Gillis. Who is He?

Welcome to the main forum of our site. Anything and everything to do with the Vancouver Canucks is dicussed and debated here.

Moderator: Referees

Re: Gillis. Who is He?

Postby RoyalDude » Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:10 pm

Potatoe1 wrote: on the aggregate GMMG has been absolutely fantastic in his 4 years.


Fantillyastic? In 4 Years?

Let us compare, truly Fantillyastic management in a short period.

Brian Burke took over a struggling Anaheim Mighty Ducks team in June 2005 after the Lockout year. The previous year to that the Ducks finished 12th in Western Conference standings. First order of business for Burke was he signed UFA Scott Neidermeyer on August 4th 2005, the following day Burkie signed UFA Teemu Selanne who was playing in Finland after playing in San Jose. Selanne led the Ducks in scoring that year for Burke with 40 goals and 50 assists for 90 points. Now, I mean we could compare these two UFA signings to the Gillis acquisition of Keith Ballard? and the Selanne signing to the Sundin signing here. Who wins? Burke. Who is the fantillyastic looser here? Gillis.

Let us continue on to another key and fantillyastic acquisition and merger by the great Burkie. On November 15th he trades Sergei Federov who was pretty much phoning it in at this stage of his career collecting his massive millions for Francoise Beauchemin and Tyler Wright. Beauchemin was another catalyst Defenseman on the Stanley Cup Winning Burke Mighty Ducks.

Let us continue...In Burke's first year as General Manager of your Anaheim Mighty Ducks the Ducks went all the way to the Semi-Finals, the Championship of the Western Conference only to lose to the Edmonton Oilers. Not bad for a first year GM of the Mighty Ducks

Fast forward to season 2006-07, Burkies 2nd year as GM of the Ducks. Before the beginning of this history making season for the Mighty Ducks, Burke pulled yet again, another amazing acquisition, probably the most important one outside of maybe Neidermeyer, Selanne and Beauchemin. He trades Ladislave Smid and Joffrey Lupul and a 1st round pick for Chris Pronger of the Edmonton Oilers.

I don't need to remind you what happened to Burkies Mighty Ducks that year but in case you forgot, they won the Stanley Cup. Yes, in 2 short years as GM of the Mighty Ducks, a team that struggled the previous season Burkie took over, they win the Stanley Cup.

Now that my friend is fantastic GM'ing. Those 4 KEY trades and signings blow the fucking socks off anything Gillis has done in his 4 years, turning on 5 as GM to your Vancouver Canucks hockey team.

So please sir, do not tell me that Gillis has done a fantastic job in his 5 years as General Manager of this hockey team. 42 years and still no Stanley Cup. The group of players gift wrapped by previous mgmt for Gillis have been our best chance at finally winning the trophy and Gillis fucking blows it. What this organization needed from Gillis was what the Ducks needed from Burke. Burke saw that he had some very good young pieces to build a championship team around, ie Getzlaf, Perry and Kunitz. You want a proper shut down line, the Moen, Pahlsson Rob Neidermeyer line is how you properly build a shut down line. Burke is the man, Gillis is still wearing diapers. Case closed
"I just want to say one word to you. Just one word. Are you listening? - Plastics." - The Graduate
User avatar
RoyalDude
CC Legend
 
Posts: 4291
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:36 pm
Location: Vancouver

Re: Gillis. Who is He?

Postby Todd Bersnoozi » Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:25 pm

I think Burkie was a bit lucky in Anaheim. He did a great job to get the right pieces to make the team a cup winner, but he inherited a team with 2 great young players to build around (Getzlaf & Perry) and a solid goalie was there too (Giggy). Thus he had the money to go out and get some some good players like Selanne and Niedermayer and he had the the cap space and prospects to trade for a top D-man like Pronger.

