2012 Post-Mortem thoughts

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Re: 2012 Post-Mortem thoughts

Postby Boston Canucker » Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:57 pm

The other question Gillis will seek to answer is how close are the young players, Connataun, Schroeder, even Jensen. Maybe they are still at least a year off, buf the emergence of a few more young guys would also bring some new dynamics to the team. I'm particularly interested to see if one or both of Schroeder and Jensen to provide some more snipe possibilities.
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Re: 2012 Post-Mortem thoughts

Postby tantalum » Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:01 pm

Jensen is interesting. He had a good camp last year and he has performed well in Chicago it seems. Problem is he will still have to play in the OHL next season if his team wants him and won't be able to play in the AHL. Another year of junior never hurt anyone but it would be nice to see him get more pro experience next year.

Schroeder will be given every chance to shar 3rd/4th line duties.
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Re: 2012 Post-Mortem thughts

Postby mathonwy » Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:11 pm

ESQ wrote:
mathonwy wrote:The only thing that really needs to be figured out this summer is, is it going to be Luo or is it going to be Schneid. Other than that, I am ok with the group going forward.

You know, I thought this too, and I saw Boston Canuck post something similar in another thread. That's particularly interesting from BC, because we have almost the identical goalie make-up to the Bruins, even down to the cap hits, and it worked out alright.

Under the rising cap, Schneider at $2 million as back-up/tandem is actually quite manageable. With less workload you might see less pressure on Luongo as well if he does say.

Not saying its a sure thing, but if there isn't a good return on the trade market I wouldn't be surprised to see both stay.

The real question is, how does Cory and Luo REALLY feel?

All the information that we the fans have been getting about the two guys is hearsay from the media and conclusions we make up in our own mind.

The traditional hockey mentality is such that you have a #1 and #2 goalie. Primary and backup. But that's tradition and what really matters is what is reality. Right now, none of us fans know what reality is so it's all just speculation at this point of time (unless your name is H Dub).

Does Luo really want to be the primary guy or has he turned over a new leaf and is more concerned about team success. This past year, he has towed the party line the entire year. May be it's reality? May be it's acting. Bottom line, we don't know.

From a fan perspective, it's hard not to believe the media hype about the goalie controversy in Vancouver. "Cory wants to be the man" "Luo is tired of all the bullshit and feels disrespected" Blah blah blah. At the end of it all, I just care about winning.

I'd love to see Cory take the reins and Luo get dealt to improve our top 6.

I'd love to see the organization be loyal to Luo (because he HAS deserved it) and deal Cory to improve our top 3.

I'd love to see us qualify Cory and once again have the best 1/2 punch in net for the 12/13 season.

These are all winning options to me.
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Re: 2012 Post-Mortem thoughts

Postby Hockey Widow » Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:58 pm

If we can find or if we have a 2nd line offensive centre then the team does not need to do too much after that. Kesler can and probably should drop back to the third line role, a line that can shut down but also contribute offensively. Schroeder is the guy I am thinking about. If he can come to camp and anchor a second line this allows us to move Kesler down to the third line. The Canucks tried it with Cody but only for a handful of games. I am thinking we need to let the kid run with it. I mean hell all we need to do is win our division next year right?


I'm fine with letting Raymond walk.

We have enough pieces to make a 4th line so no more plumbers please. But If Schroeder can fit in then another top six would be nice.

On the back end, ya we need a fix. The defence never looked good all year, not like last year at all. It was more than losing Ehrhoff. I think the mix is wrong and thats where we need a bold move.

And ya, we may end up keeping both goalies for another year. But if not trading one of them may help us fill in some pieces. I doubt there is any controversy at all on the team with respect to goalies. Just questions management need to ask moving forward.
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Re: 2012 Post-Mortem thoughts

