Canucks get Zack Kassian

[ESQ]

Hey guys. Noticed you were talking about the GD article, which I wrote.

Nice work. I thought this quote was very interesting:

Biggest difference I've noticed between the two prospects: Foligno has a penchant for working hard. Kassian hasn't shown that yet, and goes through spells of coasting/gliding on the ice

I don't think anyone who has watched Kassian the past 3 games would expect work ethic to be a common complaint about him, but obviously this is a small sample size. If lack of work ethic is something in his past, then its worth keeping an eye on, but if he's playing like he has been in a Canucks uniform, I have no complaints.

I thought the quote from the Americans' coach was most telling about why I think the Sabres organization wasn't able to get the most out of Kassian:

“He has to play a physical game and if he has to fight he has to fight,” said Rolston. “I think it’s part of the game and part of what he’s here to do is be a physical player. If it happens, we are not in a situation where we’re telling him not to fight, that’s for sure.”

Kassian does not have to fight. I would be shocked if any Canucks/Wolves coach ever looked at a guy like Kassian, a high-first round pick with offensive upside who is close to leading the team in points/game in his first pro year, and saying he needs to fight.

If that is the situation his coming from, I'm confident AV can get more out of him than you saw in Buffalo.

[Arachnid]

Hey guys. Noticed you were talking about the GD article, which I wrote.

Yes, the article was mostly about why Marcus Foligno's growth caused the Sabres to get rid of Kassian because they could eventually be the same type of player.

Biggest difference I've noticed between the two prospects: Foligno has a penchant for working hard. Kassian hasn't shown that yet, and goes through spells of coasting/gliding on the ice.

Kassian is a good player. You'll like him once he finds his game, but in Buffalo, he didn't seem to have the want to. Foligno does, which probably prompted the Sabres to trade him.

I'm not sure what was up with Hodgson that the Canucks wanted to get rid of him. They could have gotten a much higher return than Zack Kassian, but that's just my thinking.

CoHo has history in Van too, I hope you do some deep research before you write an article about it. He was/is?! a bit of a head case. He might think he is godsgift (no question he is gifted) but when things don't go his way or an organization doesn't do it his way he tends to lay blame on them. Call it immaturity or a bad camp (agent/father) I wish him well and perhaps for both players they just needed afresh start in different scene....

[Larry Goodenough]

Hey guys. Noticed you were talking about the GD article, which I wrote.

Nice work. I thought this quote was very interesting:

Biggest difference I've noticed between the two prospects: Foligno has a penchant for working hard. Kassian hasn't shown that yet, and goes through spells of coasting/gliding on the ice

I don't think anyone who has watched Kassian the past 3 games would expect work ethic to be a common complaint about him, but obviously this is a small sample size. If lack of work ethic is something in his past, then its worth keeping an eye on, but if he's playing like he has been in a Canucks uniform, I have no complaints.

I thought the quote from the Americans' coach was most telling about why I think the Sabres organization wasn't able to get the most out of Kassian:

“He has to play a physical game and if he has to fight he has to fight,” said Rolston. “I think it’s part of the game and part of what he’s here to do is be a physical player. If it happens, we are not in a situation where we’re telling him not to fight, that’s for sure.”

Kassian does not have to fight. I would be shocked if any Canucks/Wolves coach ever looked at a guy like Kassian, a high-first round pick with offensive upside who is close to leading the team in points/game in his first pro year, and saying he needs to fight.

If that is the situation his coming from, I'm confident AV can get more out of him than you saw in Buffalo.

Agreed. Vancouver has a recent history of managing their roster in a fashion to get the most out of their players through development, deployment and leadership.

Buffalo, not so much.

It's hard to judge Hodgson vs Kassian right off the hop because they come from such different organizations. How much of their current year's successes/failures was a result of the coaches and team around them? Again, Gillis' track record vs Regier speaks for itself.

[vanekfanatic26]

Hey guys. Noticed you were talking about the GD article, which I wrote.

Nice work. I thought this quote was very interesting:

Biggest difference I've noticed between the two prospects: Foligno has a penchant for working hard. Kassian hasn't shown that yet, and goes through spells of coasting/gliding on the ice

I don't think anyone who has watched Kassian the past 3 games would expect work ethic to be a common complaint about him, but obviously this is a small sample size. If lack of work ethic is something in his past, then its worth keeping an eye on, but if he's playing like he has been in a Canucks uniform, I have no complaints.

