GDT - R1G2 - Canucks vs Kings 7PM PST CBC

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Re: GDT - R1G2 - Canucks vs Kings 7PM PST CBC

Postby RoyalDude » Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:12 am

Mondi wrote:The interesting thing is that outside of Erhoff (12 points), every key component from last season's playoff run is still on the team. Save perhaps Torres (7 points).

Samuelsson was injured before he went out. He only played 11 games and had 1 goal.
Hodgson did nothing in the playoffs, well he had one assist.

So you have Kassian instead of Tanner Glass, which is a saw off. And then you have Booth instead of Oreskovic?

So what gives?

Lack of confidence. And lack of Daniel Sedin.

This crap about needing a rebuild is hilarious. A rebuild? They had 111 points. Do you rebuild after that? I mean seriously, do you?

Their confidence is shot. This team has shown that in the face of adversity, over the past 4 season they have more often then not folded their tents. They are mentally soft and their confidence is shaken easily. When they are down they rarely rise up. But, when they are leading things are just peachy.

If the Nucks can get a lead on these guys, they will be fine. But without it they fold like cheap tents, as they usually do when the going gets tough. Whatever causes it, I'm not sure. But methinks it has to do with fan and media hysteria planting seeds out doubt whether consciously or subconsciously long before the season or playoffs even begin, combined with said history of folding. Like self-reinforcing vortex of criticism and doubt.

I'm not sure what will happen next, but this team doesn't require an overhaul. Gillis isn't a bad GM. AV isn't a bad coach. Luongo isn't a bad goalie (though goals 2 and 4 were back breakers). They just need to believe in themselves and try to overcome some adversity (much like they did vs Chicago in game 7). No need to start talking about dismounting the core.


All fine and dandy Mondi, but are you choosing to ignore the fact that we can't score anymore? The last 3 montsh of the regular season we only generated 16 goals on the PP, which was last in the entire league over that stretch leading to the playoffs. I thought it was the PP where we were suppose to beat teams. Blame it on Daniel. Didn't Daniel play the last 3 months of the regular season during that woeful run of only producing 16 goals on the PP? I'm sorry, but Lou and Schneider can only do so much, Shut Down Hockey will win you nothing if you can't score. You can believe all you like, but good luck trying to score on Jonathon Quick when you can't score anymore.
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Re: GDT - R1G2 - Canucks vs Kings 7PM PST CBC

Postby Farhan Lalji » Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:17 am

mathonwy wrote:
Farhan Lalji wrote:
Either way - it's a win win scenerio. We win? We move towards winning a cup and becoming legends in the city of Vancouver. We lose? We have a nice off-season, make the necessary adjustments, and get pussy. If I'm a player on the Canucks, this would be my exact line of thought.

:roll:

Fuck .. That .. Noise.

Win win? Maybe if you're retarded.


Or - if you have actually have some perspective.

In 2005/06, the Wings got ousted in the first round. Was it the end of the world? Absolutely not - they rebounded nicely and won the cup in dominating fashion a few years later.

The Bruins 3 years ago, finished with a 116 points in one of their regular seasons but then lost in the first round. A year later - they only finished with 91 points.......and then blew their 3-0 series lead against Philly. A year later - they won the cup.

As much shit as the San Jose Sharks get, they have consistently fielded a great team for the last 7-8 years or so.

Have the Penguins panicked or "blown things up" after being upset last year and the year before? (in early rounds).

My point is this: Fans need to relax a bit. Plenty of teams come from behind to win after trailing 2 games to 0. And if we don't? It's not a big deal. Just as teams like Detroit, Pitsburgh, Boston, and even San Jose came back strong the next year, the Canucks can do the same.

If the Hodgson deal was in fact, a mistake in retrospect (i.e. a major setback in 3rd line scoring), then the Canucks have one of Schneider or Lou to deal in the off-season to remedy that mistake......if you want to call it that. Period.

Most of us are aged somewhere between 20-55 on here. There is plenty of time left for us to see Vancouver win a cup.
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Re: GDT - R1G2 - Canucks vs Kings 7PM PST CBC

Postby Mondi » Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:30 am

RoyalDude wrote:
Mondi wrote:The interesting thing is that outside of Erhoff (12 points), every key component from last season's playoff run is still on the team. Save perhaps Torres (7 points).