I think Burke was in a similar position to Gillis in that they both inherited teams with alot of pieces. I will say this though, where Burke was able to take what he inherited and turn it into a cup winner by adding the right pieces, Gillis hasn't been able to take what he inherited and add the right pieces for a cup. He was damn close, but no cigar. U look at what burke added in big names like Nieds, Pronger, Selanne; Gillis added a few decent guys in Ehrhoff, Hammer, and Mats (only 1 year in tail in of career), but they do no compare to the talent and stature of Nieds, Prong, Selanne. I would also say Gillis inherited a better lineup, most of which he kept in tact and has not done much to change (Sedins, Kes, Edler, Burr, Bieska, Lou, etc). He even had Ohlund and Willie, but couldn't hold on to them.


RoyalDude wrote:Fantillyastic? In 4 Years?

Let us compare, truly Fantillyastic management in a short period.

Brian Burke took over a struggling Anaheim Mighty Ducks team in June 2005 after the Lockout year. The previous year to that the Ducks finished 12th in Western Conference standings. First order of business for Burke was he signed UFA Scott Neidermeyer on August 4th 2005, the following day Burkie signed UFA Teemu Selanne who was playing in Finland after playing in San Jose. Selanne led the Ducks in scoring that year for Burke with 40 goals and 50 assists for 90 points. Now, I mean we could compare these two UFA signings to the Gillis acquisition of Keith Ballard? and the Selanne signing to the Sundin signing here. Who wins? Burke. Who is the fantillyastic looser here? Gillis.
User avatar
Todd Bersnoozi
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 1190
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 4:14 pm

Re: Gillis. Who is He?

Postby Mondi » Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:26 pm

The Canucks do not have and never have had anyone comparable Pronger, Neidermayer or Selanne (save perhaps Bure).

Whether Gillis had the opportunity to bring in 1 or 3 generational-type talents is an open question. And not something you can guess at. But to assert that Gillis is in diapers is to ignore that he did with the Canucks things Burke never and without 3 (THREE) future hall of famers in the lineup.

Given that Getzlaf and Perry were on entry level deals when Burke got a hold of them whereas the Twins were not, you are comparing apples to oranges.

Fuck, I could win the Cup if all I had to do with role Niedmeyer and Pronger (in their prime) over the boards.

Dude you give Gillis a tough go of it, he's been a decent GM. And, I refuse to believe that because Burke drafted the Twins in 1999 he deserves (much) credit for their explosion in 2009. Sure he had something to do with it, but he was a long time removed before they started playing like (regular season) champions.

With that being said, most of Gillis' acquisitions have been useless or near to it. Though the good ones have been really good.
User avatar
Mondi
CC 1st Team All-Star
 
Posts: 753
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:02 pm

Re: Gillis. Who is He?

Postby Meds » Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:55 pm

RoyalDude wrote:
Potatoe1 wrote: on the aggregate GMMG has been absolutely fantastic in his 4 years.


Fantillyastic? In 4 Years?

Let us compare, truly Fantillyastic management in a short period.

Brian Burke took over a struggling Anaheim Mighty Ducks team in June 2005 after the Lockout year. The previous year to that the Ducks finished 12th in Western Conference standings. First order of business for Burke was he signed UFA Scott Neidermeyer on August 4th 2005, the following day Burkie signed UFA Teemu Selanne who was playing in Finland after playing in San Jose. Selanne led the Ducks in scoring that year for Burke with 40 goals and 50 assists for 90 points.


The only reason Burke was able to sign Scott Neidermayer was because Scott wanted to play with his brother Rob, who was already a Duck. No Rob, no Scott. When you have one of the NHL's premier defenseman sitting out there as an UFA simply waiting for a contract offer that will let him play with his brother, that isn't great GM'ing, that's just a gift wrapped present. There weren't any other teams in the hunt for Scott because Scott wasn't going anywhere that didn't have Rob. I suppose someone could have traded for Rob at the draft and then Burke woulda been screwed.....now that woulda been a great GM move. As for Selanne, well he has a soft spot for Anaheim, that one was a bit of a chance on Burke's part, but then again, Selanne is a proven performer who has plays well below his age.[/quote]

RD wrote:Now, I mean we could compare these two UFA signings to the Gillis acquisition of Keith Ballard? and the Selanne signing to the Sundin signing here. Who wins? Burke. Who is the fantillyastic looser here? Gillis.


