Rookies and AV

[nuckster]

Does it come across as though AV is 'hard' on rookies? (no pun intended) He was handed a line-up which has had fairly seasoned players comprising the first and second lines..even the third... but there never seems to be any real 'master plan' with sticking by rookies to bring them along (and this means ample ice time).

I remember back in the day, the Oilers had a good team and yet they still supported having a 'kid line' which ended up excelling. I just don't get a sense that AV is patient with rookies and they seem to cycle in and out again without any long term opportunity. Maybe in all fairness to AV, we haven't been privy to having high end rookies (other than Hodgson arguably) to play with??

Thing is, if we want Kassian, or maybe Jensen, or other compatibles to progress and move forward, we need to give them ice time. If a coach slots the rookies in on the 4th line, is it really compromising the teams chances?? I haven't seen a lot out of any Canuck 4th line over the years that leads me to believe that we would be compromising anything? I am NOT an authority on this issue...and i think it would be good to hear how some of the other posters view this issue.

[Island Nucklehead]

Thing is, if we want Kassian, or maybe Jensen, or other compatibles to progress and move forward, we need to give them ice time. If a coach slots the rookies in on the 4th line, is it really compromising the teams chances?? I haven't seen a lot out of any Canuck 4th line over the years that leads me to believe that we would be compromising anything? I am NOT an authority on this issue...and i think it would be good to hear how some of the other posters view this issue.

Prospects generally develop better with more ice time, regardless of league. I don't think Jensen is better served playing 6 mins/night with Weise and Lapierre, if he could play 18/night with Schroeder.

[Madcombinepilot]

If we had enough top end talent I wouldnt mind mixing some youth into the lineup.

If your first 2 lines are consistent, and your 4th line actually has a few skills (in AV's case, he likes a shut down line, so Manny-lappy-phalson is his wet dream), if we then iced a kid line with Kassian-Schroeder-Jensen and they got 10-11 minutes a night, i would be strangly comfortable with that... or we can break them up and sprinkle them through the lineup...

[FAN]

I think AV is about average in terms of willingness to play rookies. He has his favourites. Fact is he's a coach of a veteran lineup and Cup contender. Coaches like that tend to be more interested in winning games than bringing rookies along. But AV seems pretty high on Jensen and he did put a lot of faith in Tanev so you can't say AV is unwilling to play rookies categorically.

Like most coaches, rookies who are defensively responsible tend to get more minutes than rookies who are not. Take Kassian, one bad giveaway and he was benched and scratched the next game. It's been a pattern with AV. What AV really doesn't seem to like are small skilled players who are defensive liabilities.

I would say that besides the guys AV coached in the AHL, Raymond has been the only rookie of note that has consistently gotten playing time and PP opportunities from AV. Of course, Raymond also benefitted from the team being devoid of offensive players when he was being brought up.

[Jovocop]

I think AV is about average in terms of willingness to play rookies. He has his favourites. Fact is he's a coach of a veteran lineup and Cup contender. Coaches like that tend to be more interested in winning games than bringing rookies along. But AV seems pretty high on Jensen and he did put a lot of faith in Tanev so you can't say AV is unwilling to play rookies categorically.

Like most coaches, rookies who are defensively responsible tend to get more minutes than rookies who are not. Take Kassian, one bad giveaway and he was benched and scratched the next game. It's been a pattern with AV. What AV really doesn't seem to like are small skilled players who are defensive liabilities.

I would say that besides the guys AV coached in the AHL, Raymond has been the only rookie of note that has consistently gotten playing time and PP opportunities from AV. Of course, Raymond also benefitted from the team being devoid of offensive players when he was being brought up.

To me, AV is a coach that emphasis a lot on defense. AV is okay with a rookie not producing offensively as long as he does not make a mistake in the defensive zone. Once a rookie makes a defensive error, he will sit the next period or even games.

[Topper]

AV places fundamental demands on all his players, rookies and vets alike. Don't measure up, make the same mistakes twice. Dog house time.

Remember that it was AV in the "Peg who brought along Bieksa, Kesler and Burrows.

[nuckster]

I think AV is about average in terms of willingness to play rookies. He has his favourites. Fact is he's a coach of a veteran lineup and Cup contender. Coaches like that tend to be more interested in winning games than bringing rookies along. But AV seems pretty high on Jensen and he did put a lot of faith in Tanev so you can't say AV is unwilling to play rookies categorically.

Like most coaches, rookies who are defensively responsible tend to get more minutes than rookies who are not. Take Kassian, one bad giveaway and he was benched and scratched the next game. It's been a pattern with AV. What AV really doesn't seem to like are small skilled players who are defensive liabilities.

I would say that besides the guys AV coached in the AHL, Raymond has been the only rookie of note that has consistently gotten playing time and PP opportunities from AV. Of course, Raymond also benefitted from the team being devoid of offensive players when he was being brought up.

To me, AV is a coach that emphasis a lot on defense. AV is okay with a rookie not producing offensively as long as he does not make a mistake in the defensive zone. Once a rookie makes a defensive error, he will sit the next period or even games.

Are most coaches like that?? or is it a case of AV being a little more punitive/harsh than the 'norm'? It's not like the vets/regulars aren't making mistakes. Logic would suggest that one has to be more forgiving with rookies. If a coach isn't forgiving, is making the line-up more a case of putting emphasis on not making mistakes over a player's potential/talent?

[nuckster]

AV places fundamental demands on all his players, rookies and vets alike. Don't measure up, make the same mistakes twice. Dog house time.

Remember that it was AV in the "Peg who brought along Bieksa, Kesler and Burrows.

Good point!

[Strangelove]

AV places fundamental demands on all his players, rookies and vets alike. Don't measure up, make the same mistakes twice. Dog house time.

It's not that I'm saying I don't not-disagree.

But at times it seems AV is an asshole to all of the players some of the time.

Other times it seems AV is an asshole to some of the players all of the time.

A good coach is an asshole to ALL of the players ALL of the time.

Not sure if that came out right, let me put it this way:

AV is too nice of a guy and if Gillis weren't such a nice guy he'd fire his ass.

Hey both these guys abided well with Ryan FUCKING Walter for two full seasons!

Guess what I'm saying is FUCK AV AND GILLIS WITH A RED-HOT POKER EACH.