Offseason Wheelings and Dealings

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Re: Offseason Wheelings and Dealings

Postby Aaronp18 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:16 pm

Strangelove wrote:Supply and demand baby!! :thumbs:


You got it dude!

:twisted:

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Re: Offseason Wheelings and Dealings

Postby Tciso » Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:03 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:Hedman will not be moving for Luongo. I don't think they'd move him for either of our goalies.

I think you overvalue Lu. All I do is look to what he fetched when he was younger and not tied up for 10 more years. A broken, albeit productive (25G, 71 Pts) Todd Bertuzzi, former 4th overall physical D-man Bryan Allen, and backup Alex Auld. Nowhere in that deal do I see a physical specimen like Victor Hedman. It's now 6 years later, Luongo has a NTC, and a whopping contract length to deal with. The return WILL be less than we gave up for him.


Hedman is still a prospect at this stage. He has really proven nothing. He hasn't turned into a Chara. He needs another 2 or 3 seasons before he starts to hit his stride. So, Lou for Hedman isn't a bad trade. Tampa needs help in goal ASAP, and Hedman is really a top 2 or 3 Dman at this stage in his development, with potential to be a Great #1, and even an elite D. Hedman is currently worth less than the previous package of Bert, Allen and Auld was back then, imo.

I don't think Lou is going to Tampa though. Not sure why. Just my gut saying there's another team that needs him, and wants him more.
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Re: Offseason Wheelings and Dealings

Postby RoyalDude » Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:12 pm

Tciso wrote:
Island Nucklehead wrote:Hedman will not be moving for Luongo. I don't think they'd move him for either of our goalies.

I think you overvalue Lu. All I do is look to what he fetched when he was younger and not tied up for 10 more years. A broken, albeit productive (25G, 71 Pts) Todd Bertuzzi, former 4th overall physical D-man Bryan Allen, and backup Alex Auld. Nowhere in that deal do I see a physical specimen like Victor Hedman. It's now 6 years later, Luongo has a NTC, and a whopping contract length to deal with. The return WILL be less than we gave up for him.


Hedman is still a prospect at this stage. He has really proven nothing. He hasn't turned into a Chara. He needs another 2 or 3 seasons before he starts to hit his stride. So, Lou for Hedman isn't a bad trade. Tampa needs help in goal ASAP, and Hedman is really a top 2 or 3 Dman at this stage in his development, with potential to be a Great #1, and even an elite D. Hedman is currently worth less than the previous package of Bert, Allen and Auld was back then, imo.

I don't think Lou is going to Tampa though. Not sure why. Just my gut saying there's another team that needs him, and wants him more.


This

Thank you for the sensible posting regarding Hedman. Posters here at the CC seem to have a love affair for players if they were drafted high like it somehow means that they are currently superstars in the NHL, ie Luke Schenn. Seriously, the only people raving about Hedman is the CanucksCorner. I like you Tciso.

I agree about where Tampa is regarding goaltending. I get the sense that they could care less about Luongo and Schneider. To me, all fingers point to Toronto as to who we will be dealing with when it comes to our goaltenders.
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Re: Offseason Wheelings and Dealings

Postby Island Nucklehead » Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:41 pm

Tciso wrote:Hedman is still a prospect at this stage. He has really proven nothing. He hasn't turned into a Chara. He needs another 2 or 3 seasons before he starts to hit his stride. So, Lou for Hedman isn't a bad trade. Tampa needs help in goal ASAP, and Hedman is really a top 2 or 3 Dman at this stage in his development, with potential to be a Great #1, and even an elite D. Hedman is currently worth less than the previous package of Bert, Allen and Auld was back then, imo.


Hedman is 21, he won't be 22 until December. He's younger than Jake Gardiner, Chris Tanev and Kevin Connauton. He's outscored Chara by a wide margin at the same age. He skates better than Chara does. Hedman put up 20 points as a 19/20 year old. Chara was 24/25 before he started putting up those numbers. Hedman has 69 points in 214 games. It took Chara 306 games to get 52...

If Hedman is a top 2/3 at 21 years old, he'll be one of the best in the game by the time Chara was putting up 30 point seasons. I think they'll be holding on to him.

