Are the Sedins on the Decline?

[coco_canuck]

so that's how it works for you Coco-canuck? If someone posts a dissenting view, or is not in synch with your optomistic view, you write them off as 'clusterfucks?' WTH

No, I write off non-sensical arguments as cluster-fucks.

Your argument is the Twins can't take the Canucks deep, yet they got to game 7 of the Cup final last season.

You're suggesting that at this point in the season, the 7th year they're point-a-game or better players, the opposition has figured out how to play the Sedins and they can't be successful in the playoffs.

In Henrik's last 47 playoff games he has 46 points.

But you're right, the opposition has them figured out and they can't do anything in the playoffs....

[Farhan Lalji]

The Canucks ability to steam roll teams with 3 dangerous lines would be an amazing asset to have......an I'd be willing to invest in it even if it meant taking a slight risk with defensive depth (which could be compensated for as time went on anyways).

wow farhan. you need to pick a side of the fence and stay there.

Wasn't it just a couple weeks ago you were willing to trade Coho, Raymond and picks for a defensice BEAST??

you simply cant have it every way dude.

As you know, I've never been one to "pick a side of the fence and stay there.". It's just not my style or way of thinking, and I think it's a disadvantage in life to be "fixed" like that.......especially if things or situations change, or new facts and realities are presented.

My biggest concern for the Canucks right now is that they have almost zero offense from the bottom 6........which means that if the Kesler line and/or the Sedin line is shut down, we have either one line or zero lines producing offensively. That, combined with the reality that the twins won't be dominant 1st line superstars forever, is what makes me believe that the Canucks should try and get a young superstar center.

-We have Hamhuis and Bieksa
-Salo can be with us for a little while longer
-Ballard's contract sucks but he's a guy that can play 3rd/4th
-There is a great chance of both Tanev and Gragnani getting better (to the point where it would be like us having Edler and Erhoff anyways).
-freed up money from the inevitable departures of Raymond, Malhottra, and Pahlsson can be used for defensive depth.

Anyway - that is what I'd try and do.

[Aaronp18]

Your argument is the Twins can't take the Canucks deep, yet they got to game 7 of the Cup final last season.

You're suggesting that at this point in the season, the 7th year they're point-a-game or better players, the opposition has figured out how to play the Sedins and they can't be successful in the playoffs.

Why do we continually have to defend these guys, they are two of the top players in this league that any other team would kill to have.

Bashing the Sedin's at this point in their career is simply laughable.

Do people realize you do not get a plus for being on the ice for a PP goal? Maybe, just maybe this had something to do with their +/- last year in the playoffs??

Maybe, just maybe when injuries caught up to us and we just could not score on the PP in the finals it helped lead to the eventual demise of our run! If the Sedin's (and others) stay healthy and our PP continues at the rate it did for the first 3 rounds of the playoffs we are hoisting the cup.

Right now it's pretty clear this team is taking a calculated risk, they are wagering that with the experience of last years run and numerous veteran players this team can amp up their game come playoff time as they now know what it takes to win. They would much rather enter the post season with a completely healthy roster than play balls to the wall right now to fight for first place in the West.

Why would we beat ourselves up vs. bottom feeders right now and teams fighting tooth and nail to squeak into the playoffs?

I truly believe that the Canucks know exactly what they are doing and have complete faith that we will see their best hockey when April 11th rolls around. And the Sedin's will be just fine.

[Farhan Lalji]

I agree with everything Aaron is saying. However - I hope that the Canucks find a way to get motivated a few games before the post-season. The "on switch off switch" approach may prove to be difficult.

Your argument is the Twins can't take the Canucks deep, yet they got to game 7 of the Cup final last season.

You're suggesting that at this point in the season, the 7th year they're point-a-game or better players, the opposition has figured out how to play the Sedins and they can't be successful in the playoffs.

Why do we continually have to defend these guys, they are two of the top players in this league that any other team would kill to have.

Bashing the Sedin's at this point in their career is simply laughable.

Do people realize you do not get a plus for being on the ice for a PP goal? Maybe, just maybe this had something to do with their +/- last year in the playoffs??

Maybe, just maybe when injuries caught up to us and we just could not score on the PP in the finals it helped lead to the eventual demise of our run! If the Sedin's (and others) stay healthy and our PP continues at the rate it did for the first 3 rounds of the playoffs we are hoisting the cup.

Right now it's pretty clear this team is taking a calculated risk, they are wagering that with the experience of last years run and numerous veteran players this team can amp up their game come playoff time as they now know what it takes to win. They would much rather enter the post season with a completely healthy roster than play balls to the wall right now to fight for first place in the West.

