Gillis. Who is He?

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Re: Gillis. Who is He?

Postby LotusBlossom » Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:43 am

old calamari wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:
Farhan Lalji wrote:although for the life of me, I do NOT understand Gillis' logic in making that Hodgson deal at the deadline this past year. Even if Hodgson's dad was a head case and Hodgson needed to be move, why on earth would one trade him for a "work in progress" like Zack Kassian?



Brilliant trade eh. Trading Hodgson for a player who was parked in the minors that has baggage. LOL! Wow.[/quote ]Talk about baggage how about the great Hodgson a player who lets daddy, agent, Roberts do his dirty work for him. Come back in 3 years and talk about this trade before you try to run your fukin smack. Malcontents need to be killed before they spread cancer in a team.


Not sure how much you guys watch the Sabres, but they are my eastern team. I cheer for them almost as much as I cheer for the Canucks...almost. I've seen Kassian play a bit more than some on these boards, and yes he is a work in progress, but he's got a good upside and he's got good size.

A trade like this takes time, and so far, all we know is that Cody...'could've' done this and 'could've' done that...no guarantees. No one has won or lost on this trade yet...but bashing that decision is kinda funny considering Cody got more ice time with the Sabres, didn't produce much until nearly the end, and found out that he was on the ice and partly responsible for goals getting past Miller and Enroth.
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Re: Gillis. Who is He?

Postby LotusBlossom » Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:45 am

donlever wrote:..has anyone yet mentioned his outside the box thinking with respect to sleep management, nutriiton, fitness regimes et cetera?

Forward thinking, pro-active, attention to detail, meticulous.

Has anyone noted his Mark Cuban like upgrades to the dressing rooms, weight rooms and his reaching out to make sure the players know they are appreciated, the environment they work in is grade fukin A and the team is there with respect to the needs of them and their families? (egos need this shit and don't kid yourself pro athletes have big fukin egos....)

Managing is not all about player acquisitions boys and girls...


This! The Canucks in the last 20 years have been forward thinkers in terms of what goes on off the ice...Gillis took it to a whole new level. He had players coming here taking pay-cuts (ala Hamhuis) because he's tried to make this organization more appealing to the talent pool of the NHL.

Thanks Donnie. That is often left out with the discussions of being a successful GM.
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Re: Gillis. Who is He?

Postby Island Nucklehead » Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:57 am

Farhan Lalji wrote:I like your viewpoint on the Hodgson deal, but why not make that deal in the off-season? Was Hodgson really THAT much of a lockerroom distraction? I don't think so.

I agree with your rationale that this deal was a "future potential" for another team's "future potential" (with both players perhaps being in a more appropriate fit in a different location), but let's face it. Hodgson WAS a lot further along the developmental curve than Kassian.


You're right on both counts. And I think had the Canucks not been on the ball with Pahlsson we would have seen Hodgson stick around til the offseason. Once that domino fell it made the trade easy.

Once the Canucks got Pahls'n, Cody's in the pressbox watch'n
If he's not going to play, he'll just bitch and complain,
you might as well trade him away!

IMO, Cody's value was probably quite high when the trade was made. All was forgotten about his slow, injury riddled development. If Gillis thought Kassian was a guy he wanted, why wait for the summer? Obviously they didn't expect Kassian to be an impact in the playoffs, but they may have thought he could've played some games? I'm not sure. Swapping rookies shouldn't be a big jolt to your team.

Given their different styles, I think Kassian will take some more time to develop. He's younger. He's got to learn how to use his big frame so his advantage (and we saw glimpses of it even this season). He's gotta grow into his body. And he's gotta make it all work against NHL players that will want to hurt him before he prison rapes them. For Hodgson to be effective he basically has to stay OUT of the exact areas Kassian is going into. However, this allows Kassian to develop either on the farm, or in the bottom-6. There's no need (re: pressure) for him to put up big points in a top-6 role, like there was with Hodgson.
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Re: Gillis. Who is He?

Postby wafflecombine » Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:46 am

Island Nucklehead wrote: Remember, Hodgson wasn't by any means a finished product, he was very much a "work in progress".

