GDT - R1G2 - Canucks vs Kings 7PM PST CBC

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Re: GDT - R1G2 - Canucks vs Kings 7PM PST CBC

Post by RoyalDude » Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:38 am

Mondi wrote: I agree. And the cause of that is an odd lack of confidence.

We just disagree about the solution. You say rebuild, I say something more akin to brining in guys who don't get rattled (i.e. Cup winners) so easily.
I'm not sure I agree with you that scoring for this team is a lack of confidence, Mondi. I can't remember the last time we blew a team out of the water on the scoreboard. Our scoring woes in big games goes all the way back to the Finals against the Bruins and it seems to have reared it's ugly head again over the last 3 months.

You say, we replaced Glass with Kassian, but unfortunately we gave up our 2nd Unit PP Centre and 3rd line scoring centre for a player who is replacing Glass? Not a good thing.

We miss Torres and his cannonball style to bump guys off pucks and keep D-men honest.

And we seriously, seriously, seriously miss Erhoff. Who is huge on the PP, our current nemesis. This is where I get irritated with Gillis, has nothing to do with Grabner, Howden, I just like to be a jackass about those two. Mind you, wouldn't mind Grabner's speed and scoring. He took on a contract in Ballard which hampered his inability to sign Erhoff. And I hate the crap about not wanting pay Erhoff more than what Gillis considered his top players, he doesn't seem to mind paying guys who produce way less than Burrows more money than what Burrows gets.

Regardless of the fact that Samuelsson and Hodgson didn't play in last years Finals, maybe had something to do with why we only scored 8 goals in 7 games in that final, but I'm sure they'd be helping us out a little bit more on the scoreboard than this group.

I think those are 4 key decisions that Gillis made that has hurt this club. I know all of you love Gillis, but he was handed a team on the verge, he has made decent moves in Hamhius, the Erhoff trade, the CoHo draft, Tanev signing. Lapierre and Higgins are not putting us over the edge, they are replace-able, seriously. Those players are a dime a dozen. I liked his aquisitions of Hamhius, Erhoff, CoHo and Tanev, but two of those guys are gone now and one we didn't replace cause Gillis put himself in a position to where he couldn't afford to sign him and was traded for a project that may or may not turn out, doesn't make sense to trade a player who gave us 16 goals in his rookie year for an AHL project. As for Drafting, Gillis in his 4 years, outside of CoHo, has nothing to show for in that department. Two Big Thumbs down in that department.

Bob Mackenzie has just said that the Canucks will not beat Jonathon Quick and the L.A. Kings cause we can't score. Thinks series will be over in 5. Lack of Confidence? I don't think so, this has been a problem for a while with this team and especially in big games when teams play us hard. Hey Shut Down Hockey is great when you can score, but what fucking good is it when 3/4's of your forwards only know how to check and not score?

But I still think we should blame Mason Raymond, trade him for a Jay McLement or a Chris Thorburn. :wink:
Last edited by RoyalDude on Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:42 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: GDT - R1G2 - Canucks vs Kings 7PM PST CBC

Post by Reefer2 » Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:38 am

BUT at least they can say they won.

Farhan Lalji

Re: GDT - R1G2 - Canucks vs Kings 7PM PST CBC

Post by Farhan Lalji » Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:50 am

Reefer2 wrote:BUT at least they can say they won.
Oh for sure. I definitely agree that winning the cup is the most important thing. I just don't think its the "end all and be all"......and that there are far more factors involved.

Ironically enough, Canuck fans are living proof that the Stanley Cup is not the "end all and be all." Most Nuck fans look back on the core from 82' and 94' with great pride and respect........as opposed to our current core unfortunately.........a core that has achieved more than both our 82' and 94' core's.

At some point, I think we have to acknowledge that our current core has achieved far more than either of those cores, and that the Sedin twins' legacy is greater than both Linden's, Smyl's, and maybe even Bure's ( greater than Bure's when you take leadership, all-around play, and other intangibles involved). McLean may have been brilliant in 94', and a couple seasons before that, but Luongo has done much more for this franchise.

Appreciate appreciate appreciate. I guess that is the main message I am trying to convey here. 8-)

On a more global/philosophical perspective, we are lucky that we can all appreciate the fact that we live in Canada and have a pretty solid team to cheer for and get behind. We could have been born and raised in some African country where drinking sulfuric water and eating dog shit for breakfast would have been the norm.

Let us never lose sight of this fact.