Why would we beat ourselves up vs. bottom feeders right now and teams fighting tooth and nail to squeak into the playoffs?

I truly believe that the Canucks know exactly what they are doing and have complete faith that we will see their best hockey when April 11th rolls around. And the Sedin's will be just fine.

[Aaronp18]

I agree with everything Aaron is saying. However - I hope that the Canucks find a way to get motivated a few games before the post-season. The "on switch off switch" approach may prove to be difficult.

Fine, they can wax the Flames and Oilers in the last two games as those two "rivals" play their AHL rosters by that point in the season because they have secured early tee times!

[donlever]

I agree with everything Aaron is saying. However - I hope that the Canucks find a way to get motivated a few games before the post-season. The "on switch off switch" approach may prove to be difficult.

The on/off switch...a theory predicated by the media and fans.

You never turned the on off against inferior/superior competition?

Only gave 75% versus someone (in practice lets say) you knew you could beat but were saving yourself for later (the tournament).

[coco_canuck]

I truly believe that the Canucks know exactly what they are doing and have complete faith that we will see their best hockey when April 11th rolls around. And the Sedin's will be just fine.

Because we have good reason to believe this group is talented, mature and determined enough to be trusted.

Post-season success isn't guaranteed regardless of how good your team is, and no one is denying there a multitude of variables that come into play in the playoffs, but there is little reason to believe this team isn't good enough to get it done in the big dance.

I'll worry if they play like dogs in the playoffs. This team has all but wrapped up the 2nd seed in the West and the playoffs are less than a month away. Nothing they will do in the remaining 10 games, other than staying healthy, will make any difference in how they perform in the playoffs.

More than anything, what last year showed is that the level of intensity we see in the playoffs is at such a high-level, that it's not at all analogous to regular season play. There's no way to manufacture that type of intensity in the regular season, with exception of big games like we saw against Boston and Detroit, and even that is a notch below what we see in the playoffs.

[nuckster]

so that's how it works for you Coco-canuck? If someone posts a dissenting view, or is not in synch with your optomistic view, you write them off as 'clusterfucks?' WTH

No, I write off non-sensical arguments as cluster-fucks.

Your argument is the Twins can't take the Canucks deep, yet they got to game 7 of the Cup final last season.

You're suggesting that at this point in the season, the 7th year they're point-a-game or better players, the opposition has figured out how to play the Sedins and they can't be successful in the playoffs.

In Henrik's last 47 playoff games he has 46 points.

But you're right, the opposition has them figured out and they can't do anything in the playoffs....

I remember hearing that term when i was in the navy before Clint Eastwood made it famous (re: clusterfuck). Anyways, I respect how you separate people from things that are said. When all is said and done, i hope that I'm way off and am merely over-reacting to the 'peddle being off the metal' so-to-speak.

Is Aaron on with what he is saying re: the canucks knowing what they are doing? A piece that may support his view is how by game 7 last year, the canucks had NOTHING left - el zilcho - it was like watching a bad dream and being powerless over it. So maybe they are de-emphasizing the regular season (beyond making it into the playoffs) ? But jeesus man, they look rather putrid right now, to the point where ya got to wonder ??? Traditionally, I 've always heard it said that it was ON to be on a roll prior to entering the playoffs... i dunno.

Back to the Sedins: I don't think my eyes are deceiving me with what I'm seeing - they haven't really looked like 'first-line' material for awhile now. I find it frustrating watching them cause they're like 'limp dicks' being pushed around out there with little or no finish (that conjures up a weird ...never mind). Well i guess the piece that i can safelyu own is that i don't feel confident right now... nothing I've seen for quite awhile is instilling confidence.... but maybe Aaron is right and I'm being a frikin whining silly ninny?? Time will tell.

[Island Nucklehead]

More than anything, what last year showed is that the level of intensity we see in the playoffs is at such a high-level, that it's not at all analogous to regular season play. There's no way to manufacture that type of intensity in the regular season, with exception of big games like we saw against Boston and Detroit, and even that is a notch below what we see in the playoffs.

Excellent point. And for the most part this season, the Canucks have been able to "flip the switch" and get up for these big games.

Obviously the big win in Boston too. But since then there's been the ending of Detroit's home winning streak, a shutout of the league-leading Blues. The boys haven't had a lot to get up for recently (Mtl, Buf, Wpg, Columbus... yawn) so I think the next one in Chicago and the two vs. Colorado will be telling. Chicago is obvious and Colorado is playing great hockey lately and could be a first round matchup. Three of our final four games are against the Alberta clubs, hopefully their hate of the Canucks and jealousy of our upcoming playoffs will increase the intensity and get us going for the real season.

