Farhan's $0.02: Dustin Byfuglien and the Vancouver Canucks

[Mondi]

My view of the whole thing is that contending teams rarely, if ever, trade key pieces for other team's key pieces. And, contending teams rarely make significant deals, period. This is without mentioning teams that have zero cap space.

However, what really gets to me is hair-brained trade proposals that involve our spare parts (yes Ballard and Raymond are spare parts) for quality players like Byfuglien.

You want Byfuggy it will take Cody Hodgson or Burrows or Booth. And you tell me, would you do that?

Coho is just coming into his own, so I wouldn't trade him. But he's the kind of player that it will take to get someone with skills.

Any competent GM knows all they need to know about freaking Mason Raymond.

[Todd Bersnoozi]

I will say this, I would of luved to have seen Buffy stick his butt in Tim Thomas's face; Thomas, trying tackling Buffy rather than a Sedin. What about Chara having to deal with Buffy in front of the next rather than shutting down the Sedins? Marchand, I dare u to punch Buffy in the face 6X or skate around clipping guys with Buffy on the ice.

[Fred]

I will say this, I would of luved to have seen Buffy stick his butt in Tim Thomas's face; Thomas, trying tackling Buffy rather than a Sedin. What about Chara having to deal with Buffy in front of the next rather than shutting down the Sedins? Marchand, I dare u to punch Buffy in the face 6X or skate around clipping guys with Buffy on the ice.

The things is do you need to pay $5.5 million to do that. George Parros could do that for $850K

[Mondi]

GP ain't playing the minutes Buffy is, nor does have a hope in hell of netting a hat trick.

If for some reason you get 2010 Buffy versus Boston you're laughing. But what if you get regular season Buffy? Big and useless.

[ukcanuck]

How is the view from up there on that horse Mond? if we cant make silly predictions and stoopid trade suggestions here where are you going to go to feel better about yourself? hehe
Seriously whats wrong with our spareparts? Schneids is much more than spare he's a quality piece of the puzzle, same with Raymond although not so much with Ballard...
If its me as GMMG i wouldnt be making any excuses for those three.

Okay, here's a question. Let's say the Canucks were still struggling and in 9th or 10th place.

Would you take Cam Fowler, Andrew Cogliano and Nik Hagman for Ryan Kesler or Henrik Sedin.

Mason Raymond has 22 goals over his last 114 games. You tell me what you think of that.

Are you drawing a comparison between Byfuglien and Kesler or Sedin? Selke and Hart calibre players?

obviously i would not make that trade but I would jump at three roster players for one if another team was stupid enough to offer it.
Schneider, Raymond and Ballard for Byfuglien is a ridiculous good deal for the Jets and a stupid deal for the Canucks.

[Island Nucklehead]

Schneider, Raymond and Ballard for Byfuglien is a ridiculous good deal for the Jets and a stupid deal for the Canucks.

That really depends. I agree the Canucks don't need Byfuglien, they don't have trouble getting points from the back-end, he's not the character-type guy they're after, makes too much money etc. But the Jets don't exactly need our spare parts. They have Ondrej Pavelec, who is only 24 and is 10th in minutes played this season. The Jets are obviously not a great team, but Pavelec still has a save % north of .900 and a GAA under 3. I would doubt they're ready to give up on him yet.

Fugly has 6G 18A 24Pts -8 46 PIMs in 35 games. That averages out to a 13G 42A 56Pts 107 Pims over a full season. Awesome offensive numbers for a D-man. He would outscore Raymond and Ballard combined if everyone played a full season at their current production.

I'd have to agree with mondi here for Ballard and Raymond. Raymond is a second liner on some teams, a third liner on others, and Ballard's stock couldn't possibly be lower at the moment.


One team we haven't heard about too much is the Tampa Bay Lightening. They're not likely to make the playoffs (12th in the East 9 points out), and have a couple D-men UFA at the end of the season in Kubina and Brett Clark. Kubina is +4 and playing 19:45/night and shoots right. Not exactly fleet of foot but he's got a decent shot and is a big body (6'4, 250).