Basically, Gillis traded his future for another teams future. It was a hockey trade. Those short-sighted folk will scream that we didn't improve imidiately, but that's not looking after the future of the Franchise. Hodgson wasn't happy playing behind Kesler and Sedin long-term, and nobody can blame him because there was no way he'd supplant those guys. So, Gillis moved him for an asset the organization lacks. A big, mean, young, hard-nosed winger with potential.

Like some have said when the deal was made, this is a deal that can't be judged for at least a couple years. Hodgson wasn't going to win us a playoff series, and nor was Kassian. Personally, I figure a guy like Kassian will have more of an impact in the playoffs and is exactly the kind of player the Canucks have lacked for years. Bernier and Pyatt were big men with soft hearts. Kassian is a big man that wants to eat hearts...


I really liked Hodgson but those claiming oh wow, he could have won us the LA series need to reevaluate their logic. Pahlsson played a shut down role and played it very well. If we didn't have him do you let Cody take that role as the 3rd line center or do you demote Kelser? I think the line match ups for AV would have been harder and there is a reasonable chance that Cody, if the talk about is average defensive play is true, would have crumbled against Brown, Kopitar and whoever else he was matched up against.... or do you demote him to the energy line and 4 minutes a game. Sure that would have went over well too.

Regardless of how you cut it, Cody wasn't going to magically win us the series. I dont' even think making Schneids number 1 right off the batt wins us the series because our DEFENSE was unsound. That's the battle we lost.

I'll judge Kassian later in the upcoming season and in the year after. Once he is better trained in our system, goes through our conditioning training and has some experience with the guys I think he will be a fine catch. Also based on HW's post a while back concerning what the guys think of Kassian in the locker room, I seem to recall very positive, very humble things about him. I don't recall the same of Cody.

I hope Cody does well in Buffalo and I hope Kassian becomes a raging bull for us.
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Re: Gillis. Who is He?

Postby Arachnid » Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:48 am

donlever wrote:..has anyone yet mentioned his outside the box thinking with respect to sleep management, nutriiton, fitness regimes et cetera?

Forward thinking, pro-active, attention to detail, meticulous.

Has anyone noted his Mark Cuban like upgrades to the dressing rooms, weight rooms and his reaching out to make sure the players know they are appreciated, the environment they work in is grade fukin A and the team is there with respect to the needs of them and their families? (egos need this shit and don't kid yourself pro athletes have big fukin egos....)

Managing is not all about player acquisitions boys and girls...


Yeah, a bunch pampered overpaid (for a human-beings importance in life) brats that scream for some tough love from Mommy Gillis and Papa AV :evil:
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Re: Gillis. Who is He?

Postby dbr » Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:59 am

Farhan Lalji wrote:Why trade Hodgson for a "work in progress".........when your team, in its current "window" is a cup contending team...........for a player that "might" pan out in 18-24 months?


Why indeed. Is it possible your perception of the Canucks "window" differs from Gillis'?

Island Nucklehead wrote:IMO, Cody's value was probably quite high when the trade was made. All was forgotten about his slow, injury riddled development. If Gillis thought Kassian was a guy he wanted, why wait for the summer? Obviously they didn't expect Kassian to be an impact in the playoffs, but they may have thought he could've played some games? I'm not sure. Swapping rookies shouldn't be a big jolt to your team.


Let's not forget the Canucks spent a month or so organizing their entire roster around the priority of making Cody Hodgson look good at the NHL level - it's obviously not something they would have wanted to do for the remainder of the season.

Anyway to get back to the OP, what can we learn about who Mike Gillis is from the last chapter of the Hodgson saga?

At the end of it, he was a GM who identified a problem (Hodgson did not fit the makeup of the team and did not want to accept a role in line with his status as a rookie), identified the best possible solution (maximize Hodgson's value and then move him for a player who suits the needs of the organization) and proceeded to follow through on that despite the widespread unpopularity of the move.

He traded his first ever draft pick and the highest pick the Canucks have had in seven years (ironically the Canucks last two top ten draft picks are dead to us, albeit for different reasons) for a guy many have never heard of. Clearly not the actions of a man worried about public perception.
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Re: Gillis. Who is He?

Postby ESQ » Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:04 am

RoyalDude wrote:I mean, I guess you are right ESQ, guys like Burrows and Kesler were held back in their development not because of being,um, like inexperienced kids freshly out of teenagerville but because Dave Nonis was the general manager and sucked.