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Re: GDT - R1G2 - Canucks vs Kings 7PM PST CBC

Post by Lancer » Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:21 pm

Uncle dans leg wrote:What the hell has happened to our ability to make and accept passes?
I just get the sense that the Canucks are gassed mentally. They're playing like they're shell-shocked - can't sustain plays and make monumental brain-farts when they know this is not the time for them. It's like they're having flashbacks to the SCF of last year.

Throw in that it's evident that folks aren't even close to 100%, and the guys are playing the first round like it was the conference finals. Maybe they'll find a well of rejuvenation somewhere in LA, but it looks like they've hit a wall - and it's not named Quick. If they do get knocked out in this round (still hope it doesn't), maybe the blessing is a longer summer and more rehab for the guys.

Blow up the team? I think it's academic. Regardless of whether they win it all or lose in this round, next year's team will look significantly different. Outside of Luongo or Schneider, I don't see many core players moving. One possible exception: Edler. Unless the coaching staff are confident that they can get him to the next level and consistently bring his 'A' game to the playoffs, he could be moved as a pending RFA. It may nab a true 2nd line winger that fits with Kes. Booth tries hard and has a great attitude, but the results speak for themselves. Hope he turns it around, but I just don't see him fitting this season.
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Re: GDT - R1G2 - Canucks vs Kings 7PM PST CBC

Post by clem » Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:41 pm

The Kings are aggressive on the puck – typical of a Sutter team. How many times have we seen Canucks hustling to a position that provides the puck carrier with outlet options? Not enough.

Make the Kings pay for their aggressiveness.

Confidence comes from belief in the coaches scheme & belief in each other, especially the goalie. Put in Schneider & give the guys a guilt trip about how they let Luongo down. Less smurfs (Raymond, Ebbett) might help.

Now that our simplest/best hope (Daniel) for turning the series seems gone, you do what you can.

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Re: GDT - R1G2 - Canucks vs Kings 7PM PST CBC

Post by Farhan Lalji » Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:42 pm

clem wrote:
Confidence comes from belief in the coaches scheme & belief in each other, especially the goalie. Put in Schneider & give the guys a guilt trip about how they let Luongo down.
Luongo has probably been our best player in the series so far.

I do not like this idea one bit.

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Re: GDT - R1G2 - Canucks vs Kings 7PM PST CBC

Post by clem » Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:45 pm

It's not fair to Luongo, but the team takes precedence.

Farhan Lalji

Re: GDT - R1G2 - Canucks vs Kings 7PM PST CBC

Post by Farhan Lalji » Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:55 pm

clem wrote:It's not fair to Luongo, but the team takes precedence.
How does taking out one of your best players in the series make any sense?

The Canucks shouldn't need a goalie replacement to help "motivate themselves." They will and should already be pissed off and determined for a big game tomorrow.

Putting Schneider in just reaks of desperation and white flag waving. LA will smell blood.

Furthermore - lets say Schneider has a bad game or bad period. Then what? Not only have you pissed off Luongo, but you also leave Schneider out to dry.

Farhan's advice: Put Lou in for tomorrow. If the Canucks lose tomorrow, then you can put Schneider in for Game 4 (assuming that Lou is lackluster in a possible loss tomorrow).

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Re: GDT - R1G2 - Canucks vs Kings 7PM PST CBC

Post by RoyalDude » Sat Apr 14, 2012 1:18 pm

clem wrote:. Less smurfs (Raymond, Ebbett) might help.
Curious, who are you replacing the Smurfs with? These two are considered skill guys, are you replacing them with more stone hands tough guys that will massively intimidate the likes of Kopitar, Richards, Carter, Brown, Doughty into little school children? If anything, I can understand sitting Ebbet, but at least with Raymond, he is noticeable and trying to make things happen offensively, but hey, if ya think scoring isn't our problem right now, maybe you are right. Maybe Bitz for Raymond will help solve their offensive woes. Not.

If there is one player taking up space is Kassian. He's just completely lost out there.
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Re: GDT - R1G2 - Canucks vs Kings 7PM PST CBC

Post by RoyalDude » Sat Apr 14, 2012 1:40 pm

Mondi wrote:
This crap about needing a rebuild is hilarious. A rebuild? They had 111 points. Do you rebuild after that? I mean seriously, do you?
Who says rebuild. I'm talking about what the Flyers did after being ousted in the playoffs early after going to the Finals and losing in the Finals the previous year. What they did in the off-season was fucking brilliant GM-ing if you ask me. They saw that they weren't gonna go anywhere with the current core. After two kicks at the can. They created more depth up front, Simmonds, Voracek, Schenn and Couturier, handed the reigns over to the new guard - Giroux, got rid of the 'stale' old guard and freshened up in which seems to be working against the Crosby/Malkin Penguins. If the Canucks bow out in the first round, trading a goaltender ain't solving anything. It's still the same tired ol' group and they are now 1 year older, ie the Sedins 32, Burrows 31, Bieksa 31 and so on. FIring a coach solves nothing, it's just deflecting blame.