[ukcanuck]

Schneider, Raymond and Ballard for Byfuglien is a ridiculous good deal for the Jets and a stupid deal for the Canucks.

That really depends. I agree the Canucks don't need Byfuglien, they don't have trouble getting points from the back-end, he's not the character-type guy they're after, makes too much money etc. But the Jets don't exactly need our spare parts. They have Ondrej Pavelec, who is only 24 and is 10th in minutes played this season. The Jets are obviously not a great team, but Pavelec still has a save % north of .900 and a GAA under 3. I would doubt they're ready to give up on him yet.

Fugly has 6G 18A 24Pts -8 46 PIMs in 35 games. That averages out to a 13G 42A 56Pts 107 Pims over a full season. Awesome offensive numbers for a D-man. He would outscore Raymond and Ballard combined if everyone played a full season at their current production.

I'd have to agree with mondi here for Ballard and Raymond. Raymond is a second liner on some teams, a third liner on others, and Ballard's stock couldn't possibly be lower at the moment.


One team we haven't heard about too much is the Tampa Bay Lightening. They're not likely to make the playoffs (12th in the East 9 points out), and have a couple D-men UFA at the end of the season in Kubina and Brett Clark. Kubina is +4 and playing 19:45/night and shoots right. Not exactly fleet of foot but he's got a decent shot and is a big body (6'4, 250).

a comparable trade in my mind was the LInden for Bertuzzi and McCabe. At the time Linden was a fan favourite and many were unhappy but over time Bert and the Sedins made that team what it was for a decade or more and still counting.
Schneider has the potential to be the best goalie in Hockey, Raymond and Ballard would fit in nicely allowing the Jets other options...I guess the differece in our positions is that I dont classify Raymond Schneider and Ballard as spare parts. They are NHL ready players that would fit on almost any club and I think Gillis can do a better deal than fugly anyway
As for tampa, I wonder what it would take to get Ohlund back? we know what he can do and I bet he would be pumped to play for a stanley cup with his home away from home.. the kharma sounds about right anyway

[Island Nucklehead]

a comparable trade in my mind was the LInden for Bertuzzi and McCabe. At the time Linden was a fan favourite and many were unhappy but over time Bert and the Sedins made that team what it was for a decade or more and still counting.
Schneider has the potential to be the best goalie in Hockey, Raymond and Ballard would fit in nicely allowing the Jets other options...I guess the differece in our positions is that I dont classify Raymond Schneider and Ballard as spare parts. They are NHL ready players that would fit on almost any club and I think Gillis can do a better deal than fugly anyway
As for tampa, I wonder what it would take to get Ohlund back? we know what he can do and I bet he would be pumped to play for a stanley cup with his home away from home.. the kharma sounds about right anyway

Well the thing when goalies are involved you have to always consider organizational depth at that position. When Linden was dealt he wasn't playing good hockey. 7 goals through 42 games and a -13. Bryan McCabe was the Captain of the Islanders at the time and Todd Bertuzzi was a former first round pick that finally met his potential in Vancouver.

Schneider certainly has the potential to be one of the better goalies in hockey. The question is wether the Jets want to give up a 55 point D-man for a starting goalie when they already have a young starter in net. From the Canucks, do you want to unload your most valuable trading chip for someone who you're not even sure what position they'll play? It just doesn't seem like a good fit for either team.

To make credible trade proposals we really must look at both teams involved. You wouldn't think Schneider would go to a team that has an established or up-and-coming goalie and/or rivalries with Vancouver. So I wouldn't think he's going to LA, NSH, DET, CHI, SJS, CGY, EDM, COL, MIN, STL, BUF, FLA, MTL, NYR, PHI, BOS, PIT.... who does that leave?

Winnipeg might be a possibility, but only if they give up on Paelec. IMO they won't do that AND shed Byfuglien. Byfuglien and Pavelec is more valuable to them then Schneider/Ballard/Raymond.

Dallas has Lehtonen in goal for another year after this one, and he's played fairly well there. No rush for them to go out and make a splash for Schneider, especially not with Jack Campbell coming down the pipeline.

