Canucks get Zack Kassian

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mathonwy
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Re: Canucks get Zack Kassian

Post by mathonwy »

Hockey Widow wrote: Whether that helps us win the cup time will tell but I doubt very much that standing still and keeping Hodgson would be any better, at least not with the coaching philosophy we have.
THIS is what I have an issue with.

If we're going to trade away a blue chipper rookie that was in Calder Trophy consideration at the deadline, then we think about the now and not the future based on the current state of your Vancouver Canucks.

Nobody can say definitively that having Kassian over Coho improves our chance at winning the shiny this year and as this is why I don't like the trade.

Anyways, this is all moot. I don't like the trade and I hope Kassian and Gragnani will change my mind. :)
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Re: Canucks get Zack Kassian

Post by tantalum »

I think Gillis said that he was in good shape but I don't think he implied he was in the shape this team expects.

It wasn't just his screw up on the goal. Wellwood was left completely uncovered as well. It wasn't just Kassian that got stapled to the bench. LaPierre did as well.

Shifts by period (first, second, third)

Kassian (5,3,1)
LaPierre (6,4,2)...Lapierre got a PK shift in the second
Malhotra (5,6,5)...PK and defensive shifts.


Fact of the matter is in a tight game where the canucks are playing catch up is going to put the 4th line on the bench more often than not. Especially when the three lines ahead of them are firing on most (not all) cylinders.

Anyways...I know it's been pointed out before but given that Hodgson had by far the worst possession stats of the forwards and can not be trusted in any sort of defensive situation means AV was simply not going to be using him in the playoffs. It would not have shocked me to see Hodgson in the pressbox with LaPierre and Malhotra centering the bottom 2 lines (before the Pahlsson acquisition). He wasn't going to be on the ice all that much for his "scoring" to matter. Assuming of course his scoring came back. It is probably more likely that with the game stepping up another notch in the playoffs that Hodgson would not be able to match that step up and fall further behind. Great prospect but I think they saw his defensive side of the game plateau pretty good since Christmas time and they weren't comfortable going forward with him in any sort of significant role.

Many of the same things can be said of Kassian of course. The difference in my book is that errors from the wing are usually less costly than errors from the center.

Of course no one can say Kassian over Hodgson is better for this year, however I'm pretty confident given the way the Western conference game has been played the last half of the season that PAHLSSON and KAssian instead of Hodgson makes the team better now.
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Re: Canucks get Zack Kassian

Post by Strangelove »

mathonwy wrote: If we're going to trade away a blue chipper rookie that was in Calder Trophy consideration at the deadline, then we think about the now and not the future based on the current state of your Vancouver Canucks.

Nobody can say definitively that having Kassian over Coho improves our chance at winning the shiny this year and as this is why I don't like the trade.
I hear ya. Coho for Beast woulda been nice. A Stanley Cup one day would be nice.
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Re: Canucks get Zack Kassian

Post by jkibler »

wafflecombine wrote:I was leaning polio vaccine and the fact our banks didn't actively try to destroy our economy.

BTW... I'm still waiting for those WMD's you promised us in Iraq. I know you boys kept reciepts....
so you are claiming that good old sadaam had no WMD? let me guess, the gas he used on his own people what the last can of gad he had right?
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Re: Canucks get Zack Kassian

Post by jkibler »

tantalum wrote:
jkibler wrote:
Arachnid wrote:Poor Cody was -1 and no points in B-town tonight in a loss :(

Not that' I'm keeping tabs on the trade :D

so how did Kassian do last night!!!!! lol
how much ice time? how many hits??

LOL
:lol:

Kassian 2 points in 5 games and far bigger contributor than 0 point Hodgson has been in 6 games. Both are young. Both have a lot of learning to do. But it's not even a question right now who has played better overall since the trade.
Again, you surround a player with better players and you dont think he will perform better?
there is no doubt the canucks are a far more talented team than the sabres right now,. do you think gretzky would have had his numbers on a lousy team???
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Re: Canucks get Zack Kassian

Post by jkibler »

tantalum wrote:
jkibler wrote: and it has NOTHING to do with the quality of the team??? you wanted Kassian for toughness, how many fights has he turned down now?? They questioned his heart in Rochester, and he is showing you all why
They didn't get Kassian for fighting. You get a goon for fighting. You get a 13th overall pick at a PPG in the AHL as rookie for skill and his style of play. Perhaps this was the issue in buffalo and Rochester...they wanted to develop a clearly skilled power forward player as a grinding goon. There is no way Kassian should be fighting a Bissonette unless Bissonette has run a player.

Cody wasn't scoring when he left...on the this same quality of team. Cody is also getting more quality icetime right now on the Sabres. And not scoring.

