Farhan's $0.05 - What about Luongo and Kesler to Carolina?

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Farhan's $0.05 - What about Luongo and Kesler to Carolina?

Postby Farhan Lalji » Fri May 25, 2012 6:39 pm

Farhan's $0.05 - What about Luongo and Kesler to Carolina?

Eddy Punch Clock - ya got your wish. I've upgraded to nickels. :P Unfortunately however - this is another "one of those" types of threads of mine and so I was probably better off keeping this as $0.02.

Anyway - first things first. This post is completely off the top of my head and I can't be arsed to see if it would work from a cap standpoint. Working 73 hours this week doesn't do wonders for me in terms of "doing my homework" (My apologies to the Artist Thinker if he's reading this :( ).

To Carolina: Roberto Luongo, Ryan Kesler,
To Vancouver: Eric Staal, Cam Ward

My basic thought is this:

-It's obvious that Gillis seemingly wants to build a team that is 'top heavy' in terms of its offensive production, while having a bottom 6 that is extremely defensively responsible and gritty. It's also obvious that the twins aren't getting any younger and that at some point, we'll need a new "top guy" to take over the reigns.

-Not only is Staal an upgrade over Kesler in terms of offensive production, but he's a better playmaker. Now all of a sudden, guys like Higgins and Booth go from being useless poo to guys that can put the puck in the net on a consistent basis. .....thanks to having a strong playmaker between them.

-The Hurricanes get an upgrade in goal and also get one of the best two way shut down forwards in the league. The Hurricanes struggled mightily last season with keeping the puck out of their net. Luongo and Kesler will definitely help them in this area. Luongo would also be ridiculously close to Florida.

THEN - the Canucks also package Corey Schneider for a top tier blue liner. Steve Yzerman definitely has an erection for Corey Schneider so why not cater to that? Victor Hedman comes back our way.

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Higgins-Staal-Booth
Hansen-Pahlsson-Kassian
Bitz-Lapierre-Weisse

Hedman-Edler
Hamhuis-Bieksa
Ballard-Tanev

Ward
Lack

Badda Bing Badda Boom. We win the cup thanks to good ol' Farhan's trade idea on the internet. You can thank me later. :D

Have a great weekend folks.
Farhan Lalji
 

Re: Farhan's $0.05 - What about Luongo and Kesler to Carolin

Postby CrzyCanuck » Fri May 25, 2012 7:00 pm

Seems like you reach orgasm whenever you have a trade inspiration like that. :shock:
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Re: Farhan's $0.05 - What about Luongo and Kesler to Carolin

Postby Eddy Punch Clock » Fri May 25, 2012 7:19 pm

God damned inflation!

:mrgreen:

Anyways, I have no faith in Ward. Keep Schneider and flip Ward with Raymond to TO for Gardiner and MacArthur?
2011..... the one that got away.
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Re: Farhan's $0.05 - What about Luongo and Kesler to Carolin

Postby RoyalDude » Fri May 25, 2012 8:02 pm

Farhan...I am concerned for you. What you need to do is what I did tonight, go to the Licky store, and purchase on your visa, a two-six of Stoli's Vodka, a bottle of Malbec wine and a half sack of Stella's beer, go home, make a vodka martini, shaken not stirred, with lemon twist...blast that back to warm the tummy to release all the stress from today putting you in perfect weekend mode and then blast into the beers right after, and by evening's end ya jump into the red wine. Just try not to go all native like Blob Mackenzie and keep ramping it up as the evening wears on. Drinking is an art form, do it gracefully.

You are losing it with these ridiculous trade scenarios.
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Re: Farhan's $0.05 - What about Luongo and Kesler to Carolin

Postby Farhan Lalji » Fri May 25, 2012 8:26 pm

RoyalDude wrote:Farhan...I am concerned for you. What you need to do is what I did tonight, go to the Licky store, and purchase on your visa, a two-six of Stoli's Vodka, a bottle of Malbec wine and a half sack of Stella's beer, go home, make a vodka martini, shaken not stirred, with lemon twist...blast that back to warm the tummy to release all the stress from today putting you in perfect weekend mode and then blast into the beers right after, and by evening's end ya jump into the red wine. Just try not to go all native like Blob Mackenzie and keep ramping it up as the evening wears on. Drinking is an art form, do it gracefully.

You are losing it with these ridiculous trade scenarios.


LOL.

Will do buddy. Atleast in spirit. :lol:

I'm off to bed early like an old 50+ year old man. I think the running joke amongst my friends is that I went a little too hardcore in my 20's and don't have much left these days.

Re-runs of Two and a Half Men and Family Guy + Pizza + bed time at 11:30 = perfect evening. :oops:
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Re: Farhan's $0.05 - What about Luongo and Kesler to Carolin

Postby rats19 » Fri May 25, 2012 8:52 pm

I can't stay up till 11:30 on new years ffs....lol
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Re: Farhan's $0.05 - What about Luongo and Kesler to Carolin

Postby CFP! » Fri May 25, 2012 9:33 pm

rats19 wrote:I can't stay up till 11:30 on new years ffs....lol


Must be the away games.
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Re: Farhan's $0.05 - What about Luongo and Kesler to Carolin

Postby Farhan Lalji » Fri May 25, 2012 10:12 pm

rats19 wrote:I can't stay up till 11:30 on new years ffs....lol


I hear ya, lol. I'm not that bad yet, but I can see myself getting to that stage one day.