Carolina. Cam Ward has been up and down. It's a possibility but an unlikely one.

Columbus. Could be a destination with Mason proving he's not the wonder-child once thought to be.

Anaheim. Plenty of rumours there. Hiller might not be the guy.

New Jersey. Brodeur only has so much time left.

Tampa. Needs a goalie.

NY Islanders. They'd consider it. But with their revolving door of tenders who knows...

Phoenix. Mike Smith is playing very well. Is he the guy going forward?

Washington. Vokun hasn't been a solid addition and is 36.

Toronto. Media will hype Reimer and Gustafsson after 2-3 solid games. They'd be interested in a bona-fide starter.

[Calgary_Canuck]

So, I have to ask is this the same Farhan on TSN? Or is it a copy cat?

[Vpete]

a comparable trade in my mind was the LInden for Bertuzzi and McCabe. At the time Linden was a fan favourite and many were unhappy but over time Bert and the Sedins made that team what it was for a decade or more and still counting.
Schneider has the potential to be the best goalie in Hockey, Raymond and Ballard would fit in nicely allowing the Jets other options...I guess the differece in our positions is that I dont classify Raymond Schneider and Ballard as spare parts. They are NHL ready players that would fit on almost any club and I think Gillis can do a better deal than fugly anyway
As for tampa, I wonder what it would take to get Ohlund back? we know what he can do and I bet he would be pumped to play for a stanley cup with his home away from home.. the kharma sounds about right anyway

Well the thing when goalies are involved you have to always consider organizational depth at that position. When Linden was dealt he wasn't playing good hockey. 7 goals through 42 games and a -13. Bryan McCabe was the Captain of the Islanders at the time and Todd Bertuzzi was a former first round pick that finally met his potential in Vancouver.

Schneider certainly has the potential to be one of the better goalies in hockey. The question is wether the Jets want to give up a 55 point D-man for a starting goalie when they already have a young starter in net. From the Canucks, do you want to unload your most valuable trading chip for someone who you're not even sure what position they'll play? It just doesn't seem like a good fit for either team.

To make credible trade proposals we really must look at both teams involved. You wouldn't think Schneider would go to a team that has an established or up-and-coming goalie and/or rivalries with Vancouver. So I wouldn't think he's going to LA, NSH, DET, CHI, SJS, CGY, EDM, COL, MIN, STL, BUF, FLA, MTL, NYR, PHI, BOS, PIT.... who does that leave?

Winnipeg might be a possibility, but only if they give up on Paelec. IMO they won't do that AND shed Byfuglien. Byfuglien and Pavelec is more valuable to them then Schneider/Ballard/Raymond.

Dallas has Lehtonen in goal for another year after this one, and he's played fairly well there. No rush for them to go out and make a splash for Schneider, especially not with Jack Campbell coming down the pipeline.

Carolina. Cam Ward has been up and down. It's a possibility but an unlikely one.

Columbus. Could be a destination with Mason proving he's not the wonder-child once thought to be.

Anaheim. Plenty of rumours there. Hiller might not be the guy.

New Jersey. Brodeur only has so much time left.

Tampa. Needs a goalie.

NY Islanders. They'd consider it. But with their revolving door of tenders who knows...

Phoenix. Mike Smith is playing very well. Is he the guy going forward?

Washington. Vokun hasn't been a solid addition and is 36.

Toronto. Media will hype Reimer and Gustafsson after 2-3 solid games. They'd be interested in a bona-fide starter.

The Jets are not giving anyone up for Schneider, nothing to see here move along now.

Byfuglien may be the one key asset they have to keep along with Ladd, Bogosian, Wheeler and Burmistrov. Word is still out on Kane as the kid's attitude may be too big for Winnipeg. Lots of probs away from the rink.

To give you an idea of how mixed up the Jets are they play Antropov on the PK!!

If the Jets need anything its a true number one centre and so do a lot of other teams is that what Vancouver parts with? Not in my opinion but perhaps Anaheim would by sending Buff for Getzlaf type deal. That's the pipe dream many have in Winnipeg.

[ukcanuck]

The Jets are not giving anyone up for Schneider, nothing to see here move along now.

