2012 Post-Mortem thoughts

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Re: 2012 Post-Mortem thoughts

Postby Lancer » Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:40 am

1st and 3rd lines are fine. Why not keep Pahlsson around for another 1-2 years?

As for the 2nd line, it comes down to whether management thinks Kesler can not only physically get back ot the shape he had last year, but stay healthy in the playoffs? If his hip will never recuperate to the way it was before, or if his body is too banged up for him to play the way he needs to play in the playoffs, time to trade him now while his value is high.

Don't get me wrong, I love what Kesler brings to the table. He has a fire in his play that counter-balances the quiet confidence of the Twins and how do you replace what a Selke-winner brings? If he can use this off-season to get his hip (and shoulder?) strong enough to come back and maintain his level play, I won't have to retire my Kesler jersey. Thing is, the Canucks need that secondary scoring and Kes just didn't provide. If he can't prove that he can physically provide it, may as well try and replace his offense even if it means at the expense of his defensive prowess.

The problem with tinkering with the D is that every other team has been chasing capable defensemen all year, so Gillis may overpay for what little is available this offseason. Better to nurture the guys they have. The only question mark is Edler. Can they get his head screwed on straight come next year's playoffs, and who can Gillis replace him with?
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Re: 2012 Post-Mortem thoughts

Postby Jovocop » Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:53 am

Lancer wrote:The problem with tinkering with the D is that every other team has been chasing capable defensemen all year, so Gillis may overpay for what little is available this offseason. Better to nurture the guys they have. The only question mark is Edler. Can they get his head screwed on straight come next year's playoffs, and who can Gillis replace him with?


If MG could not fix the defense this offseason, he could probably make a trade at the beginning of the season (something like a Booth trade). However, I still think that one of our goalies will be traded for defensive help.

Just a few questions about the secondary scoring, how much of the Canucks' offense was generating from the defense? The Canucks relied so much on the transition play. Did the defensive problem also affect the offense?
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Re: 2012 Post-Mortem thoughts

Postby herb » Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:01 am

Kesler will be fine with a full off season of training and getting back to shooting 50 billion pucks a day.

I really think people are discounting Kesler not being able to focus on training for a full year. He's a string bean at the best of times, and the guy looks gaunt in several pictures I have seen of him lately.

Over the off season guys heal wounds, build up muscle and get the cardio and legs where they need to be. Over a long ass season, these guys are battling to not lose 10-20 pounds. Sure there's the odd workout, but with 3-4 games a week, it is just not possible to put in the training hours required to maintain pre-season weight. Kesler did nothing but sit on the couch and rehab last summer and into the fall. This year we saw a bit more of a tentative version of Ryan Kesler, but once he builds back up his leg and core strength, I think we'll see the confident Kesler return.
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Re: 2012 Post-Mortem thoughts

Postby wafflecombine » Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:12 am

The Canucks weren't defensively sound this year on top of not scoring goals. Its no conincidence that 3 defense first teams in the West have moved on.

One thing that will help ALL TEAMS would be an increase in the consistency and quality of reffing. How the rules were called changed 3 separate times this year and will change again going into round two. A penalty called in game 1 of the season should be the same as a penalty called in game 7 of a series. Yeah we can gripe "let'em play" or any of our other catch phrase slogans but with consistency, teams can adjust and fine tune their play and we, the fans will still be very entertained.

I doubt it'll happen but its still my hope for 2012/13.
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Re: 2012 Post-Mortem thoughts

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:17 am

I don't wat to see Pahlsson back unless they turf one of Lappy or Manny ?

How many checking centres do you need ?

They should be looking for a 3rd line centre that is decent defensively and can actually make a few plays in the other teams end.
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Re: 2012 Post-Mortem thoughts

Postby Aaronp18 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:20 am

Manny retires as a player and is hired as a faceoff coach.

:thumbs:
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Re: 2012 Post-Mortem thoughts

Postby Lancer » Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:21 am

Jovocop wrote:If MG could not fix the defense this offseason, he could probably make a trade at the beginning of the season (something like a Booth trade). However, I still think that one of our goalies will be traded for defensive help.


With what valuable trade options Gillis has, where's the most pressing problem - getting a slightly better D addition or a significantly better 2nd line offense option?

Jovocop wrote:Just a few questions about the secondary scoring, how much of the Canucks' offense was generating from the defense? The Canucks relied so much on the transition play. Did the defensive problem also affect the offense?


Part of the problem with LA is the D could not handle the Kings forecheck. The other part was they didn't effectively box out forwards at times. I think that can be handled with better coaching from Bowness and crew with perhaps signing an applicable creas-clearer. That said, if a home-run opportunity (like Weber, pipe-dream I know) then Gillis should really consider it.

herb wrote:I really think people are discounting Kesler not being able to focus on training for a full year.


I honestly hope Kesler does fully recuperate, and I think he can. Gillis and the medical staff know more about the situation, though. If they're not convinced that a full summer of rehab and training can get him back to last year's form and keep him there, then they have to look at replacing him.
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Re: 2012 Post-Mortem thoughts

Postby ESQ » Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:22 am

damonberryman wrote:Trading Hodgson is going to set this team back. When will we learn to give young talents time?

You mean, young talents like Kassian?

From Gillis' end of season presser - he spent more time on Cody's issues than on all of the other players combined over 3 years.

