Game 5 playoff elimination - Luo or Ginger?

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Who do you start in game 5?

Luo
2
4%
Ginger
43
96%
 
Total votes : 45

Re: Game 5 playoff elimination - Luo or Ginger?

Postby Island Nucklehead » Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:29 am

tantalum wrote:Gillis has been the most successful GM the canucks have ever had but sure turf him that makes sense.


He assembled a squad that won two President's trophies and was 60 minutes away from a Stanley Cup.

The Coach will ALWAYS be the first one to go, and rightfully so. Easier to replace a coach than everyone on the roster.

Some of Gillis' moves raise question marks, but who's don't? Ken Holland traded his first round pick for Quincey, and they're out in Round 1.
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Re: Game 5 playoff elimination - Luo or Ginger?

Postby RoyalDude » Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:31 am

tantalum wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:Even though it was Gillis who put the players in place for Coach AV. The buck stops with Gillis, the final decision maker. The puppet master. Coach's getting fired is the classic case shit running down hill. Scapegoats half the time. Some blame definitely has to fall onto the shoulders of Gillis, the CoHo trade was awful. Taking on huge contracts in Ballard and Booth with returns that don't add up. The Steve Bernier acquistion. Should have he kept Torres? Mitchell? His drafting record 'so far' has not been glowing, outside of CoHo. He's had 4 drafts now and nothing to show for.


Hey look you don't like GIllis who would have guessed?

Hodgson trade you have no idea how it is right now and to say otherwise is a complete joke. You want to talk about shit watch how Hodgson played as a Sabre the bulk of his games.

Booth....23 goal 50 or so point pace as a canuck in a season that had a knee injury in the middle of it. Really not hard to see how he could score 30 next season. But hey you simply want to see him fail so nothing I say will change that. About the only member of the second line to show up with a consistent effort so far in the playoffs as well from what the bit I've seen.

4 drafts and nothing to show...so now we are expecting 20 year old late draft picks to make an impact? Jensen has what 6 goals in 8 games in the AHL? Schroeder looks ready to make the jump. There is your favorite Connauton who somehow didn't win the NHL rookie of the year but is a promising prospect. Then you have Tanev (signed not drafted but still a prospect) and yes Kassian (hey another guy you want to see fail!). Does some work need to be done with the prospect system? Sure but that is why you have a star goaltender to trade as well as other assets and perhaps a signing or two (Schultz).

Gillis has been the most successful GM the canucks have ever had but sure turf him that makes sense.


The guy inherited a team that was well on its way to great things, here you go Mike, a great team, just sit there and look pretty. Now, we are finally going to get to see what Mike Gillis is really made of now that the team he inherited seemingly has reached the end of its road and needing a serious injection of fresh new blood to it's core. Making it truly Mikes team instead of past managements team.

Ya gotta love the dudes who keep using the 'on pace' card, regading the lame defense of Booth, that's grasping at straws. Booth is a limited, a one move player, who struggles at the puck possession game this team has been designed to play. Don't see the logic in taking on a contract in a player with low hockey intelligence and inability to know where he is going when he gets the puck. The On Pace excuse It's just as bad as saying Pahlsson replaced CoHo when it was Kassian that CoHo was traded for, that is and will always be the barometer. And where is it that you cats get the crystal ball regarding Kassian's guaranteed future of becoming a Ryan Clowe 2 or 3 years down the road. Regardless if he does or doesn't. CoHo should not have been traded for a project who was parked in the minors that may or may not turn out when we are trying to win the cup NOW. If CoHo does excel and Kassian ends up becoming another Krutov Kruton then that's the kind of fuck up that should get a GM fired. Trust me, if the trade does go sour for us, I will be campaigning for the oustal of Mike Gillis in the same way Tony Bones Gallagher campaigns to get coaches fired. :)
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Re: Game 5 playoff elimination - Luo or Ginger?

Postby RoyalDude » Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:34 am

Island Nucklehead wrote:
tantalum wrote:Gillis has been the most successful GM the canucks have ever had but sure turf him that makes sense.


He assembled a squad that won two President's trophies and was 60 minutes away from a Stanley Cup.

The Coach will ALWAYS be the first one to go, and rightfully so. Easier to replace a coach than everyone on the roster.

Some of Gillis' moves raise question marks, but who's don't? Ken Holland traded his first round pick for Quincey, and they're out in Round 1.


Yeah, but Holland has won how many cups?

No matter how you twist it, the core group of the Canucks that have led the way to the two overrated Presidents trophies are past management players. Dan Hamhius is the only 'key' core player representing Gillis. Lets not go there on the lame journeyman, secondary support, role players that make up the rest of the team, outside of Hansen, Raymond that Gillis has failed at in complimenting the core group that was built by past management.
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Re: Game 5 playoff elimination - Luo or Ginger?

Postby Fred » Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:56 am

What ever happens every one is under review. That means Gillis just like every one else and yes it is permissible to look at his failure as well as his success.

I don't think any one can think that Ballard, Booth, Bernier, Sturm,Raymond (at the money ha makes ) or signing Luongo for such a long contract to name a few, are great moves. Kassian is likely no better than 50-50 right now, but we can only hope for the best.