Postby Fred » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:20 pm

HW I have to believe you're on the right track IMO I posted this earlier

by Fred on Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:55 am

In a Cap era there has to be value placed on all players like it or not. IMO the 'Nucks have to many players of the same skill set. Maybe Keslers days as a centre have come to an end, ( and if so the question has to be asked why did they trade Hodgson ) assuming there's a skilled centre out there they can get hold of. Richards went to the NYR, TO on the other hand had to settle on Connolly. Right now the team has no 2nd line threat, teams/coaches are at last coming to terms with the Sedins style. You can list players that you want to get rid of but that's mostly because they're average and have duplicate skills. Some players are playing roles that they're not suited for or we're trying to get some thing out of them they don't have. Of all the forwards we have ONE play maker and then a list of average wingers. It's just a case of pickum and this is where the value part comes in.
Most of all the Pro scouts have to be changed up. Eric Crawford ( he of the Kassian is great brigade ) and Lorne Henning. Either they're getting the wrong instructions as to what we need or they're unable to spot a hockey puck at fifty paces.

IMO every line would preferably consist of a play maker, a shooter, and a corner man. Our current 2nd line has an entire line of shooters, individuals.

There has to be a re think of what we need going forward, identify the best of that bunch and do what ever is required to find/obtain one, and to me it's a play making centre. The team became, apparently by choice, a one line team again

The next questions is will Schroeder be that player or is the shelf life of the Sedins so short that we need to find a ready made play maker, can we afford to let Schroeder a year to settle in.

The Canucks had some thing special but it's slipping away. Yes they won the Presidents trophy but IMO from the Boston game forward it was a lot of smoke and mirrors, good fortune rather than good play.

If Mike Gillis is to be "the man" it's going to interesting to see what his reaction is this summer. I doubt if we're going to hear much more than the party line, but it's his action that will do the talking.

The defence has some skill but frankly opposing players have little fear to the Canucks crease. The skill set is average to above average. There 4 keepers IMO Edler, Bieska, Tanev and Hamhuis....the rest you can find similar skills any where. To much and to many journeymen D rather than bring replacements ar required up from the minors in case of injury.

Goal tending which ever way you go you win as long as it includes Schneider
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Re: 2012 Post-Mortem thoughts

Postby Waffle » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:29 pm

I was thinking about the centers on the teams that have advanced from the west:

LA: Kopitar, Richards, Stoll, Fraser
Phoenix: Langkow, Vermette, Chipchura, Gordon
Preds: Fisher, Legwand, Gaustad, Saplling
Blues: Backes, Berglund, Nichol, ?Arnott

If you think Kessler is really a third line center, it makes me wonder what the Canucks really need to have a productive second line. Of course there is a difference between making the second round and winning the SC.
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Re: 2012 Post-Mortem thoughts

Postby FAN » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:45 pm

Fred, Kesler is valuable for his Selke calibre defense and he is most effective as a center. Moving him to wing will reduce his effectiveness especially in AV's system where the center has the greatest defensive responsibilities.

HW, it's too late for the whole 2nd line center business. With Henrik in his prime, Kesler is the team's 2nd line center whether he plays more of a shutdown role or offensive role. Kesler isn't paid $5M a year to be the team's 3rd line shutdown center. Kesler is paid to shutdown the opposition and score at the same time. We saw what happened when Hodgson was here and producing. Giving Hodgson the more offensively-capable winges stunted Kesler's line. Had Gillis not traded Hodgson the team could of had three scoring lines with a shutdown 4th line but I don't think AV likes that. AV wants his 3rd line to be more of a shutdown line with a 4th line more of physical hitting line.

Henrik's line is going to play. Kesler's line is going to play. So regardless of Kesler's role, there isn't going to be another center besides Henrik who plays as many minutes whether you call kesler's line the team's 2nd line or 3rd line.
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Re: 2012 Post-Mortem thoughts

Postby Per » Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:36 am

An article over at nhl.com lists Daniel's concussion as the #1 reason the Canucks lost to the LA Kings:

No one wants to use injuries as an excuse, and it's true the best teams are able to overcome them, but it's hard to ignore the absence of top goal scorer Daniel Sedin, especially after watching his impact immediately upon returning.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=6292 ... L|NHL|home

Can't say that I disagree.
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Re: 2012 Post-Mortem thoughts

Postby damonberryman » Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:56 am

Going back to the early part of the season I made the suggestion Kes might be the one to trade. Since then all I have seen is more evidence of this being true. Get rid of him. He is a prima donna and a cry baby. He dives all the time and gives the team a bad name. It is somewhat acceptable if he scores but he does not. I tell you he is waiting for his press clips to do the work.