You're an idiot RD. Selanne and Neidermayer were both UFA's. Ballard was an aquisition via trade and Sundin held out and debated for half the season. Selanne wanted to play, and as I said already, Neidermayer wanted to play with Rob. There weren't really any other UFA's worth going after at the time that Ballard was acquired, and Sundin was the most sought after player on the market when Gillis went after him.

RD wrote:Let us continue on to another key and fantillyastic acquisition and merger by the great Burkie. On November 15th he trades Sergei Federov who was pretty much phoning it in at this stage of his career collecting his massive millions for Francoise Beauchemin and Tyler Wright. Beauchemin was another catalyst Defenseman on the Stanley Cup Winning Burke Mighty Ducks.


And who has Gillis had in his pocket with the that he could possibly trade just based on the guy's name alone? Right now he has Luongo. Before this he has had nobody, who was mailing it in, that carried the same currency value as Fedorov. Again, Burke ends up inheriting something that he can utilize with little work.

RD wrote:Let us continue...In Burke's first year as General Manager of your Anaheim Mighty Ducks the Ducks went all the way to the Semi-Finals, the Championship of the Western Conference only to lose to the Edmonton Oilers. Not bad for a first year GM of the Mighty Ducks


Lost to the Oilers? That's brutal. They were riding Roloson and had a shit team that just got lucky.

RD wrote:Fast forward to season 2006-07, Burkies 2nd year as GM of the Ducks. Before the beginning of this history making season for the Mighty Ducks, Burke pulled yet again, another amazing acquisition, probably the most important one outside of maybe Neidermeyer, Selanne and Beauchemin. He trades Ladislave Smid and Joffrey Lupul and a 1st round pick for Chris Pronger of the Edmonton Oilers.

I don't need to remind you what happened to Burkies Mighty Ducks that year but in case you forgot, they won the Stanley Cup. Yes, in 2 short years as GM of the Mighty Ducks, a team that struggled the previous season Burkie took over, they win the Stanley Cup.


OK, so Burke see's that Pronger wants out of Edmonton. Pronger then provides a list of teams he is willing to go to and the Oilers accomodate him. Pronger pretty much chose Anaheim. He looked at the roster, saw the style of coaching that Carlyle was bringing to the table, knew he could goon it up and be praised for it, and the Oiler's got the best deal they could out of Burke. So again, how is Burke getting credit for this? It's like saying, "Bravo! Well done Doug Wilson. You got Heatley.....oh right, you were the only place Heatley was willing to go."

RD wrote:Now that my friend is fantastic GM'ing. Those 4 KEY trades and signings blow the fucking socks off anything Gillis has done in his 4 years, turning on 5 as GM to your Vancouver Canucks hockey team.

So please sir, do not tell me that Gillis has done a fantastic job in his 5 years as General Manager of this hockey team. 42 years and still no Stanley Cup. The group of players gift wrapped by previous mgmt for Gillis have been our best chance at finally winning the trophy and Gillis fucking blows it. What this organization needed from Gillis was what the Ducks needed from Burke. Burke saw that he had some very good young pieces to build a championship team around, ie Getzlaf, Perry and Kunitz. You want a proper shut down line, the Moen, Pahlsson Rob Neidermeyer line is how you properly build a shut down line. Burke is the man, Gillis is still wearing diapers. Case closed


You're right, those signings are amazing. Even more amazing is that no other GM's made moves to get those players.....oh wait.....some did, but they all had their own reasons to go to the Ducks. It had nothing to do with Burke being the GM, it had to do with the players that were already there.

And Burke didn't draft Getzlaf or Perry, Bryan Murray did. And if Getzlaf and Perry were such great pieces to build around, why have the Ducks done nothing since 2007? Why has Anaheim, with the exception of 2010/11, progressively gotten worse since winning the Cup?

