Offseason Wheelings and Dealings

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Re: Offseason Wheelings and Dealings

Postby CFP! » Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:18 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:I'm gonna throw it out there: Would folks be willing to do a Schneider+ package for the 2nd overall pick in the draft, thereby keeping Luongo.

Columbus is desperate for goaltending, the pick is reportedly in play. Luongo will almost certainly not want to go there. Forget Nash, what are the odds of us getting a Seguin-esque shot in the arm without having to sacrifice (a lot) from our roster?


Who would you suggest fits better? Grigorenko (C), Galchenyuk (C) or Forsberg(LW).

I'm still iffy picking Russians, and Murrary seems the most NHL ready.
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Re: Offseason Wheelings and Dealings

Postby Farhan Lalji » Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:27 pm

CFP! wrote:
Farhan Lalji wrote:Again - I'm just thinking out loud. Slow day. :P


No offense man, (thanks for bumping some threads today) butt do you ever get tired of reading your "spitballing"? I mean, you say slow day....but it seems like your posts contain a lot filler.


Short answer - no. :)

Obviously - I realize that a lot of my ideas/thoughts will never come to fruition, but I'd rather be a guy that speaks his mind and gives different perspectives rather than saying what everyone else is already saying (which is kind of what I suspect you do).

I don't think a lot of what I've said today is filler anyways. The two main points I've made today is:

1) Even if Kesler is healthy, we need to use him in a similar manner to how we used him during the 2011 playoffs.....or how he was used during the 2010 Olympics. (i.e. going up against opposing top lines, shutting them down, scoring on turnovers) as opposed to letting someone like Pahlsson or Malhottra playing in that role (which then forces Kesler to play a primarily offensive role........which is NOT where he is at his best). A healthy Kesler would have still been shut down by Mike Richards. However - a healthy Kesler would have significantly reduced the effectiveness of Brown and Kopitar.

2) The Canucks need to choose the route they want to go, and take an aggressive stance (whether it's 'going for it' next year or the year after, or ensuring our long term future). Be aggressive. Either get a superstar player that can help us next year and the year after, or trade someone significant (along with Luongo) to bring in a shit load of prospects. Being 'middle of the road' and not taking an aggressive stance in either direction will lead us to being like San Jose in my opinion.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't think these thoughts/suggestions are just filler. ???

If you have something that you think is useful to say, then you yourself should bring it up so that it benefits the board. Wouldn't you agree? It's infinitely easier to critique the posts of others as opposed to taking the initiative to post an idea yourself. Trust me. ;)

By the way - this isn't a knock on you. I just think that we tend to have two different style of postings. I tend to say whatever is on my mind, where you seem like the kind of guy that waits for "social proof" of common sentiment, so that you can "safely" re-iterate what others are saying.
Last edited by Farhan Lalji on Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Offseason Wheelings and Dealings

Postby Farhan Lalji » Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:30 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:
I'm gonna throw it out there: Would folks be willing to do a Schneider+ package for the 2nd overall pick in the draft, thereby keeping Luongo.


Personally - I'd only trade Schneider at this point if I knew we were getting an immediate impact superstar player that could help us win right now.

Maybe it's just me, but I honestly believe that Schneider is as good as Quick, Lundquist, and Rinne right NOW......maybe even better.

However - if we're entertaining that line of thought (or if Gillis is), then I'd love to get Murray. Murray is definitely the real deal. I also share CFP's sentiments in regards to trusting Russians.
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Re: Offseason Wheelings and Dealings

Postby Strangelove » Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:31 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:I'm gonna throw it out there: Would folks be willing to do a Schneider+ package for the 2nd overall pick in the draft, thereby keeping Luongo.

Columbus is desperate for goaltending, the pick is reportedly in play. Luongo will almost certainly not want to go there. Forget Nash, what are the odds of us getting a Seguin-esque shot in the arm without having to sacrifice (a lot) from our roster?


Seriously I'd rather they trade Schneids for former 1st overall Rick Nash.

But yes I'd settle for 2nd overall 2012.

Either way, not sure we'd hafta add anything much (or at all) to Schneids.
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Re: Offseason Wheelings and Dealings

Postby Island Nucklehead » Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:51 pm

CFP! wrote:
Island Nucklehead wrote:I'm gonna throw it out there: Would folks be willing to do a Schneider+ package for the 2nd overall pick in the draft, thereby keeping Luongo.

Columbus is desperate for goaltending, the pick is reportedly in play. Luongo will almost certainly not want to go there. Forget Nash, what are the odds of us getting a Seguin-esque shot in the arm without having to sacrifice (a lot) from our roster?