You may be right, but the fact that every player you've mentioned as a "Nonis Player" had a career year in 07/08 playing with Gillis' additions of actual top-line forwards instead of Isbister, Ritchie, etc.

Just curious, why haven't any of his kids (Draft Picks) turned into men yet, as he enters his 5th draft in a few weeks????
Because the team today is one of the best in the League today and doesn't need its kids to be rushed to the NHL. I thought that would have been obvious...
For reference to a real hockey team (as opposed to what Nonis put together), none of the Red Wings draft picks from the last 4 years have "turned into men", and have a combined 27 games. Since 2004, the Wings have turned THREE draft picks into regulars - Franzen, Helm and Abdelkader. Matthias became an NHLer through trade to the Panthers.

For your further reference, the Penguins have turned 4 "boys into men" since the 2005 draft - Crosby, Letang, Vitale from 2005, Staal from 2006....and that's it.

There's no question the 2004 Draft by Nonis was impressive, and possibly one of the most productive draft days of the decade. He had a late-1st, no 2nd or 7th RP and still got 4 solid NHLers. There's also no question that the 2007 was an unmitigated disaster, and ranks up there with the worst drafts in franchise history. Its also a shame that Nonis started trading away all half his picks every year, because he was getting good players with his 2nd and 3rd rounders.

Ya just think, that maybe Nonis has a better eye for talent?

Not when it comes to pro scouting, not by a longshot. It was because his eye for pro talent was so poor that his draft picks had to fill roster holes so early on in their careers, which is not what we're seeing with Gillis.
But nevermind that, when the fuck is Gillis gonna pull off Luongo-steal-like-trade that Nonis pulled off, once and for all solving our goaltending woes?

Sorry did I miss something, when did we have goaltending woes? I was under the impression we had the best 1-2 goalies in the league.
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Re: Gillis. Who is He?

Postby Diehard1 » Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:44 am

I'm not really sure what this thread is about - are we asking about Gillis' track record, how much we like/dislike the guy, what we think about his draft picks, what we think about his trades, etc? I really don't care about any of that, all I care about is the team's record.

Last year it was great, this year it was good but then the first round upset was a big problem, obviously.

The fact remains, from the standpoint of team success there's never been a 4 year period like the one Gillis has presided over. That's all I care about - who gives a shit about what Hockey's Future thinks about the team's young players, who gives a shit about who likes or dislikes the team, who gives a shit about his trades. It's all about results and Gillis has achieved them.

There are those who give Gillis shit for the team's inability to win a cup for 42 years - again, saying that's his problem is bat-shit crazy. He's responsible for the last 4 years, that's it.

One last thing - those who say the current team was assembled by Burkie because he drafted the twins, Kes, Bieksa, Edler, etc - does anybody remember how awful the team was in the late 90's when Burkie was around? They were almost as bad as Edmonton has been the last few years - got the 3rd overall pick (Henrik), got 4th overall one year (Bryan Allen) - just horrible. Those years have to be taken into account when looking at Burkie's era, they were awful and that's a huge reason he picked up the talent that he did. I wonder if people would give Gillis 3 years of awuful teams to pick up some talent as well?
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Re: Gillis. Who is He?

Postby Fred » Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:47 am

For reference to a real hockey team (as opposed to what Nonis put together), none of the Red Wings draft picks from the last 4 years have "turned into men", and have a combined 27 games. Since 2004, the Wings have turned THREE draft picks into regulars - Franzen, Helm and Abdelkader. Matthias became an NHLer through trade to the Panthers.


The Wings drafting great players in mostly a case of good luck. Check out the players they took in the draft before they stumbled on a good player. They took streams of players that never made it to the NHL and then get an actual gem in a lower round, having passed over them numerous times themselves. And of late nadda, zilch.

BB, DN & MG all Gm's for a period of time. Instructions I'm sure are issued by the GM's but they don't actually do a lot of scouting themselves. The constant is the amateur scouting staff. Who frankly I think have done reasonabley well and have found a couple of gems, Kesler & Schnieder....and a few bombs
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Re: Gillis. Who is He?

Postby donlever » Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:56 am

...here's what I know.