The only "they" I have heard questioning his heart are fans doing the typical run down the old guy and build up the new guy.

Both are young players. It isn't heart that leads to inconsistencies it's being young. You don't think Hodgson was somehow a completely consistent player in vancouver do you? He wasn't. Both teams got what they want in the deal. Early on only one of the players has truly contributed to the team. That may certainly change but Kassian's 3 strong games are more than acceptable at this point.
Dont you think that the sabres found something in this guy that turned them off??? why WOULD they let go a prospect of his caliber ?? I am not saying the sabres won the trade, as a matter of fact i hated the trade. i was looking forward to kassian being an important part of the team for years to come, but some on this board seem to think it was a slam dunk that the canucks came out better. looks like a pretty even trade to me, except the fact that the sabres gave away they desperately need in toughness....when he decides to play tough
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Re: Canucks get Zack Kassian

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jkibler wrote: Dont you think that the sabres found something in this guy that turned them off??? why WOULD they let go a prospect of his caliber ?? I am not saying the sabres won the trade, as a matter of fact i hated the trade. i was looking forward to kassian being an important part of the team for years to come, but some on this board seem to think it was a slam dunk that the canucks came out better. looks like a pretty even trade to me, except the fact that the sabres gave away they desperately need in toughness....when he decides to play tough

I can say the same thing about Hodgson. But of course the reason is pretty straightforward. The Sabres have no depth at center ice and no good prospects at center (not to mention center was a huge immediate need if they expect to complete the run to the playoffs).

The canucks are lacking young NHL ready depth on the wing but had very good center ice depth.

I don't see anyone saying it's a slam dunk win for the canucks in that they got the best player. That is something no one will know for several more years. I believe the deadline deals very much balance out the organization for this season and going into the future. In that sense it's a "win" for the canucks. But it's also a win for the Sabres as they achieve the same thing...or at least it should be but so far it hasn't been. If (when?) hodgson picks it up he'll start to contribute. Problem for the Sabres is they want him to contribute from the top 6 when he doesn't appear to be ready for that. The canucks want Kassian to contribute from the bottom 6. A role he can fulfill.

You also have to remember that a young kid can look terrible or off his game when hes really just a half step behind reading the play due to the speed and talent in the NHL. For big kids that like to hit that can mean not getting in quick enough to make the hit so instead of taking a penalty for hitting a guy late they turn away. It looks weak and lazy but it really isn't.
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Re: Canucks get Zack Kassian

Post by Chef Boi RD »

Zack Kassian last night - 6:52
Cody Hodgson last night - 14:38
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Re: Canucks get Zack Kassian

Post by Hockey Widow »

jkibler wrote:
Dont you think that the sabres found something in this guy that turned them off??? why WOULD they let go a prospect of his caliber ?? I am not saying the sabres won the trade, as a matter of fact i hated the trade. i was looking forward to kassian being an important part of the team for years to come, but some on this board seem to think it was a slam dunk that the canucks came out better. looks like a pretty even trade to me, except the fact that the sabres gave away they desperately need in toughness....when he decides to play tough

I don't hear or read where anyone really thinks the Canucks won this trade in any slam dunk, at all. We are well aware of what we gave up. What I read, and what I believe, is that Kassian fills a void on the team that Cody could not ever fill. I also believe he fills a role moving forward that Cody would never ever fill. In Hodgson you get a potential 2nd line centre who can, if he reaches his potential, get 50-60 assists a year and 15-20 goals. But you also get the warts of average defence and little or no muscle. Those aside I think everyone who has watched Cody feels he is a very good pick up for the Sabres and more along the lines of what you need now.

Cody was not going to replace Sedin or Kesler now or for the next 3-4 years. He is not 3rd line material. He is not 4th line material. He cannot adapt to play wing. So what we had is a player with tons of potential who is not versatile enough for what we need as a contender. Whether Kassian provides some of that only time will tell.

No one believes he will replace Cody's offensive potential. I think that is clear that most believe Cody is a better offensive player. Just like few believe that kassian this year will reach his potential. The hope is he will develop and become more part of the core down the road. My hope for this year is he provides what we have missed on the 4th line for several years. Not a goon or simply a fighter but muscle and energy. If he can do that this year on a consistent basis then he helps us immensely in the playoffs.