Who would you suggest fits better? Grigorenko (C), Galchenyuk (C) or Forsberg(LW).

I'm still iffy picking Russians, and Murrary seems the most NHL ready.



Honestly I don't know a whole lot about any of them. I know Galchenyuk isn't a true Rusky. He's American. He's had some injury issues, but there's some that think he's comparable to teammate Yakupov. The Leafs are hoping he'll fall to them as their future star C, so fucking them over (if they don't trade us good shit for Lu) would be wicked. He'd likely allow us unparalleled depth behind Sedin and Kesler.

Forsberg is only 17 (18 in August). I don't think he's NHL ready at this point.

Murray may be the most NHL ready, but I worry about moving a defenceman along too quickly, and I'm not sure who he's going to supplant on this team. Bieksa, Hamhuis, Edler, Ballard, Salo, and probably Tanev are probably better suited to help this team next year.

Grigorenko already plays in NA... so he must be dedicated to giving the NHL a shot. 6'3, 200lb centre. Not much to hate.

Strangelove wrote:Seriously I'd rather they trade Schneids for former 1st overall Rick Nash.

But yes I'd settle for 2nd overall 2012.

Either way, not sure we'd hafta add anything much (or at all) to Schneids.


Yeah, Nash brings imidiate 2-line death to our roster. The cap hit is huge, and I think it will cost us Schneider + more than the 2nd overall. If we keep Luongo I'm not sure how we can add him without kissing Edler goodbye at the end of the season. Dumping Ballard and Raymond this summer is a given to fit him under the cap next season. I don't think it's a tenable situation for us.

I'm not sure what Schneids' value is. If Columbus offers us 2nd overall for him straight up I think we have to go for it. We still have Luongo. Kessel returned more, but the Bruins were lucky that the Leafs are such a terrible franchise to pick at #2 overall. Also, I'd rather have Lack back-up a 65-game capable Lou than a first-time (despite my belief he'd be successful) starter in Schneider.
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Re: Offseason Wheelings and Dealings

Postby Strangelove » Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:58 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:I'm not sure what Schneids' value is. If Columbus offers us 2nd overall for him straight up I think we have to go for it.


Was it confirmed that Gillis turned down the 11th overall for Schneids last year?

(sounds believable).

And his value has grown quite a lot since, so pretty sure we could land #2 overall.

Might hafta throw in a prospect.
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Re: Offseason Wheelings and Dealings

Postby CFP! » Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:03 pm

CFP! wrote:
No offense man, (thanks for bumping some threads today) butt do you ever get tired of reading your "spitballing"? I mean, you say slow day....but it seems like your posts contain a lot filler.


Farhan Lalji wrote:Short answer - no. :)

Obviously - I realize that a lot of my ideas/thoughts will never come to fruition, but I'd rather be a guy that speaks his mind and gives different perspectives rather than saying what everyone else is already saying (which is kind of what I suspect you do).


Quite the statement from you. I like your short answers better.

Why post 5000 word essays that by word 10 you know aint gonna work? You know Luo and Kes aren't being traded in the same deal, and you should know we aren't accepting the package back you suggested for reasons we have already spoke about. But then you continue to cover your trail with another 5000 word essay that says the last post wont happen ever and it was just something you thought about in the shower. :look:

Farhan Lalji wrote:By the way - this isn't a knock on you. I just think that we tend to have two different style of postings. I tend to say whatever is on my mind, where you seem like the kind of guy that waits for "social proof" of common sentiment, so that you can "safely" re-iterate what others are saying.


If I was waiting for "social proof" I'd have the best posting reputation on the net. Oh wait, that'd be Eklund, right?
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Re: Offseason Wheelings and Dealings

Postby Canuck-One » Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:32 am

Draft picks are a crap shoot. They are either boom or bust and a lot more bust than boom. To trade a known quality like Schneider or Luongo for "potential" leaves me cold. I want a contributor now, not down the road, perhaps, maybe, if he lives up to "potential". If we believe the Canucks are serious contenders who are only a tweek or two from winning it all, why trade for "potential"? Why not trade for now, like a Victor Hedman who will contribute right away. Or even a Nash if we can fit him into the cap and the room without too much disruption of egos. If we have to trade for the future then trading for Gardiner and the 5th overall would be okay, but not for Schneider and not for anymore than Luo straight up. Once again I think you guys under value a star goalie versus other positions and definitley Schneider and Luongo.
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Re: Offseason Wheelings and Dealings

Postby TDA Rum » Sun Jun 03, 2012 11:41 am

Tim Thomas is taking the year off....