Samuelsson was injured before he went out. He only played 11 games and had 1 goal.
Hodgson did nothing in the playoffs, well he had one assist.

So you have Kassian instead of Tanner Glass, which is a saw off. And then you have Booth instead of Oreskovic?

So what gives?

Lack of confidence. And lack of Daniel Sedin.

This crap about needing a rebuild is hilarious. A rebuild? They had 111 points. Do you rebuild after that? I mean seriously, do you?

Their confidence is shot. This team has shown that in the face of adversity, over the past 4 season they have more often then not folded their tents. They are mentally soft and their confidence is shaken easily. When they are down they rarely rise up. But, when they are leading things are just peachy.

If the Nucks can get a lead on these guys, they will be fine. But without it they fold like cheap tents, as they usually do when the going gets tough. Whatever causes it, I'm not sure. But methinks it has to do with fan and media hysteria planting seeds out doubt whether consciously or subconsciously long before the season or playoffs even begin, combined with said history of folding. Like self-reinforcing vortex of criticism and doubt.

I'm not sure what will happen next, but this team doesn't require an overhaul. Gillis isn't a bad GM. AV isn't a bad coach. Luongo isn't a bad goalie (though goals 2 and 4 were back breakers). They just need to believe in themselves and try to overcome some adversity (much like they did vs Chicago in game 7). No need to start talking about dismounting the core.


All fine and dandy Mondi, but are you choosing to ignore the fact that we can't score anymore? The last 3 montsh of the regular season we only generated 16 goals on the PP, which was last in the entire league over that stretch leading to the playoffs. I thought it was the PP where we were suppose to beat teams. Blame it on Daniel. Didn't Daniel play the last 3 months of the regular season during that woeful run of only producing 16 goals on the PP? I'm sorry, but Lou and Schneider can only do so much, Shut Down Hockey will win you nothing if you can't score. You can believe all you like, but good luck trying to score on Jonathon Quick when you can't score anymore.


I think we're in agreement about the issue RD. We can't score, I agree. And the cause of that is an odd lack of confidence.

We just disagree about the solution. You say rebuild, I say something more akin to brining in guys who don't get rattled (i.e. Cup winners) so easily.
Last edited by Mondi on Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: GDT - R1G2 - Canucks vs Kings 7PM PST CBC

Postby Reefer2 » Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:31 am

I will also add that I feel like I have been kicked in the balls and the bully is willing to do it again.

On a good note, I have only been to 2 games this year and since when did the Nucks start selling such low cut women's shirts. We may not win on ice but I don't think there is a team out there that have as many hot women in their early 20's wearing their teams jersey's as good as the Canuck faithful.

Is this what I have to deal with when my daughter gets into her teens and early 20's? :hmmm:
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Re: GDT - R1G2 - Canucks vs Kings 7PM PST CBC

Postby Farhan Lalji » Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:37 am

Reefer2 wrote:I will also add that I feel like I have been kicked in the balls and the bully is willing to do it again.


Why........are you actually playing the game?

It's just a game. Nothing more nothing less.

I don't say this to be pretentious or moronic, but I say this over the fact that I almost developed legit depression last year when the Canucks lost to the Bruins in game 7. Watching the team lose in the finals last year, followed by a ridiculous dangerous 6 week eating binge, allowed me to get a bit of perspective on the Canucks and life......I think? :|

Canucks just have to go out there and give it their best shot. Don't play "afraid to lose." The more one plays "not to lose", the more errors one ends up making. Go out there with the expectation of winning and give it your all. You win? Awesome. You move on.....attempting to become legends. You lose? You get an early summer break, you rest, recouperate, and make the necessary adjustments. Teams like Detroit, San Jose, Pitsburgh, etc., have fielded highly competitive teams for years, and there's no reason why we can't do the same.

As far as us fans go, most of us on here are somewhere between 25 and 55..............meaning, that we most likely have atleast another 30-60 years to watch this team win. Lets enjoy the ride regardless of what happens.
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Re: GDT - R1G2 - Canucks vs Kings 7PM PST CBC

Postby Reefer2 » Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:14 am

Because this team has been so close for the past 10 years with the WCE and now this team. Watching and having expecations of a team that will go far and win the cup finally after all the 80s/90s debacle (sp) it does leave me with well it is another year we have to wait.