Resigning the twins and kesler at their salaries was good. Hamhuis we got likely a good deal. Lapierre and Higgin probably better than even Gillis expected. Tanev like a free 1st round pick. Lack was a lucky pick up that may turn up spades and I have to think some of his other picks (Corrado, Schroeder, Jensen, Cannata, and I'm thinking Polasak has over taken Sauve ) have time to make a roster spot. I'm hoping he can sign this FA kid Justin Schultz**.

So which has the biggest impact the good or the bad. There's a lot of Cap Space tied up. I'm thinking Gillis is up 60-40 as we speak

** http://canucksarmy.com/2012/3/15/who-th ... in-schultz
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Re: Game 5 playoff elimination - Luo or Ginger?

Postby Farhan Lalji » Sat Apr 21, 2012 11:01 am

RoyalDude wrote:
No matter how you twist it, the core group of the Canucks that have led the way to the two overrated Presidents trophies are past management players.


Sorry Royaldude,

You know that we often see eye to eye on a lot of issues, but you're a blithering idiot if you actually believe that our 2010/2011 Presidents' Trophy was a fluke........or if that team was overrated.

Having said that - I will give you this year. Canucks were pretty lucky to win the Presidents Trophy and their 111 points for this season was very flattering.
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Re: Game 5 playoff elimination - Luo or Ginger?

Postby mathonwy » Sat Apr 21, 2012 11:17 am

Farhan Lalji wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:
No matter how you twist it, the core group of the Canucks that have led the way to the two overrated Presidents trophies are past management players.


Sorry Royaldude,

You know that we often see eye to eye on a lot of issues, but you're a blithering idiot if you actually believe that our 2010/2011 Presidents' Trophy was a fluke........or if that team was overrated.

Having said that - I will give you this year. Canucks were pretty lucky to win the Presidents Trophy and their 111 points for this season was very flattering.


Sorry FL

We didn't luck into being the best team in the NHL this season.

We did it by having the best goalie tandem in the NHL.

Why we are down 3-1 is a combination of a lot of things. Everyone (not named Luo or Schneid) has culpability.

Until the series is officially over, I don't really see any reason to trade the entire team away or fire AV or GMMG.
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Re: Game 5 playoff elimination - Luo or Ginger?

Postby RoyalDude » Sat Apr 21, 2012 11:53 am

Farhan Lalji wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:
No matter how you twist it, the core group of the Canucks that have led the way to the two overrated Presidents trophies are past management players.


Sorry Royaldude,

You know that we often see eye to eye on a lot of issues, but you're a blithering idiot if you actually believe that our 2010/2011 Presidents' Trophy was a fluke........or if that team was overrated.

Having said that - I will give you this year. Canucks were pretty lucky to win the Presidents Trophy and their 111 points for this season was very flattering.


The 2010/2011 Presidents trophy was deserved I guess, but the Canucks have had the luxury of playing in one of the weakest divisions if not thee weakest division in the league over the last two years. When I mean overrated, there is no such thing as home ice advantage in the playoffs, top seeded teams get knocked out of the playoffs by lower seeded teams all the time. IMHO I think the Presidents trophy is not a true indication of how well said team performs in the playoffs. I guess that is what I mean by overrated.

The Nucks need to stop worrying about the Presidents and start making sure that they are a team built for the playoffs. Which is entirely a different league from the Regular Season, it's a tournament. I could care less about finishing first overall in the league.
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Re: Game 5 playoff elimination - Luo or Ginger?

Postby Fred » Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:12 pm

I understand the SC has prestige, but you need 16 wins. The presidents trophy is a 82 game grind and remember the road trips are often far worse than the SC, remember the 7 games in 9 nights in 7 cities road trip. The grind of the season IMO is under estimated. The body of work is a far better representation. SC you need few injuries and a hot goalie
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Re: Game 5 playoff elimination - Luo or Ginger?

Postby ESQ » Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:42 pm

RoyalDude wrote:
The guy inherited a team that was well on its way to great things, here you go Mike, a great team, just sit there and look pretty


Yes, that is clearly his role.
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Re: Game 5 playoff elimination - Luo or Ginger?

Postby dhabums » Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:51 pm

RoyalDude wrote:
Island Nucklehead wrote:
tantalum wrote:Gillis has been the most successful GM the canucks have ever had but sure turf him that makes sense.


He assembled a squad that won two President's trophies and was 60 minutes away from a Stanley Cup.

The Coach will ALWAYS be the first one to go, and rightfully so. Easier to replace a coach than everyone on the roster.

Some of Gillis' moves raise question marks, but who's don't? Ken Holland traded his first round pick for Quincey, and they're out in Round 1.


Yeah, but Holland has won how many cups?


Sure would have been nice to be gifted so many first ballot HHOFers on and off the ice and have no cap and no money constraints pre-2005. Holland is no doubt a great GM and a 1st class guy.

When you look at post lockout Holland, what has he done to distinguish himself with the on ice product?