Trading Hodgson is going to set this team back. When will we learn to give young talents time? Since the trade we had no secondary scoring and very little primary. Going in to the playoffs I kept looking at my team and asking myself 'what is special about them'? and the answer never came. Now I have it. Nothing.

Chris Neil on his own with his stupid mug and big mouth has more heart than our whole team. Henrik tried but he cannot do it by himself. Edler was a joke and Bieksa did nothing. Is it bad coaching or are all the critics of this team right? THey accept losing. "We played well, coulda won, other team was very good" and so on. WTF?
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Re: 2012 Post-Mortem thoughts

Postby CrzyCanuck » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:04 am

all these talks about that Hodgson could have been the saviour, the missing scoring source here is cracking me up so hard.

/shakes head
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Re: 2012 Post-Mortem thoughts

Postby Arachnid » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:23 am

CrzyCanuck wrote:all these talks about that Hodgson could have been the saviour, the missing scoring source here is cracking me up so hard.

/shakes head


I know eh?! :lol: Oh well makes for a great laugh, in Buffalo they are ready to run CoHo out of town for being a locker room Prima Dona cancer, sucking the wind out of their sails and not getting them into the playoffs... 8-)
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Re: 2012 Post-Mortem thughts

Postby dangler » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:45 am

dbr wrote:There are also philosophical questions about the make-up of the team. To me the most important one is, do you want to build this team to lean heavily on three or four forwards to generate offense or do you want to build it to spread scoring around the lineup? If it's the former do the Sedins and Ryan Kesler need another top level scorer, and if it's the latter are two checking lines really going to help these efforts?


The second line is the big question for me,like dbr says,if they decide on having the 3rd line being a shutdown line (which it looks like they have)then you rely heavily on 3 or 4 forwards to generate your offense.That didn't work out so well with Daniels injury and Kesler and Booth not contributing.The 2nd line is the largest issue by far IMO,if Kesler was recovering from his off-season surgery wtf was he doing coming back so soon? As someone said in another thread,he seems to be riding the success he had in the Nash. series.He's effective when he plays balls-to-the-wall but that style of play leaves him injured far too often,Booth,while being a fine athlete,great size,speed....only has one play,drive to the net,ands its not effective nearly enough in reg. season let alone playoffs.
Defense,it'd be nice to snag another top d-man,but not critical

Goal-no problema,whether Lou go's now or sticks around for another season or two is not an issue,his play on and professionalism off the ice this season have allowed me to forgive him for last year.


coaching-if it would help people feel better,maybe they should get Bowness and AV to trade places for a year :D
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Re: 2012 Post-Mortem thoughts

Postby Potatoe1 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:52 am

Hockey Widow wrote:If we can find or if we have a 2nd line offensive centre then the team does not need to do too much after that. Kesler can and probably should drop back to the third line role, a line that can shut down but also contribute offensively. Schroeder is the guy I am thinking about. If he can come to camp and anchor a second line this allows us to move Kesler down to the third line. The Canucks tried it with Cody but only for a handful of games. I am thinking we need to let the kid run with it. I mean hell all we need to do is win our division next year right?


If management does not believe in Keslers ability to create offence at a second line level then they should trade him ASAP.

Despite his disastrous season he is still regarded as an elite player around the league and the return for him would be significant.

That said trading Kesler a few months after trading Hodgson would make management like like a bunch of bumblecunts so it isn't going to happen.

As far as Schroder goes, his AHL numbers are terrible (44 points in 76 games) expecting him to be even close to a second line spot offensively is wishful thinking at best.
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Re: 2012 Post-Mortem thoughts

Postby the Dogsalmon » Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:07 am

Schroeder is a peanut who will get killed playing with the men in the NHL...
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Re: 2012 Post-Mortem thoughts

Postby Potatoe1 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:16 am

the Dogsalmon wrote:Schroeder is a peanut who will get killed playing with the men in the NHL...


That actually isn't my main concern with him.

If he were killing it in the AHL I would be concerned about his size at this level, but he's not even a particularly productive offensive player at that level either.
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