Rookies and AV

Welcome to the main forum of our site. Anything and everything to do with the Vancouver Canucks is dicussed and debated here.

Moderator: Referees

Rookies and AV

Postby nuckster » Tue May 01, 2012 10:29 am

Does it come across as though AV is 'hard' on rookies? (no pun intended) He was handed a line-up which has had fairly seasoned players comprising the first and second lines..even the third... but there never seems to be any real 'master plan' with sticking by rookies to bring them along (and this means ample ice time).

I remember back in the day, the Oilers had a good team and yet they still supported having a 'kid line' which ended up excelling. I just don't get a sense that AV is patient with rookies and they seem to cycle in and out again without any long term opportunity. Maybe in all fairness to AV, we haven't been privy to having high end rookies (other than Hodgson arguably) to play with??

Thing is, if we want Kassian, or maybe Jensen, or other compatibles to progress and move forward, we need to give them ice time. If a coach slots the rookies in on the 4th line, is it really compromising the teams chances?? I haven't seen a lot out of any Canuck 4th line over the years that leads me to believe that we would be compromising anything? I am NOT an authority on this issue...and i think it would be good to hear how some of the other posters view this issue.
cc oldtimer
nuckster
CC Veteran
 
Posts: 161
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:35 am

Re: Rookies and AV

Postby Island Nucklehead » Tue May 01, 2012 3:19 pm

nuckster wrote:
Thing is, if we want Kassian, or maybe Jensen, or other compatibles to progress and move forward, we need to give them ice time. If a coach slots the rookies in on the 4th line, is it really compromising the teams chances?? I haven't seen a lot out of any Canuck 4th line over the years that leads me to believe that we would be compromising anything? I am NOT an authority on this issue...and i think it would be good to hear how some of the other posters view this issue.


Prospects generally develop better with more ice time, regardless of league. I don't think Jensen is better served playing 6 mins/night with Weise and Lapierre, if he could play 18/night with Schroeder.
User avatar
Island Nucklehead
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 3496
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 2:27 pm

Re: Rookies and AV

Postby Madcombinepilot » Tue May 01, 2012 3:42 pm

If we had enough top end talent I wouldnt mind mixing some youth into the lineup.

If your first 2 lines are consistent, and your 4th line actually has a few skills (in AV's case, he likes a shut down line, so Manny-lappy-phalson is his wet dream), if we then iced a kid line with Kassian-Schroeder-Jensen and they got 10-11 minutes a night, i would be strangly comfortable with that... or we can break them up and sprinkle them through the lineup...
The 'Chain of Command' is the chain I am going to beat you with untill you understand I am in charge.
User avatar
Madcombinepilot
MVP
MVP
 
Posts: 1917
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 9:54 am
Location: Saskatoon, Sk.

Re: Rookies and AV

Postby FAN » Tue May 01, 2012 3:48 pm

I think AV is about average in terms of willingness to play rookies. He has his favourites. Fact is he's a coach of a veteran lineup and Cup contender. Coaches like that tend to be more interested in winning games than bringing rookies along. But AV seems pretty high on Jensen and he did put a lot of faith in Tanev so you can't say AV is unwilling to play rookies categorically.

Like most coaches, rookies who are defensively responsible tend to get more minutes than rookies who are not. Take Kassian, one bad giveaway and he was benched and scratched the next game. It's been a pattern with AV. What AV really doesn't seem to like are small skilled players who are defensive liabilities.

I would say that besides the guys AV coached in the AHL, Raymond has been the only rookie of note that has consistently gotten playing time and PP opportunities from AV. Of course, Raymond also benefitted from the team being devoid of offensive players when he was being brought up.
FAN
CC 2nd Team All-Star
 
Posts: 341
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:55 pm

Re: Rookies and AV

Postby Jovocop » Tue May 01, 2012 4:02 pm

FAN wrote:I think AV is about average in terms of willingness to play rookies. He has his favourites. Fact is he's a coach of a veteran lineup and Cup contender. Coaches like that tend to be more interested in winning games than bringing rookies along. But AV seems pretty high on Jensen and he did put a lot of faith in Tanev so you can't say AV is unwilling to play rookies categorically.

