Why the Oilers "rebuild" is truly doomed

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Re: Why the Oilers "rebuild" is truly doomed

Postby westvandal » Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:32 pm

ESQ wrote:
Fred wrote:They're some thing like Quebec was a year or so before they moved to Denver


Now that is an interesting comparison. Quebec moves to Colorado with Sakic, Forsberg, Foote, Owen Nolan, plus all the parts that became Roy.

My question is, are any of the Oiler 3 comparable to Sakic or Forsberg? I don't think they do, nor do I think they have the upside to develop into Hall of Famers.
Similarly, do any of the Oiler 3 compare to Toews, Crosby, Getzlaf/Perry? Again, I don't think so.

They possibly do.
However, I don't think Quebec is a good example at all because of the cap era. That Nordiques had a longer window to allow a slow rebuild, thus having these players play together longer and allow chemistry to build slowly. The cap will not allow this.

I also think it is interesting to note Edmonton's lack of desirability to the Free Agent market....tough to compliment your core with that reality facing Oiler management.
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Re: Why the Oilers "rebuild" is truly doomed

Postby herb » Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:45 pm

westvandal wrote:I also think it is interesting to note Edmonton's lack of desirability to the Free Agent market....tough to compliment your core with that reality facing Oiler management.


They will likely continue to have to overpay to attract free agents. IMO Souray, Khabibulin and even Eager were overpayments.
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Re: Why the Oilers "rebuild" is truly doomed

Postby Fred » Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:47 pm

ESQ wrote:
Fred wrote:They're some thing like Quebec was a year or so before they moved to Denver


Now that is an interesting comparison. Quebec moves to Colorado with Sakic, Forsberg, Foote, Owen Nolan, plus all the parts that became Roy.

My question is, are any of the Oiler 3 comparable to Sakic or Forsberg? I don't think they do, nor do I think they have the upside to develop into Hall of Famers.
Similarly, do any of the Oiler 3 compare to Toews, Crosby, Getzlaf/Perry? Again, I don't think so.


You might note i did say a year or so before they moved to Denver. And not maybe in all ways but players like RNH are not far off or similar to Sakic and players like Hall will become as he grows into the position a power forward. Players of the calibre of Foote can be had via FA and there are a number of top goalies available these days ( Only Philly can screw that up ) If Oilers can move down bi-pass the host of Russians in the 1-2-3 slot at the draft by trading down they pick up a Ryan Murray/Griffin Reinhart or similar the roster is looking good for a number years
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Re: Why the Oilers "rebuild" is truly doomed

Postby Per » Sat Feb 11, 2012 3:29 am

coco_canuck wrote:The prospects and young players like Paajarvi and Omark aren't locks to be stars next year, although I really like Paajarvi, and the rest of those players are varying degrees away from being ready.


Not sure what the problem is with Pääjärvi. He had a pretty decent 34 point rookie season last year, but now he seems to be struggling. Injury?

Based on what he has shown earlier, I'd say he has the potential to become an 80-100 point player. He played in three WJC tournaments, ie he made the team two years earlier than his peers...! I think he had 2 points in six games at his first WJC, seven in his second and ten in his last.
He had 29 points in the SEL as an 18 year old. For comparisson, at that age Zetterberg had 28, Forsberg 27 and Bäckström 26. ( OK, Daniel Sedin had 42, Näslund had 40 and Henrik Sedin 34, but it's not every team that can acquire players as talented as the Canucks... :wink: )

He has speed, skill and great hockey sense. Not sure what's holding him back. But I'm sure he'll be an excellent player eventually.
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Re: Why the Oilers "rebuild" is truly doomed

Postby Uncle dans leg » Sat Feb 11, 2012 7:13 am

Per wrote:
coco_canuck wrote:The prospects and young players like Paajarvi and Omark aren't locks to be stars next year, although I really like Paajarvi, and the rest of those players are varying degrees away from being ready.


Not sure what the problem is with Pääjärvi.