I don't go on drinking binges, nor eating nor does anything else change. Come Monday morning regardless if it is 3 - 0 or 2 -1 I will go into work and produce and come home and probably go to the gym. Nothing changes for me but the feeling that this team has blown another season.
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Re: GDT - R1G2 - Canucks vs Kings 7PM PST CBC

Postby Uncle dans leg » Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:18 am

My take on the first 2 games:
What the hell has happened to our ability to make and accept passes? This seems to be our biggest hurdle at the moment and is directly responsible for our powerplay woes. We can't seem to settle down the puck and move it around without the damn thing bouncing off sticks, bouncing on the ice, bouncing off skates, bouncing bouncing bouncing. Were making a pretty ordinary team look like fucking all stars and this to me is encouraging.
Let's go out on the road, settle the fuck down and play some Canuck hockey. We win game 3 and were right back in there. Faith people...we haven't seen our team play anything like they can over the past 2 years.

I believe!
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Re: GDT - R1G2 - Canucks vs Kings 7PM PST CBC

Postby Farhan Lalji » Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:31 am

Reefer2 wrote:I don't go on drinking binges, nor eating nor does anything else change. Come Monday morning regardless if it is 3 - 0 or 2 -1 I will go into work and produce and come home and probably go to the gym. Nothing changes for me but the feeling that this team has blown another season.


That's a good mentality to have and it's something I've adopted myself. I guess for me - I was going way too extreme in the other direction over the past few years, and so I hope that no one else goes into that kind of territory.

Personally? I think there's more to a season than winning a cup. Obviously - winning the cup IS the most important thing, but there's so many other factors that constitute success. Last year - the Canucks WERE a success. They have a ton of things that they should be proud of as individuals, and should be able to look at those accomplishments with satisfaction once their careers end. Even this year - a Presidents' trophy is nothing to take lightly. We've won it 2 years in a row now. The Sedins', Kesler, Luongo, Schneider, Vigneault, etc., have all won individual awards, and Manny might be joining them as well this year.

For me anyways - I think these things are worth appreciating, and I would hope that more fans would appreciate these things as well.

Sure - not winning a cup is disappointing, but there are tons of other things to be proud of as well.

Let me ask you this Reefer (and to anyone else): The Flames won a Stanley Cup in 1989, but outside of their run in 2004, what else have they really done over the past 23 years? If the Stanley Cup is the only thing that matters, then would it be more desirable to have had THEIR history as opposed to ours?

Take a look at teams like Anaheim, Carolina, and Tampa Bay over the past 8 years. Would it have been better to have THEIR history as opposed to ours?

What about the New York Rangers since 1994? Same thing. From 1994 to 2011 (cup included), who's history would you rather have had? Vancouver's or NYR's? NYR missed SEVEN playoff season's in a row, and didn't win a single round for the longest time.

I guess the point I'm trying to make here, is that winning the cup is great.......and IS the most important thing.......but it's not the only thing that defines a successful franchise in my opinion.

Canuck fans and Vancouverites in general have a lot to be proud of. Hosting the Olympics, and winning the Grey Cup are two things that I also consider to be achievements (I know that they have nothing to do with the Canucks but I felt compelled to mention it).
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Re: GDT - R1G2 - Canucks vs Kings 7PM PST CBC

Postby Farhan Lalji » Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:37 am

Farhan Lalji wrote:
That's a good mentality to have and it's something I've adopted myself. I guess for me - I was going way too extreme in the other direction over the past few years, and so I hope that no one else goes into that kind of territory.

Personally? I think there's more to a season than winning a cup. Obviously - winning the cup IS the most important thing, but there's so many other factors that constitute success. Last year - the Canucks WERE a success. They have a ton of things that they should be proud of as individuals, and should be able to look at those accomplishments with satisfaction once their careers end. Even this year - a Presidents' trophy is nothing to take lightly. We've won it 2 years in a row now. The Sedins', Kesler, Luongo, Schneider, Vigneault, etc., have all won individual awards, and Manny might be joining them as well this year.

For me anyways - I think these things are worth appreciating, and I would hope that more fans would appreciate these things as well.