As many have said, when you have a team built like the canucks there was little chance that Cody would see the ice time in the playoffs to be a difference maker for us. But to read into that that people think we won a trade slam dunk is being silly. In fact I haven't seen one comment to that effect. Reactions are polarized and mixed. This was a hockey trade that addressed needs both teams had and in Cody you get a great young kid with a ton of potential. But so do we.
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Re: Canucks get Zack Kassian

Post by tantalum »

RoyalDude wrote:Zack Kassian last night - 6:52
Cody Hodgson last night - 14:38
Pahlsson 13 or so minutes +1, game winning goal
Hodgson 14 or so minutes -1.
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Re: Canucks get Zack Kassian

Post by Hockey Widow »

tantalum wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:Zack Kassian last night - 6:52
Cody Hodgson last night - 14:38
Pahlsson 13 or so minutes +1, game winning goal
Hodgson 14 or so minutes -1.

You got it Tant. To see if we came out ahead deadline day lets compare Hodgson to Pahlsson. Those are after all the positional changes.

I would suspect that RD likes this trade but likes it more to be a devil's advocate. I mean after all Grabner was the second coming until just recently when he is now garbage to RD. Go figure.
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Re: Canucks get Zack Kassian

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tantalum wrote:
jkibler wrote:
The canucks are lacking young NHL ready depth on the wing but had very good center ice depth.
So after Ryan and Hank, who are these so called 'skilled' natural playmaking/set up Centremen we have in our system who can centre in the top 3 lines. The entire system, ie Vancouver, the Wolves, in junior/college/europe...anywhere. Just who are these centreman that we have a plethora of in the system?

I just don't buy the logic that we had to much skill at centre. Pat Lafontaine played like 3 or 4 years at 3rd line centre with the Islanders behind Trottier, Goring and Brent Sutter. What was the rush with Cody, this was his rookie year wasn't it? Joe Sakic played a couple years behind Peter Stastny and Dale Hunter. The Centre position, outside of goaltending is the most important position in hockey and we squandered it for a 4th line winger, no offense to Kassian, I like him, but seriously, skilled young centreman are hard to get.
Last edited by Chef Boi RD on Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Canucks get Zack Kassian

Post by Chef Boi RD »

tantalum wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:Zack Kassian last night - 6:52
Cody Hodgson last night - 14:38
Pahlsson 13 or so minutes +1, game winning goal
Hodgson 14 or so minutes -1.
I thought we traded Hodgson for Kassian? Not the 34 year old shut down specialist Pahlsson with limited offensive skill.
“Tyler Myers is my guy... I was taking to Scotty Bowman last night and he was bringing up his name, and saying he’s a big guy and big guy need big minutes to play, he is playing great for ya… and I agree with him… He’s been exceptional” - Bruce Boudreau
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Re: Canucks get Zack Kassian

Post by tantalum »

RoyalDude wrote: So after Ryan and Hank, who are these so called 'skilled' natural playmaking/set up Centremen we have in our system who can centre in the top 3 lines in Vancouver, the Wolves, in junior/college/europe...anywhere. Just who are these centreman that we have a plethora of in the system?

I just don't buy the logic that we had to much skill at centre. Pat Lafontaine played like 3 or 4 years at 3rd line centre with the Islanders behind Trottier, Goring and Brent Sutter. What was the rush with Cody, this was his rookie year wasn't it? Joe Sakic played a couple years behind Peter Stastny and Dale Hunter. The Centre position, outside of goaltending is the most important position in hockey and we squandered it for a 4th line winger, no offense to Kassian, I like him, but seriously, skilled young centreman are hard to get.
I in fact do understand where you are coming from. And yes they will need to find some replacements no question. But the wing and more specifically a power forward at wing was a more pressing need for the organization right now. At least IMO (also a top 4 D-man....). Gillis likely feels he can deal with the center ice situation a little further down the road.

I have a feeling you'll have to ask Cody what the rush was.....


To you last post. Yes Kassian was acquired in the Hodgson trade, however, he is not the one replacing Hodgson in the lineup. But of course you knew that.
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Re: Canucks get Zack Kassian

Post by Chef Boi RD »

Hockey Widow wrote: No one believes he will replace Cody's offensive potential. I think that is clear that most believe Cody is a better offensive player. Just like few believe that kassian this year will reach his potential. The hope is he will develop and become more part of the core down the road. My hope for this year is he provides what we have missed on the 4th line for several years. Not a goon or simply a fighter but muscle and energy. If he can do that this year on a consistent basis then he helps us immensely in the playoffs.
Hope, hope and more hope. We traded a guaranteed offensive producer for Hope.

And let us not forget, Cody produced some pretty good numbers as a 3rd line centre behind Hank and Kesler with lesser skilled wingers and limited ice time tightly monitored and held under microscope by Coach AV and second unit PP.
“Tyler Myers is my guy... I was taking to Scotty Bowman last night and he was bringing up his name, and saying he’s a big guy and big guy need big minutes to play, he is playing great for ya… and I agree with him… He’s been exceptional” - Bruce Boudreau
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