He never should have dropped the Svensson. His Svenskan ancestors are pissed he went with the Finnish surname.
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Re: Why the Oilers "rebuild" is truly doomed

Postby RoyalDude » Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:42 am

This thread basicially points out the paranoia and realization for Canuck fans that with great young hockey players in Hall, Eberle, RNH and now seemingly Sam Gagner that the much dreaded Oilers have the potential to be real scarey once the Sedin era begins to wane and those nightmares of the beat downs that the Gretzky/Messier/Coffey/Fuhr Oilers constantly handed us for many years may reign once again if these hotshot rookies in Oil Town get a decent support group around them as they pile up the experience and chemistry and cockiness.

If this weren't the case we wouldn't be having a thread about the 'new Oilers' with this many replies in a Canuck forum. It's unprecedented. I think some of you is getting a little worried and needing a little consoling and help quashing the Oilers potential.

I've said it before, Gillis was gift wrapped a real good team right on the bubble of playoff success and regular season dominance. Gillis hasn't been truly tested as a GM in building a 'good hockey team'. Most GM's get new jobs with shitty hockey teams and have to build from scratch. When you start with a team that has the Sedins, Kesler, Luongo, Schneider, Bieksa, Edler, Hansen, Raymond, Salo, Burrows, you have landed a pretty damn good gig. We will get to see what Gillis is truly made of as soon as the Sedins game starts to show its age. If Tambellini manages to build a decent support group for the young Oiler stars and Gillis doesn't manage to counter that with eye on the next generation up behind the Sedins. We could be getting some serious beat downs for a long time from the Oilers once again.

Oh yeah, this young Oiler group may be getting a very good quality D-man in the up coming draft if they pick in the top 5 being that this is a good year for drafting D-men.

Eberle, Hall and RNH are just too good for the Oilers to be bad forever. Those three players will be finishing in the top 10 in scoring for many years. And if Gagner has truly arrived well shit, lookout. Lets just hope that Paajarvi doesn't wake up one day.
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Re: Why the Oilers "rebuild" is truly doomed

Postby Potatoe1 » Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:24 am

Fred wrote:Players of the calibre of Foote can be had via FA and there are a number of top goalies available these days



Huh?

When was the last time a team signed a defenseman at Adam Foots level in free agency?

Look at the Avs team that won the first cup.

Even if we project the Oilers trio to be as good as Sakic, Forsberg and Kamenski, what about the goaltending, defense and high end grit players....

Where are Foot, Ozolinch, Deadmarsh, Ricci, Lemieux, Keane, Simon, Krupp, and Lefevbre.

Oh and then there is the small problem finding a goaltender who's in the conversation as the best in history....

The Av's supporting cast would be a first place team even without their top3 offensive players, comparing that team to the Oilers is absolutely ridiculous.

Like I said the Oilers need 8 to 10 high quality players and then this conversation would have some relevance, right now it's silly.
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Re: Why the Oilers "rebuild" is truly doomed

Postby Fred » Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:41 am

Foote was not a high skilled D he did it with heart and intimidation tough as nails. It was a different era. But the other you mentioned were the heart of the team right enough.He was a better version of Dana Murzyn tough and nasty

But Ozolinch, Deadmarsh, Ricci, Lemieux, Keane, Simon, Krupp, and Lefevbre. Deadmarsh could score and I recall at the draft speaking to a friend in Quebec city telling him you're going to love this guy...mean...mean as they came so to was Ricci. Lemieux, Keane, Simon but they'd be in the box today all game long. Krupp was big, big, big but slow and Lefevbre you had to check the number to see if he was playing. Tough to compare player for player different game then and now. But Edmonton is perched ready to go. Look at the players Vcr have after Sedin X 2 + Kesler + Luongo there are no stars Higgin, Hansen, Raymond, Lapierre, Weise, Bitz, Burrows ( stroke of genius by Sutherland the Moose scout ) but we're a team near the top of the table. Edmonton have as many future stars as we have mature stars....what would make a man write them off
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Re: Why the Oilers "rebuild" is truly doomed

Postby damonberryman » Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:56 am

Not sure what the problem is with Pääjärvi. He had a pretty decent 34 point rookie season last year, but now he seems to be struggling. Injury?