So now that you've ranted, I should go back and quote your opinions of Gillis' move to acquire Pahlsson.....but instead, I would like you to tell us all exactly what Gillis SHOULD have done. Who should have have got instead of Ballard? Who should he have picked up instead of Sundin? Who should he have signed that he didn't? Who should he have traded that he kept? All you do is bitch about Gillis and rave about how badly you want to go down on Burke, you haven't suggested anything. So until you can come up with something that makes sense and was an actual possibility, just STFU already.

Moreover, look at what Burke has done in Toronto over the last 4 seasons with the Maple Laughs. Nothing.
-He picked up Phaneuf and made him team captain. :hmmm:
-He gave up Seguin (clutch kid) for Kessel (soft and quick to disappear). :eh:
-He brought in Giguere because he thinks he's one of the best in the league. :look:
-He says Reimer is the real deal. :rofl:

Burke RULES!!!!! :roll:
User avatar
Meds
CC Legend
 
Posts: 3117
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:50 pm

Re: Gillis. Who is He?

Postby RoyalDude » Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:55 pm

Well, I win again...just read Meds post above. The sensitivity bone was hit mightily, nothing hurts more than the truth.

Hey Meds, regarding Scott signing with Anaheim to play with his brother Rob and Selanne having a soft spot for Anaheim, well do you not think that the same would apply to BC boy Dan Hamhius signing with the Vancouver Canucks??? Hmm, can't wait for your volley on that one.

I just love how Meds skirts Burkes brilliance in Anaheim and skipping to Burkes job now in Toronto. Burkie took a team similar to a situation of the team that Gillis took over here but Burkie had the success in winning Lord Stanley and Gillis not.

The bottom line Meds, Gillis screwed himself by handcuffing this organization with expensive long term contracts in Booth and Ballard (Ballard's contract plays a big part in why Erhoff had to go) where the results from those contracts are colossal failures whereas the contracts Burkie took on in Neidermeyer, Selanne were not. That my friend is the difference. Gillis rolled the dice and lost, Burkie's dice came up.
Last edited by RoyalDude on Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:10 pm, edited 3 times in total.
"I just want to say one word to you. Just one word. Are you listening? - Plastics." - The Graduate
User avatar
RoyalDude
CC Legend
 
Posts: 4291
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:36 pm
Location: Vancouver

Re: Gillis. Who is He?

Postby RoyalDude » Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:06 pm

Mondi wrote:The Canucks do not have and never have had anyone comparable Pronger, Neidermayer or Selanne (save perhaps Bure).

Whether Gillis had the opportunity to bring in 1 or 3 generational-type talents is an open question. And not something you can guess at. But to assert that Gillis is in diapers is to ignore that he did with the Canucks things Burke never and without 3 (THREE) future hall of famers in the lineup.

Given that Getzlaf and Perry were on entry level deals when Burke got a hold of them whereas the Twins were not, you are comparing apples to oranges.

Fuck, I could win the Cup if all I had to do with role Niedmeyer and Pronger (in their prime) over the boards.

Dude you give Gillis a tough go of it, he's been a decent GM. And, I refuse to believe that because Burke drafted the Twins in 1999 he deserves (much) credit for their explosion in 2009. Sure he had something to do with it, but he was a long time removed before they started playing like (regular season) champions.

With that being said, most of Gillis' acquisitions have been useless or near to it. Though the good ones have been really good.


Mondi, you skim reading clown...read my post. Who the fuck was the GM who brought Neidermeyer, Selanne, Pronger and Beachemin in? Sheee-ite dude.
"I just want to say one word to you. Just one word. Are you listening? - Plastics." - The Graduate
User avatar
RoyalDude
CC Legend
 
Posts: 4291
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:36 pm
Location: Vancouver

Re: Gillis. Who is He?

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:22 pm

RoyalDude wrote:
The bottom line Meds, Gillis screwed himself by handcuffing this organization with expensive long term contracts in Booth and Ballard (Ballard's contract plays a big part in why Erhoff had to go) where the results from those contracts are colossal failures


If that's the case , which to anyone with half a brain in their head knows it isn't.... I aint all that broken up over losing Ehrhoff and his 40 million dollar ticket. He wanted a minimum five or 6 year deal that would have likely had him making Sedin money . No thanks.