Gillis has himself in a serious pickle if this team falls completely flat on its face in which they are half way to that. He is gonna have to get some serious good youth back for one of his goalies like the Flyers did, and maybe consider moving Kesler. If the Flyers can trade Richards and Carter why is out of the world to trade Kesler???? You can create a great young 2nd line after the Sedin line by moving Kes and one of the goalies. Kesler simply is a lone wolf out there and does not know how to use his line mates affectively.
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Re: GDT - R1G2 - Canucks vs Kings 7PM PST CBC

Post by Hockey Widow » Sat Apr 14, 2012 1:42 pm

I liked the CoHo trade when it happened and for a number of reasons. But having watched Kassian and MAG I don't get it. Whoever our pro scouts are that "sold" MG on Kassian, that absolutely loved this guy, well who are they? I think Buffalo fleeces us big time as they knew Kassian's warts and they had Foligno waiting for an opportunity.

MAG is not an AV player. He got in his number of games and I doubt, barring injuries or an insane desire to blame Ballard for the loss, MAG will see a playoff game. He did't show me the promise MG said he had. Kassian, Gassian, is so lost out there. He has thrown a few hits and we played with bigger balls for a few games after he came on board but he really has not done anything to warrant his playing time.

MG blew the CoHo deal. I get why he got Pahlsson and support that move. I get that he decided Coho was now an asset that could be moved but he handled it the way Calgary handled Diana and the way the Bruins handled Thornton. He did not send the message out that Coho was available and see what came back. MG once said that he admired how Wilson in SJS handled moves, he targeted a player or players and then went out and made the deal happen. I get that. But I don'g get how he could not have let all teams know CoHo was for sale.

Bottom line I think we got fleeced on the CoHo deal. No one could have predicted that Dank would be injured and out for the first round but, and this is a big but, we all knew that injuries would occur and MG did nothing to improve the top 6 depth wise. He did not address the warts on D. He did make us tougher on the bottom 6.

Anyway, as someone else pointed out now is not the time to dissect. And yes we have plenty of time to get back in this. Win the next game and its 2-1. One game at a time and get the job done. And as far as Dank goes, he may not see the playoffs at all this year. And if he is still not 100% I am fine with that. You don't fuck with that one at all.
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Re: GDT - R1G2 - Canucks vs Kings 7PM PST CBC

Post by Arachnid » Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:51 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:I liked the CoHo trade when it happened and for a number of reasons. But having watched Kassian and MAG I don't get it. Whoever our pro scouts are that "sold" MG on Kassian, that absolutely loved this guy, well who are they? I think Buffalo fleeces us big time as they knew Kassian's warts and they had Foligno waiting for an opportunity.

MAG is not an AV player. He got in his number of games and I doubt, barring injuries or an insane desire to blame Ballard for the loss, MAG will see a playoff game. He did't show me the promise MG said he had. Kassian, Gassian, is so lost out there. He has thrown a few hits and we played with bigger balls for a few games after he came on board but he really has not done anything to warrant his playing time.

MG blew the CoHo deal. I get why he got Pahlsson and support that move. I get that he decided Coho was now an asset that could be moved but he handled it the way Calgary handled Diana and the way the Bruins handled Thornton. He did not send the message out that Coho was available and see what came back. MG once said that he admired how Wilson in SJS handled moves, he targeted a player or players and then went out and made the deal happen. I get that. But I don'g get how he could not have let all teams know CoHo was for sale.

Bottom line I think we got fleeced on the CoHo deal. No one could have predicted that Dank would be injured and out for the first round but, and this is a big but, we all knew that injuries would occur and MG did nothing to improve the top 6 depth wise. He did not address the warts on D. He did make us tougher on the bottom 6.