Of course you can hope Yzerman is as stupid as Milbury, who traded Chara before he developed fully.. I don't think he is.
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Re: Offseason Wheelings and Dealings

Postby Uncle dans leg » Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:01 am

Hedman would be a good addition but I cant see Yzerman letting him go unless its for CS. His upside is Pronger-esque and even though he hasn't stepped in and dominated just quite yet, I think its only a matter of time.
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Re: Offseason Wheelings and Dealings

Postby Tciso » Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:38 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:
Tciso wrote:Hedman is still a prospect at this stage. He has really proven nothing. He hasn't turned into a Chara. He needs another 2 or 3 seasons before he starts to hit his stride. So, Lou for Hedman isn't a bad trade. Tampa needs help in goal ASAP, and Hedman is really a top 2 or 3 Dman at this stage in his development, with potential to be a Great #1, and even an elite D. Hedman is currently worth less than the previous package of Bert, Allen and Auld was back then, imo.


Hedman is 21, he won't be 22 until December. He's younger than Jake Gardiner, Chris Tanev and Kevin Connauton. He's outscored Chara by a wide margin at the same age. He skates better than Chara does. Hedman put up 20 points as a 19/20 year old. Chara was 24/25 before he started putting up those numbers. Hedman has 69 points in 214 games. It took Chara 306 games to get 52...

If Hedman is a top 2/3 at 21 years old, he'll be one of the best in the game by the time Chara was putting up 30 point seasons. I think they'll be holding on to him.


Teemu Selanne scored 76 goals his rookie season. Yes, forwards develop faster then defensemen, but by your logic, Selanne should have gotten better, not worse. Where's his 100 goal season? Hedman -may- become an elite player, but, it is still too soon to state that for sure. He could just as easy be a Dion Phaneuf. Definitely a good #1, but not a Chara. Or, with a touch of emotional baggage, he could be out of the league in 3 years.

Bottom line, Hedman for Lou is a real hockey trade. Or Hedman + prospect for Lou + Ballard.
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Re: Offseason Wheelings and Dealings

Postby Island Nucklehead » Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:47 pm

Uncle dans leg wrote:Hedman would be a good addition but I cant see Yzerman letting him go unless its for CS. His upside is Pronger-esque and even though he hasn't stepped in and dominated just quite yet, I think its only a matter of time.


Yep. He's got the pedigree to be that good. Obviously he won't be as mean as Pronger, but he skates like a guy who's 6'0 and he's something like 6'6 230. Once he figures out how to use that frame he's going to be a beast.

Tciso wrote:Hedman -may- become an elite player, but, it is still too soon to state that for sure. He could just as easy be a Dion Phaneuf. Definitely a good #1, but not a Chara. Or, with a touch of emotional baggage, he could be out of the league in 3 years.

Bottom line, Hedman for Lou is a real hockey trade. Or Hedman + prospect for Lou + Ballard.


And why can't he become Chara? He's better than Chara was at the same age.

Hedman for Lou is a fleecing on our part, imo. We've probably seen the best of Lou. I don't know anyone that would say we've seen Hedman's best. I'd happily take it. But I think Lou for Malone and 10 or 19 is probably a more realistic "hockey trade".
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Re: Offseason Wheelings and Dealings

Postby Tciso » Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:58 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:
Tciso wrote:Hedman -may- become an elite player, but, it is still too soon to state that for sure. He could just as easy be a Dion Phaneuf. Definitely a good #1, but not a Chara. Or, with a touch of emotional baggage, he could be out of the league in 3 years.

Bottom line, Hedman for Lou is a real hockey trade. Or Hedman + prospect for Lou + Ballard.


And why can't he become Chara? He's better than Chara was at the same age.

Hedman for Lou is a fleecing on our part, imo. We've probably seen the best of Lou. I don't know anyone that would say we've seen Hedman's best. I'd happily take it. But I think Lou for Malone and 10 or 19 is probably a more realistic "hockey trade".


I was referring to Phaneuf with the #1, but not Chara comparison. Hedman could wind up being anywhere from a JovoCop to a Phaneuf to a Pronger/Chara.

Who is "10" I hope you don't mean Bure :) I don't see anyone with that # on Tampa's roster
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Re: Offseason Wheelings and Dealings

Postby jackalman » Tue Jun 05, 2012 4:26 pm

^^^^ I believe he is talking about the 10th or 19th overall picks.
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Re: Offseason Wheelings and Dealings

Postby Island Nucklehead » Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:02 pm

jackalman wrote:^^^^ I believe he is talking about the 10th or 19th overall picks.



