Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby Meds on Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:20 am

Farhan Lalji wrote:Uhhhh.........if you have the stomach to re watch Game 7, do it. Those goals were absolutely pitiful. FYI - Canucks outshot and outhit the Bruins by a wide margin in that game, and they weren't just padded 3rd period stats. What does that tell you?


He gets a pass on the first one. Marchand throws a backhand pass from the boards while under pressure, it goes past Salo, then through the skates of Recchi, then Bergeron swings at it and tries a one-timer in traffic that he doesn't connect on fully and his stick hits a Canuck defender's skate. The puck then goes through the a defender's legs and goes right along the ice and slides just to the right of Luongo's pad on the blocker side. If Bergeron connects on that one Lou probably saves it because he is in perfect position to stop almost anything other than a lucky puck that goes off the heel of the shooter's stick. I actually thought Recchi was going to be picking that puck up as Bergeron was almost totally covered.

The second one he as at fault only because the initial shot that came in from the point he saw all the way but didn't smother it and instead gave up a bad rebound.....however, he recovered on that then made a save at the side of the net, the defense was lost, Marchand grabbed up the puck and Lou had to scramble to prevent him from putting one in short-side. Marchand whips around the net and Lou dives back and actually gets his stick on it on the far side, but not enough. Can you tell me what Bieksa, Alberts, and Daniel were doing?

The third one some will argue is as much the fault of the defenseman coming back who takes out Bergeron and then slides into Lou. But I've watched that replay a hundred times and Lou didn't even look like he tried to hold the fort there. He could easily have held that out if he has used his pad instead of trying to grab it with his glove. He misplayed it badly. That was a short-handed goal though, and the Canucks needed to be MUCH better on the PP in that series. I lay the PP woes at the feet of both the players and the coaches. Regardless, goal number 3 is on Lou at the end of the play.

So what those goals and the stats, and from actually having watched the game, tell me is that the Canucks were beaten by a stronger, healthier, dirtier, and bigger, team that setup their game in a way that eliminates the Canucks offense. It was no different than what Sutter had his Kings do in round one this year. It tells me that we watched 7 games (12 if you count round one of this year) of Vigneault's patented phantom offense and the team got burned.
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby wafflecombine on Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:41 am

Why are we even having this discussion. Sometime in the next month Lou will be someone elses property and whether you hate him and think he is the biggest choke/headcase since <insert name> or if think Lou was god's only son sent to help us won't matter a bit.

Lou will play for someone else next year, end of story. All that is left now is to determine the return on the trade.

We've also spent a lot of time debating whether MG is terrible/average/awesome as a GM. In my mind, if he doesn't trade Lou then he actually has made a critical error. After amply demonstrating to everyone that Lou lost the #1 spot this year, keeping Lou for the coming season and trading cory would be like sleeping with your girlfriends sister and then telling the GF "hey baby, I still love you. Will you stay... I can change". Now imagine trying to keep both?

I believe the trade needs to happen for Lou and for the Team. Call it "irrevocable differences" or whatever but a split needs to happen. Both Lou and Cory have handled things well and remain friends... but how long will that last if we keep both in a completely untenable situation? Doing nothing just sours both these guys to the team.

its time to move on. The King is DEAD... LONG LIVE THE KING!
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby ODB on Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:39 am

The Pauser is alive?

Seriously, I thought he got hit by a bus or some shit like that.

:drink:
BTW, NOT A FLAME ... JUST AN OBSERVATION ... :P
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby Farhan Lalji on Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:29 am

Meds wrote:
Lou gets all the credit for our 3 wins. No question. He gets full marks for 3 of the 4 losses too. He is off the hook in game 7, that was all on the team in front of him.



Sorry Meds,

Although you and I are probably in agreement about 95% of things in our discussions with Whalley resident Pauser ( :P ), this is one thing where I strongly disagree with you on.

A superstar goalie is SUPPOSED to be able to bail a team out in trouble situations. Thomas did it in 2011, McLean and Richter did in 94', etc., etc., etc.

The team in front of Luongo, in Game 7, played pretty well. The stats don't lie, and the stats were evenly distributed throughout 3 periods (i.e. no inflated shot total or inflated hit total due to Boston protecting a lead or being in possession of the cup more often). Again - if you have the stomach for it, rewatch the game.

The Canucks out-hit, out-shot, out-chanced, and had more overall puck possession than the Bruins that game. The ONLY stat where the B's out performed the Canucks, was in the face-off circle.......by a narrow margin.

The 3 reasons why Boston won that game was......

1) Boston's positional play was outstanding. It was almost as if Boston knew EXACTLY how the Canucks would attempt to penetrate their zone. This was true from Game 3 onwards, and this was also evident when the Canucks played Boston on January 7th.

2) Tim Thomas was a beast. Boston's positional play helped Thomas greatly, but Thomas also had to make some very tough saves. The twins were getting their chances, while Kesler had his best game of the series (despite his severe injury). Thomas was the difference. The twins' +/- was in proportion to their ice-time. They were not at fault for any of those goals.