Anyway, as someone else pointed out now is not the time to dissect. And yes we have plenty of time to get back in this. Win the next game and its 2-1. One game at a time and get the job done. And as far as Dank goes, he may not see the playoffs at all this year. And if he is still not 100% I am fine with that. You don't fuck with that one at all.
Another wheel falls off the wagon...what's hilarious is the amount of people that are pointing to this trade that broke us...did Hodgson help the Sabres get into the playoffs? No. Did Hodgson play great in the stretch? No. People are quick to blame and abandon ship when it's only been 2 games...
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Re: GDT - R1G2 - Canucks vs Kings 7PM PST CBC

Post by Benjo » Sat Apr 14, 2012 3:01 pm

The fact that LA in recent history has been a sub .500 home team and the Canucks have been a strong road team this year is the only thing I'm focusing on right now. I think we have the depth up front to get some gritty hard work goals, it's just a matter of executing their game plan and stop letting LA dictate everything.

I agree Kassian isn't what he has been billed as thus far and outside his first few games has been unimpressive much like his short stint in Buffalo this season. I think with a little work he will be a good piece in the future though, he has the tools but his conditioning, endurance and stamina is holding him back from what he could be. i like the potential he brings to the table and I hope the Canucks fully develop him.

I've said it a few times this season but the Canucks breakout is utter shit. Every time our d man with the puck looks up he's trapped on an island with white shirts surrounding him while the wingers are standing still at the red line ready to tip the puck into the Kings zone and give them possession back. This was meant to be a FAST and POSSESSION based team, which is why the breakout is fundamentally broken. Instead of moving out as a 5 man unit they are standing around and tipping the puck to the other team, and because they are standing still they can't build enough speed to beat them to the dump in. The Kings have been doing a simple pass to their d partner and head manning the puck and are having much more success.

I hope the master plan on the PP all this time was simply rimming the puck behind the net repeatedly until Doughboy or Willie's big stick retrieves it for an easy out. They are cutting it off every time and it's entirely too predictable.

The moment this team starts outworking the Kings for longer stretches they will start getting the bounces but if they think they will just coast to the cup because they made it last year they are wildly delusional.

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Re: GDT - R1G2 - Canucks vs Kings 7PM PST CBC

Post by Puck » Sat Apr 14, 2012 3:03 pm

Farhan, good bit of perspective there... I'm with you on this.

Mondi, I don't believe this team lacks confidence. In fact, sometimes, I think they have too much in the sense that they always think they can come back and win...right until the final horn sounds and they notice they didn't. The 'no-confidence' argument is a media(fan?)-generated knee-jerk explanation to a loss. I think if you really dug into the issue, you'd find that teams with no confidence don't achieve a damn thing (Columbus?). This is general confidence as a team, though. I do believe that some of the guys are not playing loose at all. Confident on the whole, but still nervous about mistakes (even though they are inevitable). If Edler doesn't relax a bit, he's going to break one of his notoriously brittle sticks by grip-strength alone. I think they need a cameo from Pat Quinn... he should drop by the room and tell one of his pre-game jokes from the '94 run.

RE: Cody... probably the one thing that Gillis should have done was at least give him this year's playoffs. Guys like Kassian (at his current level of development) should be at least somewhat dime-a-dozen. With the PP struggling, I sure wish we had Cody to give it a go with the 2nd unit. This, of course, is a very 20/20 hindsight observation.

Erhoff: offensive help, yes, but he was pretty dreadful defensively in the Finals (admittedly with a bad shoulder).

If they play out the series with a good effort and continue as disciplined as they played in G2 and lose to ferocious fore-checking and stellar goaltending, how much blame can we cast? The Kings are relaxed and on a roll - exactly the kind of thing that wins Cups (see Larry Goodenough's quote). The Canucks may very well need a lucky break to get things rolling in our favour, not just hard work.

Farhan Lalji

Re: GDT - R1G2 - Canucks vs Kings 7PM PST CBC

Post by Farhan Lalji » Sat Apr 14, 2012 3:06 pm

Agree that it's only 2 games, but you can't ignore what the teams' GF percentage has been before and after that trade.

Hodgson, in a 3rd line capacity, produced some key goals for us at very key times. Even if it was a small difference, having that extra scoring punch on the 3rd line may have alleviated a lot of pressure off the top two lines (which in effect, helped them play better).

If the wheel ain't broke, why fix it?

The Canucks didn't lose to the Bruins last year because of lack of toughness.

The main reason why we lost was because we couldn't roll 3 effective scoring lines due to most of our team being injured.

The Canucks' biggest problem as a team, for the past 2 years, has been producing consistent offense in a post-season environment. If this problem is corrected, I believe that our goaltending and defense will follow (provided that our defense is reasonably healthy of course).

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