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Re: Offseason Wheelings and Dealings

Postby SKYO » Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:38 pm

I can't really see Hedman being close to Chara or Pronger in terms of sheer dominating the play with their brute strength, but points wise yeah he could start piling them up eventually if he stays healthy.

taken from hfb on Hedman's play this season:

It's not as if he's bad... He looked GREAT coming back from his concussion, then he got injured again, and regressed. I want him to be more physical. For a guy so big, he barely ever hits. That was what made him good after his concussion.
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We need a defenseman to play with him that can cover up when he wants to go on offense.
In the future I think Hedman can be a 40 point dman that plays stellar defense against other teams top players. Im slightly concerned about his concussion history already though.
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The playoffs and this past season were good steps for Hedman. For periods of time this past year, it was glorious watching him. Like "**** yeah, this is what I'm talking about." and at other times, though they weren't as apparent after his injury oddly enough, his play was head-scratching worthy.
Hoping he puts it together consistently next year. Because we now know he can do it for more than just a single game, but rather games at a time.
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Every season he's progressed and he had a lot on his plate this past season with the way our D played. I'll be happy if he continually plays great shutdown defense each night against the top lines. I'm not really too concerned about his points. Right now he's focusing about his defensive game. When he's grown enough where he feels good moving the puck up the ice and when he finally cements a spot on the pp his points will go up past 30.
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Ithink what most complaints about him are he's not physical, which is just, but he's been getting more physical each year. His offensive numbers aren't on par either with top pair D in the league but he doesn't get much PP time. If you look at the stats of most top D they get a fair share of their points on the PP. I'm hoping Boucher gives him more of a chance on PP cause he's got a big shot. When he came back late in the season he seemed to look the best he ever had, he jumped in offensively, his vision and passing were crisp, he seemed more comfortable than earlier in the season when he was more hesitant. I just hope he stays healthy all season cause his game is rounding out nicely.
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His decision making and vision are really sub-par.
-I can agree with one of those... he still handles the puck like a live grenade at times.
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Re: Offseason Wheelings and Dealings

Postby Island Nucklehead » Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:06 pm

Hedman played 23:05 this season as a 20-21 year old.

When Chara was 20/21, he was a rookie and he played 11:07. He didn't hit 23Mins until 02-03 in Ottawa, when he was 25/26.

Let the guy get used to his huge body before we write off his physicality. Either way, that never was his biggest asset. The guy skates excellently, and with that big frame comes a huge reach. Let him get stronger and smarter, I don't think he'll ever be as mean as Pronger, but all signs still point to him being a Franchise d-man.

All that being said. I think Yzerman sees the big picture, and I think Stamkos/Hedman are the cornerstones of that franchise in terms of value.
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Re: Offseason Wheelings and Dealings

Postby RoyalDude » Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:29 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:Hedman played 23:05 this season as a 20-21 year old.

When Chara was 20/21, he was a rookie and he played 11:07. He didn't hit 23Mins until 02-03 in Ottawa, when he was 25/26.

Let the guy get used to his huge body before we write off his physicality. Either way, that never was his biggest asset. The guy skates excellently, and with that big frame comes a huge reach. Let him get stronger and smarter, I don't think he'll ever be as mean as Pronger, but all signs still point to him being a Franchise d-man.

All that being said. I think Yzerman sees the big picture, and I think Stamkos/Hedman are the cornerstones of that franchise in terms of value.


Nucklehead, seriously dude...Hedman will never be in the category of Pronger or Chara. Give your head a shake.
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Re: Offseason Wheelings and Dealings

Postby tantalum » Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:53 am

IN other NHL news...Tambi got a 5 years extension from the Oilers. Now i"m sure many would disagree with me but about the only thing he's managed to do is take consensus #1 picks and repeat the mantra of "the team has a bright future" despite it never actually improving.

Of course I'm reasonably sure he's still Lowe's puppet so perhaps the blames should still be on Lowe.
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Re: Offseason Wheelings and Dealings

Postby the Dogsalmon » Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:37 am

tantalum wrote:IN other NHL news...Tambi got a 5 years extension from the Oilers. Now i"m sure many would disagree with me but about the only thing he's managed to do is take consensus #1 picks and repeat the mantra of "the team has a bright future" despite it never actually improving.

Of course I'm reasonably sure he's still Lowe's puppet so perhaps the blames should still be on Lowe.





i cant believe the Oiler ownership is this stupid...Tambellini is a total failure...a complete blackout!!!..a retarded monkey could do what he has done...probably better...
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