I am not enamored with either deal. I would like to see Ballard go because he is the 3rd strinstring LD on this team and 4.2 million is too much to pay for that position. That and the fact that even if Hamhuis or Edler get injured it will be little AV moving up to take their place despite the fact Ballard is a much better player. He can't win here and it's in everyone's best interests to move him along where he can play a top 4 roll on a team that doesn't have the blueline depth Vancouver has.

I am willing to give Booth more than half a season before I write him off but again I didn't LOVE the move to begin with but I'd like to see him prove me wrong. If he can score 25 and play decent defence the contract is fine. He needs to catch a break from the caoching staff however and actually put him on the PP for some decent minutes.
Tell me how my ass tastes.
User avatar
Blob Mckenzie
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 2990
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:34 pm
Location: Oakalla

Re: Gillis. Who is He?

Postby SKYO » Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:46 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:
The bottom line Meds, Gillis screwed himself by handcuffing this organization with expensive long term contracts in Booth and Ballard (Ballard's contract plays a big part in why Erhoff had to go) where the results from those contracts are colossal failures


If that's the case , which to anyone with half a brain in their head knows it isn't.... I aint all that broken up over losing Ehrhoff and his 40 million dollar ticket. He wanted a minimum five or 6 year deal that would have likely had him making Sedin money . No thanks.

I am not enamored with either deal. I would like to see Ballard go because he is the 3rd strinstring LD on this team and 4.2 million is too much to pay for that position. That and the fact that even if Hamhuis or Edler get injured it will be little AV moving up to take their place despite the fact Ballard is a much better player. He can't win here and it's in everyone's best interests to move him along where he can play a top 4 roll on a team that doesn't have the blueline depth Vancouver has.

I am willing to give Booth more than half a season before I write him off but again I didn't LOVE the move to begin with but I'd like to see him prove me wrong. If he can score 25 and play decent defence the contract is fine. He needs to catch a break from the caoching staff however and actually put him on the PP for some decent minutes.



Yeah with AV here - Ballard is not going to shine, and that's especially true with Edler and Hammy taking his natural left side preferred play.

As for Ehrhoff I wish we kept him, it was assumed he wanted $5.3M per over 5-6 years, MG wanted $4.5M per.
Our attack was much more dynamic with CE, as we were more dangerous offensively as a cohesive unit, this post season with our lack of attacking scoring chances was a testament to that. I bet if we had a healthy Danny, and Ehrhoff playing RD with Edler we could have taken LA, but that's a if, ands, or buts.

However imo MG thinks we have a real shot at Weber this offseason, who we really could use, as all Cup champions usually have one premier dman to help control the entire game momentum at any moment.
User avatar
SKYO
CC Legend
 
Posts: 3191
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:34 pm

Re: Gillis. Who is He?

Postby Meds » Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:00 pm

RoyalDude wrote:Well, I win again...just read Meds post above. The sensitivity bone was hit mightily, nothing hurts more than the truth.

Hey Meds, regarding Scott signing with Anaheim to play with his brother Rob and Selanne having a soft spot for Anaheim, well do you not think that the same would apply to BC boy Dan Hamhius signing with the Vancouver Canucks??? Hmm, can't wait for your volley on that one.

I just love how Meds skirts Burkes brilliance in Anaheim and skipping to Burkes job now in Toronto. Burkie took a team similar to a situation of the team that Gillis took over here but Burkie had the success in winning Lord Stanley and Gillis not.

The bottom line Meds, Gillis screwed himself by handcuffing this organization with expensive long term contracts in Booth and Ballard (Ballard's contract plays a big part in why Erhoff had to go) where the results from those contracts are colossal failures whereas the contracts Burkie took on in Neidermeyer, Selanne were not. That my friend is the difference. Gillis rolled the dice and lost, Burkie's dice came up.