To be honest though, I don't really have many regrets. I absolutely loved my 20's obviously and am loving my 30's even moreso......just in different ways. The times that I actually do go hardcore nowadays (once, maybe twice, per month) are more special.

p.s._____________But in all seriousness, lets get fucking Eric Staal. He'd be a stalwart here. A STALWART I tell ya.
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Re: Farhan's $0.05 - What about Luongo and Kesler to Carolin

Postby CFP! » Fri May 25, 2012 10:15 pm

Farhan Lalji wrote:_______But in all seriousness, lets get fucking Eric Staal. He'd be a stalwart here. A STALWART I tell ya.


I like that you have the time to think about these proposals.

My 30 second analysis gleams the proposal wont happen. Even Kesler and 1st probably wont get you Stall. Especially when Kesler would be their no#1 center. I have a Kesler Jersey, love the guy.....but Stall is a beast.
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Re: Farhan's $0.05 - What about Luongo and Kesler to Carolin

Postby Farhan Lalji » Fri May 25, 2012 10:21 pm

CFP! wrote:
Farhan Lalji wrote:_______But in all seriousness, lets get fucking Eric Staal. He'd be a stalwart here. A STALWART I tell ya.


I like that you have the time to think about these proposals.



The deal just came to my head while I was driving today (960 "The Fan" was talking about the Kesler/Vigneault situation, along with the inevitable Lou deal).

Staal is a beast but it would be Kesler AND Luongo. Maybe we can throw in a pick if that sweetens the deal.

My line of thinking was this: Staal, who's in the prime of his career, probably won't want to stick around on a shitty team like Carolina forever......especially if these guys aren't improving. Carolina isn't exactly Columbus, but what's stopping Staal from not doing what Nash is doing now in the future?
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Re: Farhan's $0.05 - What about Luongo and Kesler to Carolin

Postby Farhan Lalji » Fri May 25, 2012 10:24 pm

Farhan Lalji wrote:
The deal just came to my head while I was driving today (960 "The Fan" was talking about the Kesler/Vigneault situation, along with the inevitable Lou deal).


Having said that CFP, you're definitely right.

This deal obviously won't go down but I just thought it would be interesting I guess.

Carolina obviously needs some kind of change (depth?). Their Goals Against was absolutely atrocious. Luongo is an upgrade over Ward, and Kesler is far better defensively than Staal. Kesler, when healthy, isn't a slouch on offense either.
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Let me conclude by saying this: Is Luongo/Kesler for Staal/Ward unrealistic? Yes.

However - I think the CONCEPT of trading Luongo and Kesler for a slight upgrade at center and a slight down grade in goal.......combined with packaging Schneider for a top tier defenseman would serve the Canucks extremely well.

And you can quote me on that.
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Re: Farhan's $0.05 - What about Luongo and Kesler to Carolin

Postby Meds » Fri May 25, 2012 11:53 pm

First of all, the difference between Staal and Nash is a Stanley Cup ring and a whole lot more heart. So that's a bad comparisson. Staal has won with the 'Canes and there are some decent young pieces on that team whereas Columbus had some young players but none showed much hope of reaching their potential in the Jackets' system.

Secondly, Staal is an $8.2M cap hit for quite a few more years. If you take away his rookie season he boasts a career +/- of -27, and .97 points per game, the latter being quite respectable. However, when you consider that Crosby is only 3 years younger, boasts a career +80, and 1.4 points per game (and almost as many goals in nearly 200 fewer games), and has a cap hit of $8.7M, and then look at other players in the league who make less and produce more.....well I'm saying no to Staal based on his cap hit.

2 years ago Kesler put up only 4 fewer points than Staal but was a +24 compared to Staal's -10. This year Kesler played hurt, put up 20 fewer points than Staal, but was a +11 to Staal's -20.

Going forward I think that Kesler can be a 65-70 point scorer when healthy, while Staal is consistently going to be a 75-80 point guy. Kesler has proven that he can always be a plus player, whereas Staal has ended up on the minus side of the coin. I grant that Staal would likely have better numbers in that regard playing on a team like the Canucks compared to where he is now in Carolina. However, it still comes down to cap hit. Kesler is $5M. Staal is $8.2M. Are 10-15 points really worth $3.2M in cap space? That figure can land you a very winger that could play alot of 2nd and 3rd line minutes. And dollars to pucks will probably eclipse that 10-15 point margin quite handily.

I know you just like tossing these up here for shits and giggles Farhan, but you always seem to forget about the dollar signs attached to these guys in contrast to their actual production.
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Re: Farhan's $0.05 - What about Luongo and Kesler to Carolin

Postby Meds » Fri May 25, 2012 11:55 pm

Farhan Lalji wrote:However - I think the CONCEPT of trading Luongo and Kesler for a slight upgrade at center and a slight down grade in goal.......combined with packaging Schneider for a top tier defenseman would serve the Canucks extremely well.