Really agree on this one. Kid showed seious wheels in all the places already mentioned and except for Hopkins I think he has the most upside and they are ruining the Nuge. I remember in the World Juniour how Magnus was fast but also the way he went to the net. I wouold love to see him mentored by the Sedins. I imagine he could be had for a decent price and certainly a first rounder plus a mid would do it.
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Re: Why the Oilers "rebuild" is truly doomed

Postby Potatoe1 » Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:03 pm

Fred wrote:Foote was not a high skilled D he did it with heart and intimidation tough as nails. It was a different era. But the other you mentioned were the heart of the team right enough.He was a better version of Dana Murzyn tough and nasty



Are you for real?

Foot was easily one of the best defensive defenseman of that era and played a huge role for those AV's teams.

Comparing him to Murzyn is laughable.

Again, the Oilers are about 5 excellent players, and 5 quality players away from being even close to the AV's team that left Quebec.

Hell they are probably 5 players away from the current Ducks team that is sitting outside of the playoffs despite having one of the best forward Trios in the league.

That Ducks team not only has their trio, but they have Selane, Fowler, Visnovsky, and Hiller, all of whom are superior to any Oiler outside of their Big 3.
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Re: Why the Oilers "rebuild" is truly doomed

Postby Fred » Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:12 pm

Jesus you can be difficult when you put your mind to it. I said "a better version" of Murzyn....same principal though. I watched Foote for years, good position and VERY intimidating. It worked for him in an era when any thing went. Every time a player went past Murzyn he gave them a healthy doze of his stick, you left the game badly bruised. As Cliff Ronning said there wasn't a player in the league liked playing against Dana Murzyn, Gretzky picked him out as the worse (Meanest ) D he played against, he hated playing against him. Well I watched Foote for years and he was exactly the same but better feet and a tad better hockey sense. BUT they both played the intimidation game to perfection. They both backed it up but again Foote threw better than Murzyn. :D

Getzlaff is doing a Gomez in Anaheim ( he has his money so why care ) and Hillier IMO is still not healthy, he's certainly not the stalwart he was a couple of seasons ago. I like Fowler as an offensive threat and he will be good but right now 3 goals and a whopping minus 20. They have 10 FA this summer and i think there will be a new coach and a lot of new faces, plus they have an internal budget
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Re: Why the Oilers "rebuild" is truly doomed

Postby Potatoe1 » Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:03 pm

Fred wrote:Jesus you can be difficult when you put your mind to it. I said "a better version" of Murzyn....same principal


Yes they are comparable, one of them was one of the top defense-man of his era and the other one wasn't. Something tells me that Dana Murzyn wasn't on the short list to play for team Canada in 96, 02, and 04, like Foote was......

BTW Foot was a 20 to 30 point defenceman (per 82) through his prime years. That was during the dead puck era and with out getting much power play time.

He was a good 2-way player at even strength on top of being incredibly tough to ply against.

Like I said, it's been a long time since a defenceman as good as Adam Foote was available via free agency. If they Oilers want a defenceman like that they better be ready to spend a lottery pick because that is probably what it will take.
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Re: Why the Oilers "rebuild" is truly doomed

Postby Fred » Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:49 pm

I looked at what maybe was his prime the 97-98 season ( 25 years ago ) he was 84th in the league in Pts with 3 goals + 14 helpers, ...... but 26th in the league with 124 PIM's....... His +/- was identical to Dana Murzyn at a -3 which ranked him 183 in the league.

So

84th in pts
26th in PIM's
183 in +/-

A true legend in his time. Maybe it was before your time ?

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm? ... mmary&pg=1

as I recall he was from Ontario which was a big plus and one of Cherry's favourites.

Now had you been talking Al McGinnis,Rob BLake or Scott Neidermyer, you'd have my ear
Last edited by Fred on Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why the Oilers "rebuild" is truly doomed

Postby Uncle dans leg » Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:51 pm

Foote was an ass kicking D-man that was far better than stats would ever indicate. He was a mean SOB
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Re: Why the Oilers "rebuild" is truly doomed

Postby Fred » Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:54 pm

Uncle dans leg wrote:Foote was an ass kicking D-man that was far better than stats would ever indicate. He was a mean SOB



EXACTLY the point I was making one tough dude...intimidator,,,,his stats show that
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