I thought the quote from the Americans' coach was most telling about why I think the Sabres organization wasn't able to get the most out of Kassian:

“He has to play a physical game and if he has to fight he has to fight,” said Rolston. “I think it’s part of the game and part of what he’s here to do is be a physical player. If it happens, we are not in a situation where we’re telling him not to fight, that’s for sure.”

Kassian does not have to fight. I would be shocked if any Canucks/Wolves coach ever looked at a guy like Kassian, a high-first round pick with offensive upside who is close to leading the team in points/game in his first pro year, and saying he needs to fight.

If that is the situation his coming from, I'm confident AV can get more out of him than you saw in Buffalo.

Agreed. Vancouver has a recent history of managing their roster in a fashion to get the most out of their players through development, deployment and leadership.

Buffalo, not so much.

It's hard to judge Hodgson vs Kassian right off the hop because they come from such different organizations. How much of their current year's successes/failures was a result of the coaches and team around them? Again, Gillis' track record vs Regier speaks for itself.

That's a fair point, but to say that Regier hasn't done a good job with what he was given under previous regimes is a stretch. He's been forced to trade Dominik Hasek after a Stanley Cup Final. He's drafted good players in later rounds, such as Jason Pominville, Paul Gaustad, Derek Roy, and Ryan Miller. He's always been handicapped by an in-house cap.

Granted, he did make the mistake of signing Leino long term, but Ehrhoff has worked out. Let's not forget he swindled Danny Briere for Chris Gratton. He got Chris Drury in the prime of his career. Brian Campbell was developed in Buffalo.

I'm not sure if Gillis was handcuffed in any way in his time here, but he did inherit the Sedin twins. I don't know enough about anything else to make a judgment on him, but feel free to enlighten me.

[coco_canuck]

I'm not sure what was up with Hodgson that the Canucks wanted to get rid of him. They could have gotten a much higher return than Zack Kassian, but that's just my thinking.

Well, only if you evaluate this deal in a vacuum, but there are a number of variables in play here.

Typically, fans tend to either overvalue or undervalue their own players, particularly prospects and young players. With Kassian, most of the criticism is centred around his transgressions in junior, a few comments from the AHL coach and a sample size of less than 30 NHL games.

If you were to ask Canucks fans what Hodgson's value was prior to this season, you would probably hear that he's a failed prospect and we'd be lucky to get a late 1st round pick or mid-level player for him.

Simply based on stats, you'd look at Hodgson's production and likely surmise the Canucks got less value since they've traded a player who was establishing himself as a point producer in a limited role for a raw rookie who is still looking to gain his footing and a defenceman who has largely struggled this season.

But if you look at how Cody produced his points, how he was protected and his physical limitations, you would probably see a more clear picture.

That's not to say Hodgson is incapable of becoming a top-flight centre, but based on his physical tools and what we've seen of his defensive play/awareness, Hodgson has a long way to go before he's an everyday 2nd line C, let alone a top-tier pivot.

On one hand, Cody is a more established player than Kassian, but if you look at where each player is in his development relative to their ceiling, or perceived ceiling, both have a great deal of developing to do, and each fits the needs of their new team better than their old.

Also, if you look at the potential development of each player in their new teams, you can easily see how each is better suited to reach their potential in the situation they currently find themselves in.

[Fred]

Kassian being as young as he is will have a extremely strong selfish attitude if he can fight off the Vancouver locker room traits, ie self motivation and responsibility...I just can't see him....over coming the rest of the rosters. Hodgson was fortunate to start his career in such a locker room. Kassian will be dragged along with the rosters attitude IMO.

[donlever]

...not quite sure where you are going Fred as the post is a bit confusing but I would say that the self motivation in the Canucks locker room is left to vets (or better said ceded to those who have demonstrated an ability to toe the line) and the young players are handled in a much different fashion both by team power brokers and fellow players.

[nyintensity]

...not quite sure where you are going Fred as the post is a bit confusing but I would say that the self motivation in the Canucks locker room is left to vets (or better said ceded to those who have demonstrated an ability to toe the line) and the young players are handled in a much different fashion both by team power brokers and fellow players.