3) Luongo didn't rise up to the occassion. All 3 of those goals should have been stopped.
RIP Creeper. You will be missed.
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby vic on Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:14 pm

Meds wrote: But I've watched that replay a hundred times


Watch it again

I disagree on #3 - Lou stopped the original shot and Bergeron put it in with his hand dragging it on the ice. I'm assuming Lou tried to grab it with his glove, but Bergeron's glove beat him to it

Regarless, it was like Gelina's "SC winning" goal against TB - nobody saw it, nobody said anything, didn't go upstairs, TB goes on to win the cup.
Farhan Lalji wrote:A superstar goalie is SUPPOSED to be able to bail a team out in trouble situations. Thomas did it in 2011, McLean and Richter did in 94', etc., etc., etc.


Last time I checked, McLean never won anything for this team.

1994 McLean:
G W L SO GAA SV%
24 15 9 4 2.29 .928

2011 Luongo:
G W L SO GAA SV%
25 15 10 4 2.56 .914

Stats look very similar - with McLean having a slighly better GAA and SV% (0.27 GA and 0.14 SV%)

NYR scored 21 goals in that series - Bos scored 23 are you saying if Luongo let in 2 less goals he would have been considered a superstar goalie in your mind?

Biggest difference between the '94 and '11 teams (IMO) is that the 94 skaters scored 19 goals in the final whereas a team led by back-to-back Art Ross winners, reigning Hart trophy winner, soon to be announced Ted Lindsay and Selke winners scored 8 on a goalie that let in 21 in the series before.

I'll go so far as to say if the '11 Canucks scored 11 more goals in that series to match the '94 team, they win the cup.
Last edited by vic on Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby Meds on Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:31 pm

vic wrote:
Meds wrote: But I've watched that replay a hundred times


Watch it again

I disagree on #3 - Lou stopped the original shot and Bergeron put it in with his hand dragging it on the ice. I'm assuming Lou tried to grab it with his glove, but Bergeron's glove beat him to it

Regarless, it was like Gelina's "SC winning" goal against TB - nobody saw it, nobody said anything, didn't go upstairs, TB goes on to win the cup.


I can't tell if Bergeron actually contacts the puck again after the initial shot, there's not good camera angle on it, the top down view looks like his hand passes over the puck, and it may have hit the shaft of his stick too. Regardless, the Canuck defender hauled him down and is as responsible for that goal as Lou and Bergeron. He should have forced Bergeron to the forehand and just taken away a deke attempt. Lou had the shot.

Not sure what you're talking about with "nobody saw it" on Gelina's goal in game 6. EVERYONE saw it. The replays were clear. The only people who didn't see the replay were the fans in the Saddledome.....imagine that. The NHL knew full well what they were doing there. If they had disallowed that goal they would have had 20,000 people come out of the stands and maul the officials. Bettman was there and he wouldn't have gotten out alive. It went to video review and they called it no-goal.
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby coco_canuck on Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:44 pm

I heard Dreger on the radio the other day say something to the effect of "Gillis will have his socks knocked off with offers for Schneider."

The natural assumption is getting a player like Rick Nash, who is a fantastic player, but he's the same age as Kesler and has a hefty contract. Getting someone 10 years younger, on a cheaper contract, with superstar upside makes more sense.

There was a rumour floating around yesterday, likely suspect, that the Blue Jackets were willing to move 2nd overall pick in a trade involving Schneider.

The type of talent you can pick up that high in the draft will ease concerns for the next wave of star talent for this team.

As much as I like Schneider, I also really like Eddie Lack, and knowledgable evaluators are very high on him, but he's maybe a year from making the NHL, meaning he won't be ready to start until 2014-2015 at the earliest. Luongo easily has 4 prime years left.

Here's an intriguing question, would you move Schneider in a trade to Edmonton for the 1st overall pick if the Oilers were interested?
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby Strangelove on Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:50 pm

coco_canuck wrote:Here's an intriguing question, would you move Schneider in a trade to Edmonton for the 1st overall pick if the Oilers were interested?


:shock:

NO!!!

BTW these Shneider rumours are being discussed in he Off-Season Trade Thread.

Schneider+ for Nash! :thumbs:

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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby Meds on Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:51 pm

Farhan Lalji wrote:
Meds wrote:
Lou gets all the credit for our 3 wins. No question. He gets full marks for 3 of the 4 losses too. He is off the hook in game 7, that was all on the team in front of him.



Sorry Meds,

Although you and I are probably in agreement about 95% of things in our discussions with Whalley resident Pauser ( :P ), this is one thing where I strongly disagree with you on.

A superstar goalie is SUPPOSED to be able to bail a team out in trouble situations. Thomas did it in 2011, McLean and Richter did in 94', etc., etc., etc.