Like most coaches, rookies who are defensively responsible tend to get more minutes than rookies who are not. Take Kassian, one bad giveaway and he was benched and scratched the next game. It's been a pattern with AV. What AV really doesn't seem to like are small skilled players who are defensive liabilities.

I would say that besides the guys AV coached in the AHL, Raymond has been the only rookie of note that has consistently gotten playing time and PP opportunities from AV. Of course, Raymond also benefitted from the team being devoid of offensive players when he was being brought up.


To me, AV is a coach that emphasis a lot on defense. AV is okay with a rookie not producing offensively as long as he does not make a mistake in the defensive zone. Once a rookie makes a defensive error, he will sit the next period or even games.
User avatar
Jovocop
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 1565
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:18 pm

Re: Rookies and AV

Postby Topper » Tue May 01, 2012 4:08 pm

AV places fundamental demands on all his players, rookies and vets alike. Don't measure up, make the same mistakes twice. Dog house time.

Remember that it was AV in the "Peg who brought along Bieksa, Kesler and Burrows.
Over the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone or anything.

I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.
User avatar
Topper
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 4260
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 8:11 pm
Location: Earth, most days.

Re: Rookies and AV

Postby nuckster » Tue May 01, 2012 4:11 pm

Jovocop wrote:
FAN wrote:I think AV is about average in terms of willingness to play rookies. He has his favourites. Fact is he's a coach of a veteran lineup and Cup contender. Coaches like that tend to be more interested in winning games than bringing rookies along. But AV seems pretty high on Jensen and he did put a lot of faith in Tanev so you can't say AV is unwilling to play rookies categorically.

Like most coaches, rookies who are defensively responsible tend to get more minutes than rookies who are not. Take Kassian, one bad giveaway and he was benched and scratched the next game. It's been a pattern with AV. What AV really doesn't seem to like are small skilled players who are defensive liabilities.

I would say that besides the guys AV coached in the AHL, Raymond has been the only rookie of note that has consistently gotten playing time and PP opportunities from AV. Of course, Raymond also benefitted from the team being devoid of offensive players when he was being brought up.


To me, AV is a coach that emphasis a lot on defense. AV is okay with a rookie not producing offensively as long as he does not make a mistake in the defensive zone. Once a rookie makes a defensive error, he will sit the next period or even games.


Are most coaches like that?? or is it a case of AV being a little more punitive/harsh than the 'norm'? It's not like the vets/regulars aren't making mistakes. Logic would suggest that one has to be more forgiving with rookies. If a coach isn't forgiving, is making the line-up more a case of putting emphasis on not making mistakes over a player's potential/talent?
cc oldtimer
nuckster
CC Veteran
 
Posts: 161
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:35 am

Re: Rookies and AV

Postby nuckster » Tue May 01, 2012 4:12 pm

Topper wrote:AV places fundamental demands on all his players, rookies and vets alike. Don't measure up, make the same mistakes twice. Dog house time.

Remember that it was AV in the "Peg who brought along Bieksa, Kesler and Burrows.

Good point!
cc oldtimer
nuckster
CC Veteran
 
Posts: 161
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:35 am

Re: Rookies and AV

Postby Strangelove » Tue May 01, 2012 6:43 pm

Topper wrote:AV places fundamental demands on all his players, rookies and vets alike. Don't measure up, make the same mistakes twice. Dog house time.


It's not that I'm saying I don't not-disagree.

But at times it seems AV is an asshole to all of the players some of the time.

Other times it seems AV is an asshole to some of the players all of the time.

A good coach is an asshole to ALL of the players ALL of the time.

Not sure if that came out right, let me put it this way:

AV is too nice of a guy and if Gillis weren't such a nice guy he'd fire his ass.

Hey both these guys abided well with Ryan FUCKING Walter for two full seasons!

Guess what I'm saying is FUCK AV AND GILLIS WITH A RED-HOT POKER EACH. :devil:

Strangelove: The Peoples Poster
User avatar
Strangelove
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 5906
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2004 1:13 pm


Return to Canucks Corner Chat

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 10 guests