I think this is the root of a lot of Buffalo's problems. You don't hear much about Buffalo's veteran players organizing off-season workouts and mentoring the younger players. I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that Buffalo's current veteran players didn't have veteran players do the same for them (our core is home-grown).

[tantalum]

I'm still not convinced you can say with any sort of certainty that Hodgson is far and away a better prospect. They both had successful junior careers and both came out of junior with question marks....one in terms of health and the other supposedly in terms of motivation (though his last junior organization doesn't buy that). They possess completely different skill sets as well which makes things more difficult.

I suppose Sabre fans think Hodgson is going to be a top tier center. I think most around the hockey world believe his top potential is likely closer to a Derek Roy, who is a great second line center but not really a first line center (IMHO). I'm a big Hodgson supporter but he did have warts to his game that I think most everyone acknowledged. The third line slot was a good place for him to learn his craft as he was in a protected position in most nights. While I think he's had a reasonable start with the Sabres creating a few chances the deficiencies in his game have also been more evident than they were with the canucks.

On Kassian, I've heard this quote from his AHL coach a lot (I've also seen very complimentary things). TO me I agree with the above poster....that is simply bad development if they expected him just to fight. THere is no reason for Kassian to accept challenges just to fight. If there was something questionable on a teammate I would expect him to step in and make his presence known. It's like the difference between BIssonnette challenging him and the scrum in the BLues game. He should not be taking the Biznasty challenge but should be doing what he did in the Blues scrum...inserting himself in between and giving people the crazy eye.


Also want to remind people that they also got Gragnani back. Certainly he needs development as well but if Kassian can end up as a top 6 physical power forward and Gragnani can be a full time NHL player I find it hard to see how the canucks even come close to losing the deal.


btw at practice Kassian was skating with Booth and Kesler. Raymond was trading off with Weise on the 4th line for line drills (but practicing the second unit PP).

[Potatoe1]

Biggest difference I've noticed between the two prospects: Foligno has a penchant for working hard. Kassian hasn't shown that yet, and goes through spells of coasting/gliding on the ice.

I would say the biggest difference would likely be in over all talent.

Kassian is / was a first rate prospect with a ton of pedigree and is known league wide. He has been a top player at every level going back 5 or 6 years.

Foligno is a "B" level prospect who's had a good couple of months but is likely a career 4th liner.

[tantalum]

I agree Pot.

Let's be perfectly clear...the Sabres didn't trade Kassian because they have Foligno. They traded Kassian, a top prospect, because they desperately need a top prospect at center. YOu can build without a Power forward but you can not build without centers.

[Strangelove]

Regier's always been handicapped by an in-house cap.

Granted, he did make the mistake of signing Leino long term, but Ehrhoff has worked out.

Hasn't this "in-house cap" the previous 4 years been actually not all that far off the max? (my post a coupla pages back)

Didn't the supposedly cash-strapped Sabres hand Vanek a ridiculous $18mil over the 07-08 & 08-09 seasons?

[Fred]

...not quite sure where you are going Fred as the post is a bit confusing but I would say that the self motivation in the Canucks locker room is left to vets (or better said ceded to those who have demonstrated an ability to toe the line) and the young players are handled in a much different fashion both by team power brokers and fellow players.

The point I was making is if Kassian wants to go his own way it will be a tough task, the more probable course he will take in this dressing room is to fall in line and become a hard working team player. That's an unmeasurable but important factor in Vcr. His chance of success is greater here than many other teams IMO. Sorry about the confusion, my sons getting me to down load Dropbox and look at photo's video and my sister in law is send caustic comments on e-mail..Grrrrr multi tasking is not my strong suit

[wienerdog]

Don Lever makes a grand entrance, EPC is back , Diehard who has been around forever is back. Rummy and Ohdee poke their ugly mugs back in along with Tooper . What's next SR sez and Arthur riding in together on a clydesdale drinking bud ?

Where is Clambake ?

edit i see ktulu is here as well .

On this note, what happened to Spock?

[donlever]

The point I was making is if Kassian wants to go his own way it will be a tough task, the more probable course he will take in this dressing room is to fall in line and become a hard working team player. That's an unmeasurable but important factor in Vcr.

Gotcha.

I agree.

Thanks for straightening that out.