Byfuglien may be the one key asset they have to keep along with Ladd, Bogosian, Wheeler and Burmistrov. Word is still out on Kane as the kid's attitude may be too big for Winnipeg. Lots of probs away from the rink.

To give you an idea of how mixed up the Jets are they play Antropov on the PK!!

If the Jets need anything its a true number one centre and so do a lot of other teams is that what Vancouver parts with? Not in my opinion but perhaps Anaheim would by sending Buff for Getzlaf type deal. That's the pipe dream many have in Winnipeg.

I'm sorry I didn't realise we had a resident psychic on board. perhaps you meant to say IMO ?
i mean the Moose who are now the Jets had as close up a view on Schneider's development as one can get, if anyone knows this kids potential its them, However, let me be clear here, I don't want to trade Schneider for Fugly i just objected to the undervaluation of the Canucks trade able players

[Vpete]

The Jets are not giving anyone up for Schneider, nothing to see here move along now.

Byfuglien may be the one key asset they have to keep along with Ladd, Bogosian, Wheeler and Burmistrov. Word is still out on Kane as the kid's attitude may be too big for Winnipeg. Lots of probs away from the rink.

To give you an idea of how mixed up the Jets are they play Antropov on the PK!!

If the Jets need anything its a true number one centre and so do a lot of other teams is that what Vancouver parts with? Not in my opinion but perhaps Anaheim would by sending Buff for Getzlaf type deal. That's the pipe dream many have in Winnipeg.

I'm sorry I didn't realise we had a resident psychic on board. perhaps you meant to say IMO ?
i mean the Moose who are now the Jets had as close up a view on Schneider's development as one can get, if anyone knows this kids potential its them, However, let me be clear here, I don't want to trade Schneider for Fugly i just objected to the undervaluation of the Canucks trade able players

I don't have to be psychic, just using common sense. The Moose are in St. John's but the former GM is still in Winnipeg and he may like Schneider but he is not the final say, another guy is. If you dropped Pavelec in Schneider's place I would suspect similar numbers, he's good but what's in front of him needs improvement. Trading away Byfuglien for a similar goalie does not in any way help the Winnipeg Jets.

[ukcanuck]

I don't have to be psychic, just using common sense. The Moose are in St. John's but the former GM is still in Winnipeg and he may like Schneider but he is not the final say, another guy is. If you dropped Pavelec in Schneider's place I would suspect similar numbers, he's good but what's in front of him needs improvement. Trading away Byfuglien for a similar goalie does not in any way help the Winnipeg Jets.

huh? this statement makes no sense to me. Do you mean ownership? why would they interfere with the GM's job description like that and what person would want the GM job without being able to make a routine trade? a Schneider trade would hardly break the bank.

[dbr]

I don't have to be psychic, just using common sense. The Moose are in St. John's but the former GM is still in Winnipeg and he may like Schneider but he is not the final say, another guy is. If you dropped Pavelec in Schneider's place I would suspect similar numbers, he's good but what's in front of him needs improvement. Trading away Byfuglien for a similar goalie does not in any way help the Winnipeg Jets.

huh? this statement makes no sense to me. Do you mean ownership? why would they interfere with the GM's job description like that and what person would want the GM job without being able to make a routine trade? a Schneider trade would hardly break the bank.

The final say goes to the team's GM (Kevin Cheveldayoff) who had no ties to the organization prior to their purchase of an NHL franchise.

Bottom line is that one of the things the Jets have is a fine young goaltender with a high ceiling - there are teams out there willing to make a big trade to get Corey Schneider but the likelihood of the Jets being one of them is extremely low.

[zephyr]

As for tampa, I wonder what it would take to get Ohlund back? we know what he can do and I bet he would be pumped to play for a stanley cup with his home away from home.. the kharma sounds about right anyway

I entertained the idea, but Ohlund's game was already going south when he left here. Loved the guy in his prime though. Furthermore:

- arthroscopic surgery on BOTH knees
- has 3 (?) years left with a $3.6M cap hit
- put up 5 points last year on a high scoring tampa club