Sure - not winning a cup is disappointing, but there are tons of other things to be proud of as well.

Let me ask you this Reefer (and to anyone else): The Flames won a Stanley Cup in 1989, but outside of their run in 2004, what else have they really done over the past 23 years? If the Stanley Cup is the only thing that matters, then would it be more desirable to have had THEIR history as opposed to ours?

Take a look at teams like Anaheim, Carolina, and Tampa Bay over the past 8 years. Would it have been better to have THEIR history as opposed to ours?

What about the New York Rangers since 1994? Same thing. From 1994 to 2011 (cup included), who's history would you rather have had? Vancouver's or NYR's? NYR missed SEVEN playoff season's in a row, and didn't win a single round for the longest time.

I guess the point I'm trying to make here, is that winning the cup is great.......and IS the most important thing.......but it's not the only thing that defines a successful franchise in my opinion.

Canuck fans and Vancouverites in general have a lot to be proud of. Hosting the Olympics, and winning the Grey Cup are two things that I also consider to be achievements (I know that they have nothing to do with the Canucks but I felt compelled to mention it).


I also want to add the Toronto Blue Jays to my above analogy. The Jays became the absolute toast of Canada when we won back to back World Series' back in 92' and 93'. Since that time however - the Jays have done absolutely nothing.......and it's been almost 20 years since the fans and the city really cared about the Jays (they might be finally turning things around this year). The franchise has been an absolute after-thought ever since they won.

Again though - the point I'm trying to make, is that winning the championship/cup in one's respective sport isn't the end all and be all. There are so many other things that constitute success.

As much as we glorify the 1994 Canucks team, the truth of the matter is that that particular 'core' did not achieve as much success as our current core in terms of divisional titles, conference titles, individual achievements, and Presidents' trophies. At the very least, our curent core should be seen in a more positive light than the core from 1994.
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Re: GDT - R1G2 - Canucks vs Kings 7PM PST CBC

Postby RoyalDude » Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:38 am

Mondi wrote: I agree. And the cause of that is an odd lack of confidence.

We just disagree about the solution. You say rebuild, I say something more akin to brining in guys who don't get rattled (i.e. Cup winners) so easily.


I'm not sure I agree with you that scoring for this team is a lack of confidence, Mondi. I can't remember the last time we blew a team out of the water on the scoreboard. Our scoring woes in big games goes all the way back to the Finals against the Bruins and it seems to have reared it's ugly head again over the last 3 months.

You say, we replaced Glass with Kassian, but unfortunately we gave up our 2nd Unit PP Centre and 3rd line scoring centre for a player who is replacing Glass? Not a good thing.

We miss Torres and his cannonball style to bump guys off pucks and keep D-men honest.

And we seriously, seriously, seriously miss Erhoff. Who is huge on the PP, our current nemesis. This is where I get irritated with Gillis, has nothing to do with Grabner, Howden, I just like to be a jackass about those two. Mind you, wouldn't mind Grabner's speed and scoring. He took on a contract in Ballard which hampered his inability to sign Erhoff. And I hate the crap about not wanting pay Erhoff more than what Gillis considered his top players, he doesn't seem to mind paying guys who produce way less than Burrows more money than what Burrows gets.

Regardless of the fact that Samuelsson and Hodgson didn't play in last years Finals, maybe had something to do with why we only scored 8 goals in 7 games in that final, but I'm sure they'd be helping us out a little bit more on the scoreboard than this group.

I think those are 4 key decisions that Gillis made that has hurt this club. I know all of you love Gillis, but he was handed a team on the verge, he has made decent moves in Hamhius, the Erhoff trade, the CoHo draft, Tanev signing. Lapierre and Higgins are not putting us over the edge, they are replace-able, seriously. Those players are a dime a dozen. I liked his aquisitions of Hamhius, Erhoff, CoHo and Tanev, but two of those guys are gone now and one we didn't replace cause Gillis put himself in a position to where he couldn't afford to sign him and was traded for a project that may or may not turn out, doesn't make sense to trade a player who gave us 16 goals in his rookie year for an AHL project. As for Drafting, Gillis in his 4 years, outside of CoHo, has nothing to show for in that department. Two Big Thumbs down in that department.

