GDT MARCH 31 - VAN vs. The CAL - 7PM CBC

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Re: GDT MARCH 31 - VAN vs. The CAL - 7PM CBC

Postby wafflecombine » Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:23 am

I don't think AV really cares that much about the President's Cup. From what I saw, it looks like he is tuning up some of his depth people and getting ready for the push into the playoffs.

Glad to see Ebbet have some success. Can't wait for the playoffs to start.
Last edited by wafflecombine on Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: GDT MARCH 31 - VAN vs. The CAL - 7PM CBC

Postby Jovocop » Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:27 am

Rayxor wrote:
Jovocop wrote:...but I am not sure AV would sit Raymond for more than a game, especially in the playoffs.

That might be a good plan to utilize our depth. Raymond is the kind of guy that will get worn down in long grinding series so to platoon him might mean you will be getting the most out him. He would be healthy, rested and motivated when he gets into a game. Kinda like basketball's 6th man, or maybe more like Tim Tebow. ;)


Motivation the key. Raymond has the speed and skill but does not utilize them. After sitting out a game, he played well for 2-3 games and back to earth ever since. Higgins helps whatever line he is on but Raymond seems to do the opposite. He might not hurt the team defensively but he definitely kills most of the plays in the offensive zone.
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Re: GDT MARCH 31 - VAN vs. The CAL - 7PM CBC

Postby mathonwy » Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:07 am

Hockey Widow wrote: I like how Ebbett has learned the art of deflection and I think planting him in front of the net or having Bitz on he forecheck would make Kesler and Booth more dangerous. So if Raymond can't get it together then he should sit.

As it would have it, Ebbett has always been a fantastic deflector.

Sound Tigers down Senators 6-2
March 23, 2007 - American Hockey League (AHL) Binghamton Senators
With the Sound Tigers leading 5-1, Ryan Vesce one-timed a shot from the high slot which Ebbett deflected past Dubielewicz's glove hand to make it a 5-2 contest. The marker was the only power-play tally of the night, as the teams combined for just 14 penalty minutes.

Wild Fall to Bruins 2-1 in Shootout
Once again, on Wednesday night, the Wild were stymied by the “hot hand” in net as the team failed to score more than two goals for the eleventh time in 23 games. Despite outshooting the Bruins by a margin of 29-16, the only goal that the Wild could muster was newcomer Andrew Ebbett’s tip-in goal just over halfway through the second period.


GDT: Ducks vs. Sharks - Game 1
Nikko - 04-16-2009, 03:23 PM
We need Ebbett to establish some sort of presence in front of our net. He is by far our best shot deflector and can seemingly get his stick on anything that comes near him. Nabokov is just too good without a screen/deflection, especially against our team. Hopefully Carlyle has taken some sort of note of this.

So Much for Predictions: Ducks Win First Games in Series

by: Cindy Ferguson
Ten minutes into the third period, rookie Andrew Ebbett was able to break the tie, scoring his first career playoff goal. Ebbett deflected the puck off of Nabokov’s playoff pad after Teemu Selanne sped behind the Sharks’ defense and fired the puck into the net, setting Ebbett’s play in motion.

Detroit at Minnesota (1/27/10)
A few seconds after that Zanon ripped one from the blue line and Ebbett deflected it into the net. The first period still had over two minutes left and the game was already three to two Wild.

--

Typically, when the Canucks score tip-in goals, its more luck than anything. Kesler went through a pretty hot streak of deflected goals last year but this year, I don't recall him scoring one. But Ebbett is the master of tip-in goals and AV really should utilize him as such.

Raymond is fantastic at puck possession but I would really like to see AV try out Ebbett's ability to deflect on the PP.
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Re: GDT MARCH 31 - VAN vs. The CAL - 7PM CBC

Postby Larry Goodenough » Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:15 am

Bouwmeester was on the ice for 11 scoring chances against , zero for. My calculator says that's a minus 11.

Perhaps the worst game of anyone in any Vancouver game this season.
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Re: GDT MARCH 31 - VAN vs. The CAL - 7PM CBC

Postby donlever » Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:57 am

Larry Goodenough wrote:Bouwmeester was on the ice for 11 scoring chances against , zero for. My calculator says that's a minus 11.

Perhaps the worst game of anyone in any Vancouver game this season.


While I would not dispute the inadequacies of Bouwmeester, especially in relation to his salary, those stats must be pretty subjective.