The team in front of Luongo, in Game 7, played pretty well. The stats don't lie, and the stats were evenly distributed throughout 3 periods (i.e. no inflated shot total or inflated hit total due to Boston protecting a lead or being in possession of the cup more often). Again - if you have the stomach for it, rewatch the game.

The Canucks out-hit, out-shot, out-chanced, and had more overall puck possession than the Bruins that game. The ONLY stat where the B's out performed the Canucks, was in the face-off circle.......by a narrow margin.

The 3 reasons why Boston won that game was......

1) Boston's positional play was outstanding. It was almost as if Boston knew EXACTLY how the Canucks would attempt to penetrate their zone. This was true from Game 3 onwards, and this was also evident when the Canucks played Boston on January 7th.

2) Tim Thomas was a beast. Boston's positional play helped Thomas greatly, but Thomas also had to make some very tough saves. The twins were getting their chances, while Kesler had his best game of the series (despite his severe injury). Thomas was the difference. The twins' +/- was in proportion to their ice-time. They were not at fault for any of those goals.

3) Luongo didn't rise up to the occassion. All 3 of those goals should have been stopped.


You know what though, that's the bounces of hockey. Look at game 6 where Hank misses bouncing puck on a GIMME. We probably would have won the Cup there in Boston if he potted that first goal.....just judging by the way that series went. We had some chances in game 7, but I don't consider them to be great chances. Like you said, Boston knew EXACTLY what we were going to do, and that goes to coaching. Thomas was great, but the Canucks never got him moving side-to-side the way Tampa did. All of our chances came from one side of the ice and any second shots we got were on rebounds right in front of Thomas or on the same side that the shot came from. He's a stocky goalie who gets right in front of the puck and we just banged away at it. The backdoor was wide open many times, and the rebounds to the weak side were more than enough to have kept Vancouver in the hunt if they EVER filled all 3 lanes on a rush.

I agree that Lou didn't step up. But he didn't let the team down like he did in games 3, 4, and 6. Unfortunately, with Schneider in net Boston doesn't score the first goal because his butterfly is wider and seals the ice along the front of the net. The second goal is swallowed up on the initial shot, and failing that, well Schneider moves around much better than Lou, and chances are the 3rd one stays out because Schneids as much better lower body strength (apparently) and is better at pushing back against net crashing forwards and wipeout dmen. But you know what? Even if that last one went in on Schneider, the Canucks still lose because the couldn't score. So when I say I give Lou the pass on game 7, I guess I mean that he just gets lumped in with the rest of the team and he's not on the hook by himself.

Stats don't lie about the number of saves a goalie makes or the number of hits a team throws. But they do lie about quality. Look at Jonathan Quick this year. He's been unreal, the numbers say so, but you know what, he also waltzed through round one with inflated totals because the Canucks never mustered anything substantial on him. A few really good saves, and he saved his best for the last game on Daniel's breakaway, but through 4 games he was just turning away shots from the outside. Against St. Louis and Phoenix he was much better and made some tougher saves. I haven't seen games 2-4 of the SCF, but in game one it could easily have been 3-1 NJ at the end of the first if not for whatever horseshoe he's got going on. Quick was down and out 3 times and the puck was on a wide open Devil skater's stick but went wide or inches over the bar. Regardless, numbers, while maybe not lying outright, can be very misleading.
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby coco_canuck on Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:00 pm

Strangelove wrote:
NO!!!


I know, I fucking hate the Oilers, and don't want to move him there, but Nail Yakupov is gonna be a stud.

Strangelove wrote:BTW these Shneider rumours are being discussed in he Off-Season Trade Thread.

Schneider+ for Nash! :thumbs:


Ah yes, thanks.
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby Strangelove on Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:09 pm

coco_canuck wrote:but Nail Yakupov is gonna be a stud.


Yakupov is a devout muslim, we'd never hear the end of rants from you-know-who. :look:

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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby coco_canuck on Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:48 pm

Strangelove wrote:Yakupov is a devout muslim, we'd never hear the end of rants from you-know-who. :look:


A locker room divided along religious lines.
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby donlever on Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:53 pm

..speaking of divided who the fuk does Darren Dreger think he is n e way?

Guy talks like he's Walter fricking Cronkite.

Fuk u Darren Dreger!
A different goddamn hockey talk messageboard!
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby wafflecombine on Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:07 pm

hahahaha... imagine him in a locker room with Tim Tomas.

Booth might be religious but Thomas is right-wing, crazy and religious. :)
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby Meds on Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:07 pm

Strangelove wrote:
coco_canuck wrote:but Nail Yakupov is gonna be a stud.


Yakupov is a devout muslim, we'd never hear the end of rants from you-know-who. :look:


Yeah, and we've already had the 94 and 2011 riots, the McSorely slash, and the Bertuzzi incident in Vancouver, the last thing I want to see us adding is the Jihad at the blueline when Yakupov takes off his skate and kills an infidel.....

But if we're gonna do it, then we have to trade Lou to the Leafs and bring in Kadri to play on a line with Yakupov and Booth.....
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