I've been a Canuck fan for a long, long time.

What I see in front of me is a team that has been to within a game of winning a Cup, has won the PT twice successively and should be in the running for the next 2-3 years at least.

I don't fukin care if Goofy is the GM and he took over from Sam fukin Pollock.

I have never, as a fan, been the beneficiary of such success over a short tenure at any time in all my years of following the team.

Carry on GMMG.

Thank you for your efforts.

Kudos and all the best to you.
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Re: Gillis. Who is He?

Postby Topper » Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:00 am

donlever wrote:..has anyone yet mentioned his outside the box thinking with respect to sleep management, nutriiton, fitness regimes et cetera?

I mentioned that I thought one of the most intriguing things in his post season presser was mentioning pushing that even further next season with something he has been working on for the past two years.
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Re: Gillis. Who is He?

Postby Potatoe1 » Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:42 am

Topper wrote:
donlever wrote:..has anyone yet mentioned his outside the box thinking with respect to sleep management, nutriiton, fitness regimes et cetera?

I mentioned that I thought one of the most intriguing things in his post season presser was mentioning pushing that even further next season with something he has been working on for the past two years.



I think that revolves around the European soccer stuff he's been talking about periodically in interviews.

I have heard him mention on several occasions that the top run football clubs look at players as an asset that they can develop and sell, it's a different philosophy that permeates through everything the managers try and do.
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Re: Gillis. Who is He?

Postby Diehard1 » Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:26 pm

donlever wrote:...here's what I know.

I've been a Canuck fan for a long, long time.

What I see in front of me is a team that has been to within a game of winning a Cup, has won the PT twice successively and should be in the running for the next 2-3 years at least.

I don't fukin care if Goofy is the GM and he took over from Sam fukin Pollock.

I have never, as a fan, been the beneficiary of such success over a short tenure at any time in all my years of following the team.

Carry on GMMG.

Thank you for your efforts.

Kudos and all the best to you.


Yep - I've been a fan since 1982 (I was 5) and been through more lean years than I can remember. This is as good as it gets for a hockey fan, having a chance at the cup every year is all you can ask for.
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Re: Gillis. Who is He?

Postby SKYO » Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:16 pm

wafflecombine wrote:
Island Nucklehead wrote: Hodgson wasn't going to win us a playoff series, and nor was Kassian. Personally, I figure a guy like Kassian will have more of an impact in the playoffs and is exactly the kind of player the Canucks have lacked for years. Bernier and Pyatt were big men with soft hearts. Kassian is a big man that wants to eat hearts...


I really liked Hodgson but those claiming oh wow, he could have won us the LA series need to reevaluate their logic.

Regardless of how you cut it, Cody wasn't going to magically win us the series.
I'll judge Kassian later in the upcoming season and in the year after. Once he is better trained in our system, goes through our conditioning training and has some experience with the guys I think he will be a fine catch. Also based on HW's post a while back concerning what the guys think of Kassian in the locker room, I seem to recall very positive, very humble things about him. I don't recall the same of Cody.

I hope Cody does well in Buffalo and I hope Kassian becomes a raging bull for us.


Regardless of how you slice it, Cody helped us in the scoring department even in those intense playoff like games vs Boston/Detroit/Chicago this past season, so with the severe lack of scoring the playoffs it's a wonder why we got an even more 'project like' player who clearly wasn't ready as Kass sat out, as he wasn't ready for the intense playoffs games. He should be better next season with MG's new offseason workout plan, more experience, more training etc.

Agreed with your last statement! :thumbs:

I just think this trade should have been done after the playoffs.

Anyways, we have a empty cupboard down the middle, hopefully this Alex Friesen guy can help with that, possibly be our own version of Colin Fraser of the future cup champs LA Kings.
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Re: Gillis. Who is He?

Postby Meds » Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:44 pm

Topper wrote:
donlever wrote:..has anyone yet mentioned his outside the box thinking with respect to sleep management, nutriiton, fitness regimes et cetera?

I mentioned that I thought one of the most intriguing things in his post season presser was mentioning pushing that even further next season with something he has been working on for the past two years.


Well hopefully that next level means that the team won't be practicing the sleep management portion of their regimes while on the ice for the last 3 months of the year..... :roll:

:P
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