He almost beat Luongo himself from the right circle with a shot Roberto struggled to secure.
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Re: GDT MARCH 31 - VAN vs. The CAL - 7PM CBC

Postby Fred » Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:09 pm

donlever wrote:
Larry Goodenough wrote:Bouwmeester was on the ice for 11 scoring chances against , zero for. My calculator says that's a minus 11.

Perhaps the worst game of anyone in any Vancouver game this season.


While I would not dispute the inadequacies of Bouwmeester, especially in relation to his salary, those stats must be pretty subjective.

He almost beat Luongo himself from the right circle with a shot Roberto struggled to secure.


Is it my imagination...is Luongo having more problems with long shots ? Maybe time to get down to the optician :lol:
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Re: GDT MARCH 31 - VAN vs. The CAL - 7PM CBC

Postby Topper » Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:06 pm

I gotta say I'm loving this Ebbett/Raymond nonsense. And lets be clear, nonsense is exactly what it is.

As someone who recognized the potential in Raymond back when others were calling for him to be traded for a second round pick. I see Raymond has hit a plateau. Could be conditioning, could be physical or mental hangovers from his injury or a combination of all of the above. That said, he and Booth are still the two best puck handlers at speed on the team and probably the only two who can consistently carry the puck through the neutral zone and deep into the offensive zone.

Where Raymond falls down, is when he attempts a power move to the net, he simply isn't strong enough on his feet or on his stick, and his pass selection when he does pass off, he forces too many passes through traffic that end up as turnovers.

Mason still plays a valuable role on the team. He is a very good PK'er and his speed does back defenders off, but as I said, he has hit a plateau and plateauing in a contract year is never good. I still believe Mason fills an important role, is he replaceable though, damn right he is. If Paulson was brought in to replace wonderbread, who was Zach brought in to replace? THINK ABOUT IT.

Ebbett is a fine 3-4 line role player, can play wing or centre, small guy who give everything he can and knows anything less gets him a career in the East Coast League. The role he plays is exactly what a base level wonderbread should have been capable of but wasn't.
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Re: GDT MARCH 31 - VAN vs. The CAL - 7PM CBC

Postby Jovocop » Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:48 pm

Topper wrote:I gotta say I'm loving this Ebbett/Raymond nonsense. And lets be clear, nonsense is exactly what it is.

As someone who recognized the potential in Raymond back when others were calling for him to be traded for a second round pick. I see Raymond has hit a plateau. Could be conditioning, could be physical or mental hangovers from his injury or a combination of all of the above. That said, he and Booth are still the two best puck handlers at speed on the team and probably the only two who can consistently carry the puck through the neutral zone and deep into the offensive zone.

Where Raymond falls down, is when he attempts a power move to the net, he simply isn't strong enough on his feet or on his stick, and his pass selection when he does pass off, he forces too many passes through traffic that end up as turnovers.

Mason still plays a valuable role on the team. He is a very good PK'er and his speed does back defenders off, but as I said, he has hit a plateau and plateauing in a contract year is never good. I still believe Mason fills an important role, is he replaceable though, damn right he is. If Paulson was brought in to replace wonderbread, who was Zach brought in to replace? THINK ABOUT IT.

Ebbett is a fine 3-4 line role player, can play wing or centre, small guy who give everything he can and knows anything less gets him a career in the East Coast League. The role he plays is exactly what a base level wonderbread should have been capable of but wasn't.


Kesler might have something to say about that.
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Re: GDT MARCH 31 - VAN vs. The CAL - 7PM CBC

Postby Hockey Widow » Mon Apr 02, 2012 4:31 pm

I hear what you are saying Topper but the serious lack of production from the second line is cause for concern. I sense AV is showing frustration by putting Ebbett up on the second line last game and having him our in OT with Kesler. I really don't think removing Raymond from the line up makes us weaker based upon his production this year.
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Re: GDT MARCH 31 - VAN vs. The CAL - 7PM CBC

Postby Cornuck » Mon Apr 02, 2012 4:38 pm

Topper wrote:Where Raymond falls down, is when he attempts a power move to the net, he simply isn't strong enough on his feet or on his stick, and his pass selection when he does pass off, he forces too many passes through traffic that end up as turnovers.


...and his shooting leaves a lot to be desired.

I love his speed, but once he arrives at the destination, there's nothing happening. I think that his speed keeps the other team on their toes, and gives us a little more ice to play with, but he needs to spend the summer working on passing and shooting 9 hours a day.