And you can quote me on that.


Dudley would disagree with you, and he's a pretty good judge of hockey talent and what is key for a team.
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Re: Farhan's $0.05 - What about Luongo and Kesler to Carolin

Postby Farhan Lalji » Sat May 26, 2012 12:13 pm

Meds wrote:First of all, the difference between Staal and Nash is a Stanley Cup ring and a whole lot more heart. So that's a bad comparisson. Staal has won with the 'Canes and there are some decent young pieces on that team whereas Columbus had some young players but none showed much hope of reaching their potential in the Jackets' system.

Secondly, Staal is an $8.2M cap hit for quite a few more years. If you take away his rookie season he boasts a career +/- of -27, and .97 points per game, the latter being quite respectable. However, when you consider that Crosby is only 3 years younger, boasts a career +80, and 1.4 points per game (and almost as many goals in nearly 200 fewer games), and has a cap hit of $8.7M, and then look at other players in the league who make less and produce more.....well I'm saying no to Staal based on his cap hit.

2 years ago Kesler put up only 4 fewer points than Staal but was a +24 compared to Staal's -10. This year Kesler played hurt, put up 20 fewer points than Staal, but was a +11 to Staal's -20.

Going forward I think that Kesler can be a 65-70 point scorer when healthy, while Staal is consistently going to be a 75-80 point guy. Kesler has proven that he can always be a plus player, whereas Staal has ended up on the minus side of the coin. I grant that Staal would likely have better numbers in that regard playing on a team like the Canucks compared to where he is now in Carolina. However, it still comes down to cap hit. Kesler is $5M. Staal is $8.2M. Are 10-15 points really worth $3.2M in cap space? That figure can land you a very winger that could play alot of 2nd and 3rd line minutes. And dollars to pucks will probably eclipse that 10-15 point margin quite handily.

I know you just like tossing these up here for shits and giggles Farhan, but you always seem to forget about the dollar signs attached to these guys in contrast to their actual production.


Good points about the cap hit. The Staal idea was just completely off the top of my head.

Having said that - I think the CONCEPT of my idea is a good one...........and one that will serve the Canucks well moving into the future. Here are a few things that I believe to be truths:

1) While we will get a decent return on the inevitable Luongo deal, it's not going to be as much as people think.
2) Trading only one of Luongo or Schneider will not address our lack of depth
3) Kesler is a tremendous player but I believe that the presence of guys like Pahlsson, Lapierre, and even Malhottra if he sticks around will prevent the Canucks from ever using Kesler in the correct way moving forward (especially if these past playoffs were of any indication). Kesler can score goals, but he needs the type of guy going up against opposing top lines in a shut down role while scoring on turnovers/chances.........as opposed to being used in a role where he's thinking offense first. Kesler is not a natural offensive center, and him being used on that 2nd line will prevent guys like Booth and Higgins from being fully maximized.
4) The Canucks need a top tier center that can successfully take over the #1 center position in a few years when the Sedins' decline. Kesler isn't that guy, and neither was Cody Hodgson.
5) Canucks need a significant top 6 forward that can take pressure off of the twins, and a blue chip defenseman. Trading only one of Luongo and Schneider will not get this done.

Hence - with all this in mind, I believe that the Canucks would be best served by trading (Schneider/Luongo + Kesler) for an upgrade at the 2nd line position (while accepting a slight downgrade in the goaltending position), while trading either Schneider/Luongo to Tampa Bay with the expectation that Victor Hedman will come back our way.
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Re: Farhan's $0.05 - What about Luongo and Kesler to Carolin

Postby Farhan Lalji » Sat May 26, 2012 12:22 pm

Meds wrote:
Farhan Lalji wrote:However - I think the CONCEPT of trading Luongo and Kesler for a slight upgrade at center and a slight down grade in goal.......combined with packaging Schneider for a top tier defenseman would serve the Canucks extremely well.

And you can quote me on that.


Dudley would disagree with you, and he's a pretty good judge of hockey talent and what is key for a team.


I am curious Meds - why would he disagree?

-I think there are many ways to skin a cat. Yes - a superstar goalie is a tremendous luxury to have.........as teams such as Boston (Thomas), LA (Quick), NYR (Lundquist), and St. Louis (Price/Elliot) have proved in recent years, but a team can also succeed with a "decent" goaltending provided that the team in front is absolutely loaded. Chicago in 2010 and Detroit in 2008 are great examples of this. Look at how the Capitals were doing this year with their goalie that caught fire (either that, or was protected by an air-tight defensive system). In our case - even if we take a slight risk with a downgrade in net, we also have Eddie Lack waiting in the wings......and probably isn't too far off from being where we'd want him to be.

-Why would Dudley be opposed to the idea of upgrading our 2nd line center?.........a guy that can not only bring out more in his linemates via playmaking ability, but can bring more offensively and could easily take over Henrik's spot as #1 center when Henrik declines in a few years.

-Why would Dudley be opposed to using one of our current goalies to trade to Tampa for a deal involving Victor Hedman?..........a guy that can be a blue chip defenseman for many years to come?
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