Canucks get Zack Kassian

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Re: Canucks get Zack Kassian

Postby nyintensity » Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:14 pm

jkibler wrote:As a lifelong sabre fan here in wextern NY, i was shocked to see Kassian go.
I felt that we had 3 "untouchables" and that he was 1 of them. Give him time to develope and you will have a helluva player. The sabres just got a lot smaller and much more cowardly. I know nothing of Cody, but i am sure once he hits Buffalo he will turn into an average at best player as everyone does when they join the sabres. I am convinced tehy wont win a cup in my lifetime, but you just added a piece to your team that should help you win one at your end of the continent. Give him some time and you will see you won this trade. good luck, i just became a Canucks fan for the playoffs!

jkibler, I'll agree with you - Lindy Ruff sure does find a way to turn a diamond into a turd.
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Re: Canucks get Zack Kassian

Postby Potatoe1 » Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:15 pm

Jovorock wrote:
nyintensity wrote:
He's a strong power forward (still young) that can do well along the boards and maintain possession of the puck. He is NOT an elite talent, and I don't think he's got the skill to ever become one. .

I think most Saber fans are throwing Kassian under the bus, guys like Pierre McvGuirre are saying a different opinion. Coho has one more year of pro hockey, so he is more advanced at this time. Coho spend a full year in the AHL, he should be more advanced!


I dont think saying "he doesn't have elite talent" is throwing him under the buss at all.

I'm, not sure people get how tough, physical, and down right mean Kassian is. This is not Steve Bernier, or Taylor Payatt, this is a kid who could probably carve himself a niche as an NHL heavyweight.

Guys like that who have "good" not "elite" skill are great assets to NHL teams. Does Milan Lucic have elite skill?

Not saying Kassian is as good as Lucic but that is in my mind the player he would be most similar too should he reach the upper end of his potential.

If he can be a 20 goal 40 point guy with his size and toughness, he's a huge asset and perhaps even more valuable then the 60+ point guy Cody Hodgson will most likely turn into.
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Re: Canucks get Zack Kassian

Postby Potatoe1 » Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:22 pm

jkibler wrote:As a lifelong sabre fan here in wextern NY, i was shocked to see Kassian go.
I felt that we had 3 "untouchables" and that he was 1 of them. Give him time to develope and you will have a helluva player. The sabres just got a lot smaller and much more cowardly. I know nothing of Cody, but i am sure once he hits Buffalo he will turn into an average at best player as everyone does when they join the sabres. I am convinced tehy wont win a cup in my lifetime, but you just added a piece to your team that should help you win one at your end of the continent. Give him some time and you will see you won this trade. good luck, i just became a Canucks fan for the playoffs!


Cody also has excellent leadership skills and is probably in the top5% in terms of off ice dedication.

He's just a kid right now of course but over the long term if that stuff is a problem in Buffalo, he will have a big impact there as well.

The Canucks are lucky in that our top players all ready set the standard in terms of conditioning and off ice leadership so that side of Cody didn't matter.
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Re: Canucks get Zack Kassian

Postby Southern_Canuck » Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:28 pm

Potatoe1 wrote:Tough move by Gillis, I guess we'll see.


This is the part that I have to admire - it is a very gutsy trade with the Canucks sitting on top of the NHL standings.

Trading a very good-to-great young center for a relatively unproven potential power forward is an incredibly ballsy move that you wouldn't see a Nonis (for example) make, so I'll give credit to Gillis for rolling the dice.

However, Gillis' risky trades are no picnic so far, about 50-50:

October 22 2011
To Vancouver: David Booth, Stephen Reinprecht, and 2013 third round pick
To Florida: Mikael Samuelsson, Marco Sturm

Great trade, in that Gillis gave up a mistake free agent (Sturm) and an aging, oft injured enigma in Samuelsson for a younger, drive to the net winger. Sure Samuelsson added to the powerplay, and could score goals, but he was also defensively irresponsible and breaking down due to injury.

June 25, 2010
To Vancouver: Keith Ballard, Victor Oreskovich
To Florida: Michael Grabner, Steve Bernier, and 2010 first round pick (#25 Quinton Howden)

What a terrible trade.