My Volley on the Hamhuis comment.....

You're right. It's much the same. Hamhuis wanted to come home and play in BC, that being said he wouldn't have retired if Vancouver hadn't been interested.....Neidermayer was contemplating hanging up the skates and only came back for Rob. But you're right, Gillis picked Hamhuis up after Philly (and Pittsburgh I believe) had both traded for his rights and he declined to sign there because he knew Vancouver would offer him a contract. Easy pick up for Gillis.

No sure how I skirt Burke's success in Anaheim.....

Not even sure how I credit Gillis for much of anything either. All I did was point out how flawed your argument is and how high you are on Burke. I then pointed out that he really hadn't done much for Anaheim that any other GM couldn't have done for Anaheim.....unless their name was Darryl Sutter that is. :P

And answer me this, if Burke was SUCH A GREAT GM, why did Vancouver not win a Stanley Cup while he was sitting pretty at the helm of the Canucks and had the WCE, Jovo, Ohlund, Salo, and some good supporting cast members? Is it because he couldn't bear to part ways with Cloutier? Was it because he just couldn't find a top center to replace Mo? I mean really.....he had the tools. Why didn't he trade Jovo when it was clear that Jovo wasn't interested in staying in Vancouver for the money that Burke was able to offer?

Ballard was not a bad trade. He was just one of those trades that looks good based on the player's previous performances and then for whatever reason (coach or player or both) it just doesn't work out.

Booth was not necessarily a bad trade. He wasn't a great trade, his contract is almost on par for his point production when compared to other players around the league. Until this year he was on a team that didn't know what defense was. So that is a weakness in his game. He's not a great fit with Kesler either. But at the same time nobody really expected Kesler to be such a puck hog this year either. Regardless, when you consider the way the entire team played this year it can be argued that Booth is only slightly overpaid.....but then again, so is the entire roster.

And how is he handcuffed by those contracts. Neither player own a NTC. Both would get something in return. And you really are a poor judge of anything hockey related if you are thinking to compare trading, two unproductive players for Ballard, and a pair of aging and under acheiving wingers for Booth, to signing shoe-in Hall-of-Famer's Neidermayer and Selanne as UFA's. Nor is it fair to compare giving up, what at the time was, a bag full of pucks and a 1st round pick in exchange for Pronger. Gillis has had one shot at signing a future HoF player.....and he took it when he went after Sundin.

We are going into the first off-season where Gillis has some HUGE trade bait to dangle, and has several big options on the UFA and RFA markets. And now that the salary cap has been set, temporarily, at $70.3M, Gillis has $15M worth of cap space to play with. Moving Lou and on dman will give him HUGE options. If he doesn't make any moves this summer, or if he makes bad ones, then it's fair to throw him to the wolves. I don't think he's done a piss poor job, but neither do I think he's been stellar.
User avatar
Meds
CC Legend
 
Posts: 3117
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:50 pm

Re: Gillis. Who is He?

Postby SKYO » Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:16 pm

Meds wrote:Booth was not necessarily a bad trade. He wasn't a great trade, his contract is almost on par for his point production when compared to other players around the league. Until this year he was on a team that didn't know what defense was. So that is a weakness in his game. He's not a great fit with Kesler either. But at the same time nobody really expected Kesler to be such a puck hog this year either. Regardless, when you consider the way the entire team played this year it can be argued that Booth is only slightly overpaid.....but then again, so is the entire roster.


Regarding Booth, I think he'll come around, as he showed some brilliance in goal scoring and bullying his way to get those goals, however as much as we need that Hossa pure goal scoring, sniper winger type, if we are to revive our 2nd line of Kesler/Booth, we need a playmaking winger to help those puck shooting hogs, imo one year of Ray Whitney would be perfect for a cup run and help with those puck hogs in RK/DB.
User avatar
SKYO
CC Legend
 
Posts: 3191
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:34 pm

Re: Gillis. Who is He?