It's just a question RD with practically no sarcasm. And is Gillis a better GM is we win game 7 last year? That question is full of sarcasm.
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Re: Game 5 playoff elimination - Luo or Ginger?

Postby clem » Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:59 pm

Fred wrote:I understand the SC has prestige, but you need 16 wins. The presidents trophy is a 82 game grind and remember the road trips are often far worse than the SC, remember the 7 games in 9 nights in 7 cities road trip. The grind of the season IMO is under estimated. The body of work is a far better representation. SC you need few injuries and a hot goalie

The play offs are a different measure of a team's quality (than the reg. season). Player effort, time frame, & officiating are all different. Play off hockey is quality higher than the regular season.

Player & fan desire to succeed at the highest level makes the cup more important than the President's trophy.

However, shorter time frame means one bad break can screw a team & create controversy.
Officiating inconsistency, cheap shots, injury... :(
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Re: Game 5 playoff elimination - Luo or Ginger?

Postby Farhan Lalji » Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:38 pm

RoyalDude wrote:
The 2010/2011 Presidents trophy was deserved I guess, but the Canucks have had the luxury of playing in one of the weakest divisions if not thee weakest division in the league over the last two years.


True, but isn't that often the case with most Presidents' trophy winning teams?

Detroit made the Central division their personal bitch for YEARS' and won Presidents' trophies.....during a time period where the Central division was the weakest in the league. Ditto for the Washington Capitals.

Outside of that - it's not like the Canucks have a 24-0 record within their division, and are 29-29 outside out it. Other teams throughout the league definitely know what our cock taste's like. Maybe not so much this year perhaps (i.e. we rarely had any blow out wins), but definitely in 2010/2011.
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Re: Game 5 playoff elimination - Luo or Ginger?

Postby okcanuck » Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:54 pm

Farhan Lalji wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:
The 2010/2011 Presidents trophy was deserved I guess, but the Canucks have had the luxury of playing in one of the weakest divisions if not thee weakest division in the league over the last two years.


True, but isn't that often the case with most Presidents' trophy winning teams?

Detroit made the Central division their personal bitch for YEARS' and won Presidents' trophies.....during a time period where the Central division was the weakest in the league. Ditto for the Washington Capitals.

Outside of that - it's not like the Canucks have a 24-0 record within their division, and are 29-29 outside out it. Other teams throughout the league definitely know what our cock taste's like. Maybe not so much this year perhaps (i.e. we rarely had any blow out wins), but definitely in 2010/2011.


He said blow
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Re: Game 5 playoff elimination - Luo or Ginger?

Postby NorCalNucks » Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:24 pm

Hockey Widow wrote: HW's quote


I totally agree with you that it's ideal to keep both but a very difficult task. I am hoping that's the management's top priority to massage the number and see what's available.

For the forwards I think having the two goalies will make Canucks an even more attractive place for FA to sign a little less to play for the cup. I personally think Mason Raymond still can be brought back on a 2nd or 3rd line basis for much cheaper (struggles a lot this year but I like to think he is still recovering), probably at the price of a 3rd liner or 4th liner plus he is familiar with the system. Though Manny is expensive for what he does but faceoff specialist during PK is crucial, especially when our offense is not clicking.

On D I actually also feel that our current D is solid, not great, but with two great goalies I think that's alright. I am one of the few that's against signing one stud D like Weber since it will cripple our ability to have a better overall team. Using Weber, which many wants, at $7-7.5 million, that's nearly enough for resigning Cory and keeping Ballard. I much prefer that than having Weber. Again, just a thought.

Cory and Lu shares the load.

It's very similar to what we have this year but I think the problem this year has been that a lot of players are still adjusting to each other due to being new, conditioning, recovering from injuries and AV favoritism and the likes, ie Booth, Ballard, Kesler, Raymond, Tanev, MAG, Kassaian. So hopefully we can allow everyone to gel and try one more time with the same core. I definitely don't think we need to blow everything up but a coaching change might be required since AV is becoming predictable to other teams. So assuming Cory signs for around 2 yrs at 3 each and cap doesn't go up (which I think it will) we have around $6 million to sign 2 top 9 forward, 1 3rd pairing d, and a few pluggers or a couple space for prospects to play. I think that's very doable.
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Re: Game 5 playoff elimination - Luo or Ginger?

Postby Fred » Sat Apr 21, 2012 4:09 pm

clem wrote:
Fred wrote:I understand the SC has prestige, but you need 16 wins. The presidents trophy is a 82 game grind and remember the road trips are often far worse than the SC, remember the 7 games in 9 nights in 7 cities road trip. The grind of the season IMO is under estimated. The body of work is a far better representation. SC you need few injuries and a hot goalie

The play offs are a different measure of a team's quality (than the reg. season). Player effort, time frame, & officiating are all different. Play off hockey is quality higher than the regular season.

Player & fan desire to succeed at the highest level makes the cup more important than the President's trophy.

However, shorter time frame means one bad break can screw a team & create controversy.
Officiating inconsistency, cheap shots, injury... :(



I always tend to view it with a jaundiced eye. The owners opportunity to make big money and the media a chance to sell more advertising and the fans are the capital income :D
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