August 28, 2009
To Vancouver: Christian Ehrhoff and Brad Lukowich
To San Jose: Rights to Patrick White (now #25 pick in 2012) and Daniel Rahimi

Fantastic trade - Ehrhoff fit the Canucks like a glove, and helped elevate their powerplay to #1.

July 4, 2008:
To Vancouver: Steve Bernier
To Buffalo: 2009 third round pick (#66 Brayden McNabb) and 2010 second round pick (#55 Petr Straka)

Bernier never panned out to be the power forward Gillis hoped to acquire in David Backes, and Canuck fans can only watch the Buffalo prospects hit the NHL. Funny how Gillis hasn't tried an offer sheet since the John Davidson backlash...

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Re: Canucks get Zack Kassian

Postby nyintensity » Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:30 pm

Potatoe1 wrote:The Canucks are lucky in that our top players all ready set the standard in terms of conditioning and off ice leadership so that side of Cody didn't matter.

That's something that doesn't get much publicity here in Buffalo - it makes me curious if that could be part of our problem...that our veteran players aren't playing the mentor role to the fullest they could/should be.
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Re: Canucks get Zack Kassian

Postby Lancer » Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:43 pm

I, for one, fucking hate this deal.

If CoHo had to go, okay. It's clear he was never going to go anywhere before he turned 25 playing under AV and behind Kes and Hank. God only knows what shit has gone on behind closed doors between Hodgson, the coaching staff and Gillis. If it's as bad as it may look, God speed kid and good luck in Buffalo. In that sense I'm happy he'll get a good chance to play in Buffalo and take his career to a step I don't think he would get in Vancouver in at least five year. Buffalo fans, you will love this kid.

BUT...

If you're going to trade away the best young player on the team this side of Cory Schneider, you think Gillis would do better than a straight-up for Zack "Kyle Beach 2.0" Kassian. Give Kassian a couple of bum shoulders and it's hard to tell those two bums apart. Given the info out there, his head is so far up his own ass he's on a first-name basis with his intestinal bacteria. He can't skate to save himself and his AHL output is nothing to drool over - in fact not appreciably better than Beach's 1st year in the A. So he beats up youngsters and prospects, BIG FUCKING DEAL. So he lays flying elbows at other juniors, BIG FUCKING DEAL. He will have his ass handed to him like a playground bitch by the likes of Eager and Clowe. This is another Alex Stojanov/Shawn Antoski/Jim Sandlak anchor while we watch Hodgson light it up with a one-finger salute after every clutch goal to the Vancouver brass - while we console ourselves by cheering as fuck-up Kassian wrestles another goon to the ground because that's the best he can do. At least Lucic has a work ethic and can throw them with the big-leaguers.

The only way Kassian reaches Sergio Momesso output (his max potential IMO) is if the whole team from Gillis, to AV, to Hank to Boothy and on down, give this kid an ass-kicking every morning before practice and brainwash him into not being a douchebag, pull his head out of his ass, work hard for once and learn. I'll get optimistic if I see the second coming of Christ.

The only blip of a bright spot of this trade is M-A Gragnani. Not sure about his defensive game or whether he can play the right side, but I've seen more than a couple of scouting reports say he has a gift for making super-stretch passes that are tape-to-tape. He's young and I'm confident Bones can hone the kid into a useful no. 4-5 D man.

But seriously, Hodgson straight up for a proven top-9 winger and a mid- to late-round draft pick would be understandable. For us to see a potential replacement for Hank as team captain for a lazy, fuck-up bully head-case with a temper - I don't care how big he is - is just deadline prison date rape.

*Zip*(Darcy Regier adjusts his belt) "So, Mikey, same time at the draft table? I'll have a private room for us next time..."

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Re: Canucks get Zack Kassian

Postby tantalum » Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:48 pm

Why do people think an unproven center playing protected minutes which is exactly what Hodgson is would bring back a proven player that isn't essentially a rental?
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Re: Canucks get Zack Kassian

Postby Lancer » Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:49 pm

tantalum wrote:Why do people think an unproven center playing protected minutes which is exactly what Hodgson is would bring back a proven player that isn't essentially a rental?