From his Facebook:

From the earliest age I can remember, I've wanted to be a hockey player. I've been blessed in my life to not only be able to live that dream, but to achieve more than I ever thought possible.

The singleminded focus that is necessary to accomplish a dream of this magnitude entails (by necessity) sacrifice in other areas and relationships in life.

At the age of 38, I believe it is time to put my time and energies into those areas and relationships that I have neglected. That is why at this time I feel the most important thing I can do in my life is to reconnect with the three F's.

Friends, Family, and Faith.

This is what I plan on doing over the course of the next year.

On top of this, I will continue to train using the ARP/POV system www.ultrafitevosport.com and work with G-Form www.g-form.com in the development of protective equipment.

What does this portend for the future?

We'll see….God's will be done.
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Re: Offseason Wheelings and Dealings

Postby Arachnid » Sun Jun 03, 2012 11:59 am

TDA Rum wrote:Tim Thomas is taking the year off....

From his Facebook:

From the earliest age I can remember, I've wanted to be a hockey player. I've been blessed in my life to not only be able to live that dream, but to achieve more than I ever thought possible.

The singleminded focus that is necessary to accomplish a dream of this magnitude entails (by necessity) sacrifice in other areas and relationships in life.

At the age of 38, I believe it is time to put my time and energies into those areas and relationships that I have neglected. That is why at this time I feel the most important thing I can do in my life is to reconnect with the three F's.

Friends, Family, and Faith.

This is what I plan on doing over the course of the next year.

On top of this, I will continue to train using the ARP/POV system http://www.ultrafitevosport.com and work with G-Form http://www.g-form.com in the development of protective equipment.

What does this portend for the future?

We'll see….God's will be done.


*throws up* I think he's making a run with Mitt for VP USA 8-)
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Re: Offseason Wheelings and Dealings

Postby Farhan Lalji » Sun Jun 03, 2012 12:09 pm

TDA Rum wrote:Tim Thomas is taking the year off....

From his Facebook:

From the earliest age I can remember, I've wanted to be a hockey player. I've been blessed in my life to not only be able to live that dream, but to achieve more than I ever thought possible.

The singleminded focus that is necessary to accomplish a dream of this magnitude entails (by necessity) sacrifice in other areas and relationships in life.

At the age of 38, I believe it is time to put my time and energies into those areas and relationships that I have neglected. That is why at this time I feel the most important thing I can do in my life is to reconnect with the three F's.

Friends, Family, and Faith.

This is what I plan on doing over the course of the next year.

On top of this, I will continue to train using the ARP/POV system http://www.ultrafitevosport.com and work with G-Form http://www.g-form.com in the development of protective equipment.

What does this portend for the future?

We'll see….God's will be done.


Meh - good for him.

Whether we like the guy or not, Thomas had a brilliant finish to his career.........even this is in fact his swan swong.

Still think it would be hilarious if we signed Schneider, and then screwed over the B's by offering Tuuka Raask a silly yet matchable offer sheet to him (Which the B's would match). Drive their cap up by about 2.5-3 million.
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Re: Offseason Wheelings and Dealings

Postby Farhan Lalji » Sun Jun 03, 2012 12:27 pm

CFP! wrote:
Quite the statement from you. I like your short answers better.

Why post 5000 word essays that by word 10 you know aint gonna work? You know Luo and Kes aren't being traded in the same deal, and you should know we aren't accepting the package back you suggested for reasons we have already spoke about. But then you continue to cover your trail with another 5000 word essay that says the last post wont happen ever and it was just something you thought about in the shower. :look:


The short answer to your question, is that I think it's worth discussing. For instance - if the 'mantra' in the NHL is that depth and youth is king, then why NOT speculate as to why a package of Luongo/Kesler may or may not be a good idea (even if it has little to no chance of happening). We all saw what type of return the Flyers got with Mike Richards last year.


If I was waiting for "social proof" I'd have the best posting reputation on the net. Oh wait, that'd be Eklund, right?


Even if Eklund is reliant on his "inside sources" before commenting, he is still an innovator. Although I myself do not follow Eklund.
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Re: Offseason Wheelings and Dealings

Postby Island Nucklehead » Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:24 pm

Canuck-One wrote:Draft picks are a crap shoot. They are either boom or bust and a lot more bust than boom. To trade a known quality like Schneider or Luongo for "potential" leaves me cold. I want a contributor now, not down the road, perhaps, maybe, if he lives up to "potential". If we believe the Canucks are serious contenders who are only a tweek or two from winning it all, why trade for "potential"? Why not trade for now, like a Victor Hedman who will contribute right away. Or even a Nash if we can fit him into the cap and the room without too much disruption of egos. If we have to trade for the future then trading for Gardiner and the 5th overall would be okay, but not for Schneider and not for anymore than Luo straight up. Once again I think you guys under value a star goalie versus other positions and definitley Schneider and Luongo.