If he's gone in the summer, I won't mind. If he stays on next year, I can live with it. But I have to think that there's someone out there to fill his spot.
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Re: GDT MARCH 31 - VAN vs. The CAL - 7PM CBC

Postby Meds » Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:01 pm

Topper wrote:Mason still plays a valuable role on the team. He is a very good PK'er and his speed does back defenders off, but as I said, he has hit a plateau and plateauing in a contract year is never good. I still believe Mason fills an important role, is he replaceable though, damn right he is. If Paulson was brought in to replace wonderbread, who was Zach brought in to replace? THINK ABOUT IT.


I disagree with you when you say his speed backs defenders off. I think it did at one time, but in the last season and a half it has not. Defender's know they can out muscle him, they know that he can't really stick handle, certainly not at full speed, and they know his only recourse is to blaze up the boards and then do his signature button hook just below the hash-marks. They simply take the shooting angle away and then pin him along the wall. If he does use his speed to drive to the outside and around them towards the net, they just push him over.

The only thing he is really useful for now is back-checking. It's a pity he is such a pussy about going to the net because with his speed the Sedin dump-in pass of the corner boards could land him a plethora of good one-on-one chances with the opposing goaltender.....but he'd have to be willing to take a bit of contact from the defenseman and even the odd hit.
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Re: GDT MARCH 31 - VAN vs. The CAL - 7PM CBC

Postby Listercat » Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:00 pm

Raymond has become the favourite whipping boy. The 2nd line is not producing,it must be Raymond's fault. Fact is Kesler has struggled all season to find his scoring touch. His wrister is slow getting away and not as accurate as last year. Given the fact that he had major hip surgury it is understandable that his game is not back to where it was last year. Booth is streaky and has lately tried to pass off instead of taking the puck to the net. I disagree with Topper about Booth's puck handling skills at least in comparison to Raymond. Booth can use his size and strength, like Kesler to maintain possession but he is not going to stickhandle to open ice.

Raymond was plagued most of last season with a wrist injury and then of course the broken back which like Kesler kept him from training in the off season. Hell he could not even walk in July-August. Does he need to work on his strength. Hell yes, especially upper body. If the kid was a quitter he could have said the hell with it after his back was broken, but according to AV he worked as hard as he was allowed in order to get back on the ice. Having been through back surgury twice myself the nerve damage alone can take as long as a year to abate and my back was not broken.His injury woes remind me somewhat of KB3 after his good first season and then the "haters" were demanding he should be traded. Strangely I haven't heard those calls since he has been healthy. Raymond wins his fair share of puck battles on the boards and has the ability to make something happen with little space and time. When the Canucks start to lose puck battles it is usually because they are getting out numbered by the opposition and are slow to react. The Game against the Flames was a good example of this.

If offensive production is the "standard" then Henrik, Daniel and Kesler should all be criticized because they are all far below last year's stats. The ones who have picked up that slack are Bieksa, Hammer, Edler,Higgins and Hansen who are all well above last year.

Throughout a long season you expect players will have periods where they are not as good as they can be. Factor in injuries and these "swings" in play can become more dramatic. We've seen it recently from the Sedins, Kesler, Booth, Burr and even Hansen.
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Re: GDT MARCH 31 - VAN vs. The CAL - 7PM CBC

Postby Cornuck » Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:38 pm

Listercat wrote:Raymond has become the favourite whipping boy.


I don't know about 'becoming' the whipping boy, but it's been frustration watching him the past few years. If his hands matched his speed - we would really have something. But when was the last time you got excited to hear the play-by-play say, "And Raymond is streaking down the wing!". :?
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Re: GDT MARCH 31 - VAN vs. The CAL - 7PM CBC

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:09 pm

Topper wrote:Where Raymond falls down, is when he attempts a power move to the net


I must have missed that game.

Raymond has as much power as a garden gnome.
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Re: GDT MARCH 31 - VAN vs. The CAL - 7PM CBC

Postby Farhan Lalji » Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:34 pm

Just a thought that was on my mind:

Let's say a team has 1-2 "crap" contracts that they wouldn't mind getting rid of. However - no one else wants them.......unless they are willing to accept one of their "crap" contracts.

With this in mind, would it ever be acceptable to trade 2 bad contracts for 1 bad contract, with the 1 bad contract being the best player in the deal?

For instance - if the Canucks packaged Raymond and Ballard for a 6-7 million dollar player that was an absolute bust.......but was still better than both Raymond and Ballard, would you ever consider making a "crap for crap" deal?

Jay Bouwmeister was one player that I had in mind (I know he's not being paid 6-7 million), but wondering if Van/Cgy made a 4 player "crap for crap" deal in the offseason, and we ended up with the best player, would it still be to our benefit.
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