History aside, would you do, say, Hodgson for Umberger straight up? Maybe Umberger and a 5th?
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Re: Canucks get Zack Kassian

Postby tantalum » Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:53 pm

Lancer wrote:
tantalum wrote:Why do people think an unproven center playing protected minutes which is exactly what Hodgson is would bring back a proven player that isn't essentially a rental?


History aside, would you do, say, Hodgson for Umberger straight up? Maybe Umberger and a 5th?


Likely not no and I like Umberger. The cap hit associated with Umberger would have required other fairly substantive changes in order to add that additional depth on the blueline and up front.

edit: I was looking a this next years cap hit. He likely could be fit in this year but makes things trickier next year I think. In the past I suggested RAymond for Umberger based deal.
Last edited by tantalum on Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Canucks get Zack Kassian

Postby nyintensity » Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:53 pm

Lancer wrote: but I've seen more than a couple of scouting reports say he has a gift for making super-stretch passes that are tape-to-tape.

Don't expect these very often. Although, your players have proven to actually skate and backcheck, so maybe his lack of consistency was more due to lazy Sabres than it was poor passing ability. /shrug
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Re: Canucks get Zack Kassian

Postby Lancer » Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:56 pm

nyintensity wrote:
Lancer wrote: but I've seen more than a couple of scouting reports say he has a gift for making super-stretch passes that are tape-to-tape.

Don't expect these very often. Although, your players have proven to actually skate and backcheck, so maybe his lack of consistency was more due to lazy Sabres than it was poor passing ability. /shrug


Thanks for the info. Maybe he'll do better under a different defensive structure. It worked for Erhoff! ;) How's Gragnani's skating? BTW, have fun watching Hodgson.
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Re: Canucks get Zack Kassian

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:59 pm

That's quite the tantrum Lancer .

Did Kyle Beach score at a ppg clip in his first year in the A ???? Don't think so ..... not even close .

HAs Kyle Beach stood toe to toe with tough kids like Matt Martin and TKO'd a tough dude like Tom Sestito ??? Nope , Beach gets his ass wiped by almost everyone.

Did Kyle Beach even get a sniff on a WJC team ? Again not even close.

Has Beach won a Memorial Cup ? Not to my knowledge.

Is Kassian the dude who has two buggered shoulders ? Nope again.

It seems you have lovers nuts for Cody and I like him myself but he wasn't going to get the opportunity here and nor should he have...... unless you are suggesting Henrik or Kesler should be dealt???? Cuz Cody could certainly step in for those two without missing a beat on a cup challenging team. :lol:

Lots of sour grapes here for a guy who is 21 and was rated very highly by a LOT of NHL scouts/GM's etc.
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Re: Canucks get Zack Kassian

Postby nyintensity » Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:01 pm

Lancer wrote:
nyintensity wrote:
Lancer wrote: but I've seen more than a couple of scouting reports say he has a gift for making super-stretch passes that are tape-to-tape.

Don't expect these very often. Although, your players have proven to actually skate and backcheck, so maybe his lack of consistency was more due to lazy Sabres than it was poor passing ability. /shrug


Thanks for the info. Maybe he'll do better under a different defensive structure. It worked for Erhoff! ;) How's Gragnani's skating? BTW, have fun watching Hodgson.

He's got good legs - he's been put in at LW here and there. It's his decision making and passing that would upset you before his work ethic and skating do.

I have really high hopes for Hodgson...then again, I've had high hopes for all things Buffalo for a long time. :/
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Re: Canucks get Zack Kassian

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:03 pm

tantalum wrote:Why do people think an unproven center playing protected minutes which is exactly what Hodgson is would bring back a proven player that isn't essentially a rental?


Because we should have gotten Clowe or Lucic along with a 1st rounder back for Hodgson and Alberts. Gillis isn't supposed to make decent/good deals that might benefit both teams, he's supposed to rape every team in every deal.
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Re: Canucks get Zack Kassian

Postby nyintensity » Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:07 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
tantalum wrote:Why do people think an unproven center playing protected minutes which is exactly what Hodgson is would bring back a proven player that isn't essentially a rental?


Because we should have gotten Clowe or Lucic along with a 1st rounder back for Hodgson and Alberts. Gillis isn't supposed to make decent/good deals that might benefit both teams, he's supposed to rape every team in every deal.

That's what good GM's do. If they don't do that, OMGTHEYSUCK!!!! ;)
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