Draft picks are a crap shoot, but for the most part they are required to improve your team. The 5th overall pick is likely to be a solid NHL contributor and quite possibly a star player eventually. I agree that there are no guarantees, but you'd have to think that the Bruins extended their window and made their future that much brighter by getting a draft pick that turned into Tyler Seguin.

Hedman will not be moving for Luongo. I don't think they'd move him for either of our goalies.

I think you overvalue Lu. All I do is look to what he fetched when he was younger and not tied up for 10 more years. A broken, albeit productive (25G, 71 Pts) Todd Bertuzzi, former 4th overall physical D-man Bryan Allen, and backup Alex Auld. Nowhere in that deal do I see a physical specimen like Victor Hedman. It's now 6 years later, Luongo has a NTC, and a whopping contract length to deal with. The return WILL be less than we gave up for him.
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Re: Offseason Wheelings and Dealings

Postby Diehard1 » Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:02 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:
Canuck-One wrote:Draft picks are a crap shoot. They are either boom or bust and a lot more bust than boom. To trade a known quality like Schneider or Luongo for "potential" leaves me cold. I want a contributor now, not down the road, perhaps, maybe, if he lives up to "potential". If we believe the Canucks are serious contenders who are only a tweek or two from winning it all, why trade for "potential"? Why not trade for now, like a Victor Hedman who will contribute right away. Or even a Nash if we can fit him into the cap and the room without too much disruption of egos. If we have to trade for the future then trading for Gardiner and the 5th overall would be okay, but not for Schneider and not for anymore than Luo straight up. Once again I think you guys under value a star goalie versus other positions and definitley Schneider and Luongo.


Draft picks are a crap shoot, but for the most part they are required to improve your team. The 5th overall pick is likely to be a solid NHL contributor and quite possibly a star player eventually. I agree that there are no guarantees, but you'd have to think that the Bruins extended their window and made their future that much brighter by getting a draft pick that turned into Tyler Seguin.

Hedman will not be moving for Luongo. I don't think they'd move him for either of our goalies.

I think you overvalue Lu. All I do is look to what he fetched when he was younger and not tied up for 10 more years. A broken, albeit productive (25G, 71 Pts) Todd Bertuzzi, former 4th overall physical D-man Bryan Allen, and backup Alex Auld. Nowhere in that deal do I see a physical specimen like Victor Hedman. It's now 6 years later, Luongo has a NTC, and a whopping contract length to deal with. The return WILL be less than we gave up for him.


I would agree - but keep in mind that Keenan had been told by Florida's ownership at the time that he had to trade Lu and couldn't take much salary back. He even admitted that he was offered Joe Thornton straight up and ownership wouldn't allow it.

With the Nucks we know their owners will take back salary and it's going to ,be a straight hockey deal. I do agree with your point that Lu is less valuable now than he was in his Florida years.
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Re: Offseason Wheelings and Dealings

Postby Strangelove » Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:39 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:I think you overvalue Lu. All I do is look to what he fetched when he was younger and not tied up for 10 more years. A broken, albeit productive (25G, 71 Pts) Todd Bertuzzi, former 4th overall physical D-man Bryan Allen, and backup Alex Auld. Nowhere in that deal do I see a physical specimen like Victor Hedman. It's now 6 years later, Luongo has a NTC, and a whopping contract length to deal with. The return WILL be less than we gave up for him.


Bert at 32 was still considered one of the best power forwards in the game (hurt his back badly not long after the trade), Allen was considered a Top 4 dee who was just entering his prime, Auld was considered an up-and-coming 25-year-old starting goaltender - he had faired well in the 67 games played in the previous season (winning Canucks MVP in the process) and his resume in general had starter written all over it .

So yeah, we gave up an aging power forward and two young future-looks-bright roster players.

Who knew Bert would hurt his back, Allen would stagnate, and Auld would digress? :drink:

Luongo's contract is actually awesome for a cap-max team, that's why they call em "cap circumvention" contracts. :thumbs:

We've had 6 years of Lou greatness and IF we trade him some other team will get 6 years of Lou greatness.

And any team acquiring him will pay him a significantly lower percentage of the cap than we did.

Lou should still bring back a great package....
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