupid... Bu-bye!

Gillis calls the shots.

:thumbs:

However MG likes CS a heck of a lot more than you do!

I think the draft will be the telling tale on who will step up to get a Canuck goalie and if they will pony up the assets to acquire one of our awesome goalies.


My point isn't about liking or not liking the player. People have said things like Schneider holds all the cards. That's simply not true. Gillis holds all the cards. Luongo is signed for ten more years. Gillis doesn't have to trade Luongo as Luongo has no choice but to honor his contract. That or retire...

I'm not suggesting Schneider is being an asshole. I'm just saying if he were to "act" like he's in control, he would quickly realize he is not. Both sides realize they have to be reasonable. Schneider won’t accept 2mil and won’t demand over 4mil. They'll find common ground!


I think it should be qualified that Gillis holds all the cards ONLY if he (and ownership and coaching staff) doesn't care which direction the team goes in the crease. However, if HW's "What I've Heard" OP is accurate (generally is), then the front office is leaning heavily towards Schneider and really want to see him succeed here in Vancouver rather than somewhere else. In that case Schneider (or rather his agent) holds a decent hand at the negotiating table.

Moreover, I think that Gillis is going to have to be careful here, because if he signs Schneider to a new deal, and then suddenly can't move Lou because of some unforseen circumstance.....well that's a problem. If he moves Lou before he signs Schneider, well then Schneider suddenly has a 4 of a kind and GMMG had better hope they aren't higher than his 4.....

ODB, I think you seriously underestimate just how much control a marquis RFA actually has come contract year. Just look at a few teams who have been unable to hang onto talent because talent wants to be somewhere else. If Schneider wants out of Van he signs one year and he's gone by trade deadline. Schneider only loses some control if he is dead set on staying with the Canucks.....and we know he's not because he has said he wants to get a shot at being a number one, he's just not sure where that will be.
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Re: What will Cory Schneider sign for?

Postby Strangelove » Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:03 pm

dbr wrote:The max should hopefully be Jaroslav Halak's four year, $3.75m per contract. If you work that out to a dollar amount equal to the same relative cap hit as Halak's when he signed (I'm way too lazy to do this for the other comparables) then you are looking at about $4.5m per season.

That should be the high water mark for Cory on a deal where he gives up three UFA seasons, IMO.


Good call Dave. Halak comes closest to Schneider RE numbers in the AHL & NHL at the time of his signing.

The goalies listed in the OP don't come close number-wise nor pedigree-wise.

Actually Schneider ranks higher than Halak pedigree-wise as he has dominated at every level...

There's no need for either side to play any games because a fair salary is fairly evident

(I think you adjusted too much for inflation though you lazy SOB).

I think it is fairly obvious Schneider would sign a 4 year (or so) contract for about $4mil per. Therefore, sometime before July 1 Luongo is traded, followed by Gillis signing Schneids. OR Gillis trades Schneider before July 1 to a team whose GM knows Schneider would sign a 4 year (or so) contract for about $4mil per (pretty sure all GMs know roughly what a fair deal would be).

Canucks COULD keep both if there were no fair offers, but it’s the perfect summer (supply & demand) to be trading a Top 10 goalie so I just can’t see it. Keep in mind that if HW’s report that Gillis looking to make a bold move July 1 is true, he must have a deal for Lou/Schneids already in place (can’t be makin too bold of moves with $9.5mil tied up in goaltending methinks).

The amount of money Schneider will sign for isn’t the question imesho, it’s which goaltender is dealt from your Vancouver Canucks within the next 2 weeks - prolly sooner than later.
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Re: What will Cory Schneider sign for?

Postby dbr » Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:53 pm

Strangelove wrote:(I think you adjusted too much for inflation though you lazy SOB).


If I remember correctly it came to about $4.438m, but I figured I'd keep it simple - one decimal point. You've got to know your audience, and all that. :look:
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Re: What will Cory Schneider sign for?

Postby ukcanuck » Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:04 pm

Strangelove wrote:
dbr wrote:The max should hopefully be Jaroslav Halak's four year, $3.75m per contract. If you work that out to a dollar amount equal to the same relative cap hit as Halak's when he signed (I'm way too lazy to do this for the other comparables) then you are looking at about $4.5m per season.

That should be the high water mark for Cory on a deal where he gives up three UFA seasons, IMO.



The amount of money Schneider will sign for isn’t the question imesho, it’s which goaltender is dealt from your Vancouver Canucks within the next 2 weeks - prolly sooner than later.



The question, or more accurately, the concern I have is not whether Schneider and Halak are salary comparable but rather that Halak's trade value and Schneider trade value are also comparable. One or two Lars Ellers and Ian Shultz-ish players coming back doesn't really feel like a blockbuster improvement for the Canucks...
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Re: What will Cory Schneider sign for?

Postby Strangelove » Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:11 pm

dbr wrote:
Strangelove wrote:(I think you adjusted too much for inflation though you lazy SOB).


If I remember correctly it came to about $4.438m, but I figured I'd keep it simple - one decimal point. You've got to know your audience, and all that. :look:


Truth is I'm much more lazy than you Dave, but then hey it's been a long day and I've had a few.

I roughed it out to about $4.25mil but I'd like to take a look at that after coffee tomorrow. :drink:
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Re: What will Cory Schneider sign for?

Postby Strangelove » Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:16 pm

ukcanuck wrote:The question, or more accurately, the concern I have is not whether Schneider and Halak are salary comparable but rather that Halak's trade value and Schneider trade value are also comparable. One or two Lars Ellers and Ian Shultz-ish players coming back doesn't really feel like a blockbuster improvement for the Canucks...


Well Eller was rated quite high at the time... and just fucking died in Montreal.

BUT, like I keep saying it's all about supply & demand.

Best summer in a long LONG while to be trading a Top 10 goalie says I.
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