Bob Mackenzie has just said that the Canucks will not beat Jonathon Quick and the L.A. Kings cause we can't score. Thinks series will be over in 5. Lack of Confidence? I don't think so, this has been a problem for a while with this team and especially in big games when teams play us hard. Hey Shut Down Hockey is great when you can score, but what fucking good is it when 3/4's of your forwards only know how to check and not score?

But I still think we should blame Mason Raymond, trade him for a Jay McLement or a Chris Thorburn. :wink:
Last edited by RoyalDude on Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:42 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: GDT - R1G2 - Canucks vs Kings 7PM PST CBC

Postby Reefer2 » Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:38 am

BUT at least they can say they won.
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Re: GDT - R1G2 - Canucks vs Kings 7PM PST CBC

Postby Farhan Lalji » Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:50 am

Reefer2 wrote:BUT at least they can say they won.


Oh for sure. I definitely agree that winning the cup is the most important thing. I just don't think its the "end all and be all"......and that there are far more factors involved.

Ironically enough, Canuck fans are living proof that the Stanley Cup is not the "end all and be all." Most Nuck fans look back on the core from 82' and 94' with great pride and respect........as opposed to our current core unfortunately.........a core that has achieved more than both our 82' and 94' core's.

At some point, I think we have to acknowledge that our current core has achieved far more than either of those cores, and that the Sedin twins' legacy is greater than both Linden's, Smyl's, and maybe even Bure's ( greater than Bure's when you take leadership, all-around play, and other intangibles involved). McLean may have been brilliant in 94', and a couple seasons before that, but Luongo has done much more for this franchise.

Appreciate appreciate appreciate. I guess that is the main message I am trying to convey here. 8-)

On a more global/philosophical perspective, we are lucky that we can all appreciate the fact that we live in Canada and have a pretty solid team to cheer for and get behind. We could have been born and raised in some African country where drinking sulfuric water and eating dog shit for breakfast would have been the norm.

Let us never lose sight of this fact.
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Re: GDT - R1G2 - Canucks vs Kings 7PM PST CBC

Postby Lancer » Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:21 pm

Uncle dans leg wrote:What the hell has happened to our ability to make and accept passes?


I just get the sense that the Canucks are gassed mentally. They're playing like they're shell-shocked - can't sustain plays and make monumental brain-farts when they know this is not the time for them. It's like they're having flashbacks to the SCF of last year.

Throw in that it's evident that folks aren't even close to 100%, and the guys are playing the first round like it was the conference finals. Maybe they'll find a well of rejuvenation somewhere in LA, but it looks like they've hit a wall - and it's not named Quick. If they do get knocked out in this round (still hope it doesn't), maybe the blessing is a longer summer and more rehab for the guys.

Blow up the team? I think it's academic. Regardless of whether they win it all or lose in this round, next year's team will look significantly different. Outside of Luongo or Schneider, I don't see many core players moving. One possible exception: Edler. Unless the coaching staff are confident that they can get him to the next level and consistently bring his 'A' game to the playoffs, he could be moved as a pending RFA. It may nab a true 2nd line winger that fits with Kes. Booth tries hard and has a great attitude, but the results speak for themselves. Hope he turns it around, but I just don't see him fitting this season.
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Re: GDT - R1G2 - Canucks vs Kings 7PM PST CBC

Postby clem » Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:41 pm

The Kings are aggressive on the puck – typical of a Sutter team. How many times have we seen Canucks hustling to a position that provides the puck carrier with outlet options? Not enough.

Make the Kings pay for their aggressiveness.

Confidence comes from belief in the coaches scheme & belief in each other, especially the goalie. Put in Schneider & give the guys a guilt trip about how they let Luongo down. Less smurfs (Raymond, Ebbett) might help.

Now that our simplest/best hope (Daniel) for turning the series seems gone, you do what you can.
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Re: GDT - R1G2 - Canucks vs Kings 7PM PST CBC

Postby Farhan Lalji » Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:42 pm

clem wrote:
Confidence comes from belief in the coaches scheme & belief in each other, especially the goalie. Put in Schneider & give the guys a guilt trip about how they let Luongo down.


Luongo has probably been our best player in the series so far.

I do not like this idea one bit.
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