Postby Aaronp18 » Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:22 pm

SKYO wrote:
As for Ehrhoff I wish we kept him, it was assumed he wanted $5.3M per over 5-6 years, MG wanted $4.5M per.
Our attack was much more dynamic with CE, as we were more dangerous offensively as a cohesive unit, this post season with our lack of attacking scoring chances was a testament to that. I bet if we had a healthy Danny, and Ehrhoff playing RD with Edler we could have taken LA, but that's a if, ands, or buts.


Ehrhoff is being paid a massive amount of money in the first two years of his deal. Gillis would be looking at likely $6M per to keep him here. He was as good as gone.

And even if we had him in our lineup we weren't getting to the cup this year. LA has been very healthy and we would have to be equally as healthy. Wasn't going to happen with Kesler requiring surgery and Daniel coming back from a concussion, plus the unknown of other minor bumps and bruises.

It's all good though. Take a year to regroup and retool and take another run at it next year!
User avatar
Aaronp18
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 1736
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:36 pm

Re: Gillis. Who is He?

Postby Mondi » Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:50 pm

RoyalDude wrote:
Mondi wrote:The Canucks do not have and never have had anyone comparable Pronger, Neidermayer or Selanne (save perhaps Bure).

Whether Gillis had the opportunity to bring in 1 or 3 generational-type talents is an open question. And not something you can guess at. But to assert that Gillis is in diapers is to ignore that he did with the Canucks things Burke never and without 3 (THREE) future hall of famers in the lineup.

Given that Getzlaf and Perry were on entry level deals when Burke got a hold of them whereas the Twins were not, you are comparing apples to oranges.

Fuck, I could win the Cup if all I had to do with role Niedmeyer and Pronger (in their prime) over the boards.

Dude you give Gillis a tough go of it, he's been a decent GM. And, I refuse to believe that because Burke drafted the Twins in 1999 he deserves (much) credit for their explosion in 2009. Sure he had something to do with it, but he was a long time removed before they started playing like (regular season) champions.

With that being said, most of Gillis' acquisitions have been useless or near to it. Though the good ones have been really good.


Mondi, you skim reading clown...read my post. Who the fuck was the GM who brought Neidermeyer, Selanne, Pronger and Beachemin in? Sheee-ite dude.


I think you misread my post, which, upon rereading, wasn't very well written.

The point I made was threefold:

1. Gillis likely did not have the opportunity to bring in not 1 (ONE), but 3 (THREE) future hall of fame players, and

2. Gillis got ahold of the Canucks after his "young" stars finished their entry-level contracts, therefore

3. Even if Gillis could have signed guys like Pronger and Neidermeyer, he wouldn't have been able to fit them under the cap.

Burke was decent in Van, good in Anaheim and has been shit in Toronto. Not sure I can give him a grade for Hartford.

Gillis has been solid in Van. I'd say the two are comparable.
User avatar
Mondi
CC 1st Team All-Star
 
Posts: 753
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:02 pm

Farhan's $0.05 on Brian Burke

Postby Farhan Lalji » Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:30 pm

Farhan's $0.05 on Brian Burke

I don't think one can label Burke as a "good" or a "bad" GM, but he's definitely a guy that focuses on immediate gratification.........as opposed to long term prosperity.

-Burke helped Vancouver go from being a shitty team, into a respectable franchise.
-Burke helped Anaheim take the next step and helped them win a cup.
-Although Toronto still hasn't made the playoffs during Burke's tenure, Burke has definitely brought in some solid pieces......which will probably soon include Roberto Luongo.

However - a complete focus on immediate gratification........at the expense of long term prosperity............has its disadvantages......for obvious reasons. And if these reasons aren't obvious to posters such as Royaldude, then I ask you the following:

1) Where were the Canucks headed as an organization after the 2005/06 season? (and lets ignore the fact that out of sheer fluke, Keenan wanted to trade Roberto Luongo to the furthest geographical location from Florida)

2) What has Anaheim done since winning the cup in 2007?