There were 6-7 players in the league they'd have traded Cody for, and Kassian was one of them.

I'm with you though on Kesler not being untouchable. However, last off-season would have been the time to move him as his stock was at an all-time high after Nashville. That being said, nobody in their right mind thought Kesler would come back from that surgery and be able to win a playoff round single-handedly. He will bounce back next year, but your return has to be enormous to move him. I'd be looking at straight-up for Weber kind of deal.
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Re: 2012 Post-Mortem thoughts

Postby Jovocop » Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:47 am

ESQ wrote:
damonberryman wrote:Trading Hodgson is going to set this team back. When will we learn to give young talents time?

You mean, young talents like Kassian?

From Gillis' end of season presser - he spent more time on Cody's issues than on all of the other players combined over 3 years.

There were 6-7 players in the league they'd have traded Cody for, and Kassian was one of them.

I'm with you though on Kesler not being untouchable. However, last off-season would have been the time to move him as his stock was at an all-time high after Nashville. That being said, nobody in their right mind thought Kesler would come back from that surgery and be able to win a playoff round single-handedly. He will bounce back next year, but your return has to be enormous to move him. I'd be looking at straight-up for Weber kind of deal.


MG also said something like he did not feel that Hodgson wanted to be here.
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Re: 2012 Post-Mortem thoughts

Postby Waffle » Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:49 pm

The information that Kessler has a shoulder problem is very unnerving. Unfortunately we are not given any information about what the problem is, so its anyone's guess as to what his future holds. Hopefully they can decide quickly whether or not it can be fixed surgically, and if he needs surgery, they press forward. The second worse case scenario is that he seems to be better, and then gets worse next year in training camp/early season and has to have surgery then. The worse case scenario is that he has surgery and doesn't get better.

If his shoulder heals, you get back the two way center you are paying for, and second line offence becomes less of an issue.

If it doesn't heal, then you have a very good third line defensive center who may chip in offensively from time to time like he did this year, but you need another offensively talented center who can play in the NHL because I don't see one anywhere in the Canucks system currently.

Either way I wonder if you want him taking all the abuse standing in front of the net on the first unit power play, especially during all the time the rest of the PP unit fiddles around with the puck without taking shots on net. I am guessing you don't, and that you are looking to see who else can perform that role.
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Re: 2012 Post-Mortem thoughts

Postby Eddy Punch Clock » Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:52 pm

Aaronp18 wrote:Manny retires as a player and is hired as a faceoff coach.

:thumbs:


Yeah, I wonder if coaching is a direction Manny want's to go post NHL. He's probably got what it takes.

Meh, but what do I know? I predicted a long time ago that Larionov would be the first Russian coach in the NHL. :lol:
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Re: 2012 Post-Mortem thoughts

Postby donlever » Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:55 pm

Waffle wrote:
Either way I wonder if you want him taking all the abuse standing in front of the net on the first unit power play, especially during all the time the rest of the PP unit fiddles around with the puck without taking shots on net. I am guessing you don't, and that you are looking to see who else can perform that role.


First up next year some dude named Kassian.

Kes on 2nd unit PP (with Parise :D ).

Hence spreading the wealth.
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Re: 2012 Post-Mortem thoughts

Postby Potatoe1 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:59 pm

Waffle wrote:The information that Kessler has a shoulder problem is very unnerving. Unfortunately we are not given any information about what the problem is, so its anyone's guess as to what his future holds. Hopefully they can decide quickly whether or not it can be fixed surgically, and if he needs surgery, they press forward. The second worse case scenario is that he seems to be better, and then gets worse next year in training camp/early season and has to have surgery then. The worse case scenario is that he has surgery and doesn't get better.

If his shoulder heals, you get back the two way center you are paying for, and second line offence becomes less of an issue.

If it doesn't heal, then you have a very good third line defensive center who may chip in offensively from time to time like he did this year, but you need another offensively talented center who can play in the NHL because I don't see one anywhere in the Canucks system currently.



It's pretty common for players to need surgery, I'm not sure why you are unnerved of this particular injury which obviously isn't all that serious given he played with it for 2 months.

If anything this should come as a relief for people as his hip still giving him problems would bee a far bigger concern.
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Re: 2012 Post-Mortem thoughts

Postby Waffle » Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:12 pm

Well Pot:

Injury severe enough that you obviously need surgery? You are right, most surgeries are successful, and only a small chance of poor outcome.

Injury that causes you to miss games but heals with treatment? No problem. But if it was this type of injury, why wouldn't they have rested him the last games of the season (unlike the hip problem this didn't just happen in the playoffs).

Injury that you play through and doesn't obviously need surgery but doesn't get better with treatment, or gets better with rest and treatment? Reasonable chance that it will recur when you start doing the things that caused it to begin with, and that surgery may not fix it. That's the reason for the onset of my anxiety.
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Re: 2012 Post-Mortem thoughts

Postby Eddy Punch Clock » Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:15 pm

donlever wrote:
Waffle wrote:
Either way I wonder if you want him taking all the abuse standing in front of the net on the first unit power play, especially during all the time the rest of the PP unit fiddles around with the puck without taking shots on net. I am guessing you don't, and that you are looking to see who else can perform that role.


First up next year some dude named Kassian.


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