[porp]

One of the things that I really like about the Sedins are their work ethic and intelligence. Every year since they've joined the NHL, they've added or improved another dimension of their game. I'm sure they learned valuable lessons in last year's playoffs - hopefully one of them is to learn how to pace themselves. Regular season points and honours don't mean a terrible lot (compared to the SC) and they've both already gotten their regular season acknowledgements.

But the one facet that I really want to see the Sedins improve on is their martial physicality*. Daniel embarrassed himself badly last year so, maybe, hopefully, he has learned from that. Didn't some people on the other board suggest that the twins take up MMA over the summer so they can gain confidence/experience at being hit with fists and elbows?

They're reasonably tall, reasonably strong, have great balance and show that they have great core and leg strength. They *could* be not ineffective fighters. Maybe its a little bit of the Taylor Pyatt problem; we need them to get into a knife fight and come out being even less pretty. Although I think its more of a problem of inexperience which is why full contact martial arts training might be a solution.

*or maybe I'm reading it wrong and it's a lack of assholeishness. They get weak penalties called against them when they try to stick up for themselves a little. If they're going to get called anyway, why *not* stick that elbow up a little higher or punch the other guy in the back of the head when getting up after a scuffle in the corner?

[Farhan Lalji]

I agree with everything Aaron is saying. However - I hope that the Canucks find a way to get motivated a few games before the post-season. The "on switch off switch" approach may prove to be difficult.

The on/off switch...a theory predicated by the media and fans.

You never turned the on off against inferior/superior competition?

Only gave 75% versus someone (in practice lets say) you knew you could beat but were saving yourself for later (the tournament).

I see what you're saying and what you're saying is right, but there's a difference between taking a few games off here and there, and taking 6 weeks off with the occassional solid effort. Last year for instance - the Canucks were solid throughout.....and once they clinched the Presidents trophy, they took a few games off (I.e. Lackluster back to back losses against Edmonton).

This year however, they've been going through the motions for quite some time. I mean - I get the fact that they don't care about anything but the Stanley Cup this year, but it's just disappointing to see.....and I believe that it could burn them if they aren't careful. It's one thing to take a few games off here and there....as they did last year.......but my concern is that the Canucks have been on "mental vacation" for a little too long now......while other bottom seeded teams have been fighting tooth and nail all year.

Back in 2005/06 for instance, the Red Wings were upset by the Oilers in the first round.......and I think a part of it had to do with the fact that Detroit simply couldn't muster up the necessary intensity.

[Meds]

I agree with everything Aaron is saying. However - I hope that the Canucks find a way to get motivated a few games before the post-season. The "on switch off switch" approach may prove to be difficult.

The on/off switch...a theory predicated by the media and fans.

You never turned the on off against inferior/superior competition?

Only gave 75% versus someone (in practice lets say) you knew you could beat but were saving yourself for later (the tournament).

Back in 2005/06 for instance, the Red Wings were upset by the Oilers in the first round.......and I think a part of it had to do with the fact that Detroit simply couldn't muster up the necessary intensity.

The Oiler's got lucky. They were totally out-played by the Red Wing's, Roloson was just shit hot and Edmonton followed Calgary's example from the season before and rode a hot goalie to the big dance.

I'm not dismissing any concern that you or others may have about the Canucks right now though. If the playoffs started tomorrow they would be lucky to see 5 games before hitting the links.

[Tiger]

Aaronp18 wrote:

Do people realize you do not get a plus for being on the ice for a PP goal? Maybe, just maybe this had something to do with their +/- last year in the playoffs??

Of course its relevant.It shows how effective the twins were at 5 on 5 hockey . and if you think about it.. Just how effective were the twins on the power play ?

My point is not that the twins aren't very good offensively and probably have not declined in that department but that their defensive skills have declined...

I am not really worried about the twins in this years playoffs . My main concern is Kesler.. who was probably the most dominant forward in last years playoffs.. I am just hoping he can return to form after a bad injury and a mediocre regular season ..Contrary to some of the posters on this board I believe the Canucks got through some of the tougher teams ( Preds, Chicago ) and to the 7th game of the Stanley because of his play and the elevation of the game of some other Canucks..

[Potatoe1]

No, I write off non-sensical arguments as cluster-fucks.

Your argument is the Twins can't take the Canucks deep, yet they got to game 7 of the Cup final last season.

These playoff related arguments against the canucks are always the most amusing.

OMG cant win in the playoffs with XXXXX !!!

Er, wait didn't we just..... Ahh never mind...

[donlever]

Er, wait didn't we just..... Ahh never mind...

...unfortunately it's not never mind. The fact we didn't win and that they did not score (no one did of course) and were on the minus side of the ledger (how one couldn't be while being outscored the way we were) is now used in the anti-Sedin debate.