3) How has Toronto done over the past 4 years? Who won the Phil Kessel/Tyler Seguin deal?
Farhan Lalji
 

Re: Farhan's $0.05 on Brian Burke

Postby RoyalDude » Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:23 am

Farhan Lalji wrote:Farhan's $0.05 on Brian Burke

I don't think one can label Burke as a "good" or a "bad" GM, but he's definitely a guy that focuses on immediate gratification.........as opposed to long term prosperity.

-Burke helped Vancouver go from being a shitty team, into a respectable franchise.
-Burke helped Anaheim take the next step and helped them win a cup.
-Although Toronto still hasn't made the playoffs during Burke's tenure, Burke has definitely brought in some solid pieces......which will probably soon include Roberto Luongo.

However - a complete focus on immediate gratification........at the expense of long term prosperity............has its disadvantages......for obvious reasons. And if these reasons aren't obvious to posters such as Royaldude, then I ask you the following:

1) Where were the Canucks headed as an organization after the 2005/06 season? (and lets ignore the fact that out of sheer fluke, Keenan wanted to trade Roberto Luongo to the furthest geographical location from Florida)

2) What has Anaheim done since winning the cup in 2007?

3) How has Toronto done over the past 4 years? Who won the Phil Kessel/Tyler Seguin deal?


The thing is Farhan, this core group of the current Vancouver Canucks has been our best chance at winning Lord Stanley, 42 years and no Lord Stanley. Erhoff was a good defenseman for us, almost like our Niedermeyer. We could have had the money for him but Gillis blew it cause he had traded for that goof Balltard and that contract of his. Big mistake, Erhoff was a massive part of our massive attack from the back end. A big reason our offense dried up was because of the loss of CE.

What Burkie did in Anaheim was pure genius and that situation there when he took over as GM was no different than the situation here for Gillis when Gillis took over. The big difference, Burkie made 4 key trades that were the major important parts in that team winning the Stanley Cup. The acquisition's Gillis made to compliment the core group that was put in place by previous management did not compliment the group to help them win the Stanley Cup. I liked the Dan Hamhius and Erhoff acquisitions by Gillis but he dropped the ball by not inking Erhoff to a deal here, end result, no offense from our back end which was a major reason why you saw this team dry up offensively. So basically, the only positive KEY acquisition Gillis has provided for this organization that is still here is Dan Hamhius (and puullllease do not bring up Higgins, Lappiere, blah, blah, blah) I'm talking key core players in the mold of Niedermeyer, Pronger, Selanne and Beauchimen. Not enough in my books for a team so close to winning the Stanley Cup. Gillis has not done the job needed to be done here that Burke did in Anaheim, two very similar situations. I just once want to win the Stanley Cup.
"I just want to say one word to you. Just one word. Are you listening? - Plastics." - The Graduate
User avatar
RoyalDude
CC Legend
 
Posts: 4291
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:36 pm
Location: Vancouver

Re: Gillis. Who is He?

Postby RoyalDude » Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:27 am

Mondi wrote:I think you misread my post, which, upon rereading, wasn't very well written.

The point I made was threefold:

1. Gillis likely did not have the opportunity to bring in not 1 (ONE), but 3 (THREE) future hall of fame players, and

2. Gillis got ahold of the Canucks after his "young" stars finished their entry-level contracts, therefore

3. Even if Gillis could have signed guys like Pronger and Neidermeyer, he wouldn't have been able to fit them under the cap.

Burke was decent in Van, good in Anaheim and has been shit in Toronto. Not sure I can give him a grade for Hartford.

Gillis has been solid in Van. I'd say the two are comparable.


Good in Anaheim? Since winning the Stanley Cup in just two short years as a GM to that franchise considered just 'good'? After going to the Semi-Finals the previous year after being one of the worst teams in the league when Burkie landed the job there.
"I just want to say one word to you. Just one word. Are you listening? - Plastics." - The Graduate
User avatar
RoyalDude
CC Legend
 
Posts: 4291
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:36 pm
Location: Vancouver

PreviousNext

Return to Canucks Corner Chat

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], mathonwy, Meds and 6 guests