GDT: Oil vs Nucks - 7pm - SNETP

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Re: GDT: Oil vs Nucks - 7pm - SNETP

Postby damonberryman » Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:48 am

I did not like Hall at first but I got to admit the kid is just burning with spirit for the game. Did you see the scar left by the skate? Holy ramolly as someone might have said! Glad it was not me. Man. And the kid wanted to come back same game? he has got himself some jam for certain. Plus he can fly and shoot. I like him. He would sure look good with CoHo. Dreaming but what the hell? The team looked good even with the lack of production from our big guns. Score could have been much higher.
The whole Tyler Taylor thing is starting to look like a wash. I would happily take both. Anyone see the beauty Sequin scored off a steal in Washington? A backhand of beauty but it is the speed he showed with his hands that made me sit up. Only a few are born with that kind of stuff. Toronto lost a good one when they lost him. I know they got a wonderful player for the picks but man the kid is good and apparently the young D they picked up as the other piece of the package (Hamilton I think) is going to be a good one as well. I can still see Burke's thinking but barely.
The Preds are looking very good these days. They are able to put the puck in better than last year and their D is among the best. Getting out of the West is going to be a dog fight and we will need to be healthy. Going to need more depth on D than we have right now. Gleason or someone similar would do the trick. I watched Hamonic play and can see why folks are high on him. Tough kid too.
Chi looks lost without Captain cry baby at the helm and some forwards are treating Keith like they own him this year. Got to admit Kane can pass and shoot as much as I dislike the punk. Lovely lead passing over the last week. Seems to be a natural center. Detroit is looking invincible right now. Babcock is getting the best out of Bert, that is for sure. On another note it is a shame to see some player like Nash lost in Ohio. Probably the best power moves I have seen for some time if at all.
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Re: GDT: Oil vs Nucks - 7pm - SNETP

Postby coco_canuck » Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:00 pm

damonberryman wrote:The whole Tyler Taylor thing is starting to look like a wash.


Right now, I'd take Seguin. He's a better 2-way player, he's bigger, a better playmakers and he can play both pivot and wing.

Hall has a certain explosiveness that reminds me of Rick Nash, but he's also much smaller and is always an injury risk because of how he plays.

Don't get me wrong, I think Hall is a fantastic talent with great upside, but I really like Seguin's game.
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Re: GDT: Oil vs Nucks - 7pm - SNETP

Postby damonberryman » Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:18 pm

coco_canuck wrote:
damonberryman wrote:The whole Tyler Taylor thing is starting to look like a wash.


Right now, I'd take Seguin. He's a better 2-way player, he's bigger, a better playmakers and he can play both pivot and wing.

Hall has a certain explosiveness that reminds me of Rick Nash, but he's also much smaller and is always an injury risk because of how he plays.

Don't get me wrong, I think Hall is a fantastic talent with great upside, but I really like Seguin's game.

You may be right about the injury potential but when he first came out he seemed like he was just full of himself. I suppose it is appropriate given his age but I did not see that with Tyler. It is the kids guts I like. he is going through the grinder in Edmonton with a losing team that does not have the coaching or perhaps the management to win any time soon to say nothing of their lack of D. If he can stay healthy he is going to have a long career and score a lot of goals. Tyler has teh luxury of being brought along by a team that wins on a regular basis. His only character test I am aware of is getting benched ude to missing some team meeting or practice. Other than that it is smooth sailing. I see no sign YET of him pulling a Horty and turning into a bully but it is early.
On another note, I watched the Stewart show clip and had not previously noticed how quickly Chara came over to protect the rat after the Salo hit. I mean he was right on time. I wonder who he was protecting him from? I understand about the PP being the best revenge but nothing in the score changes the fact one of their targeted one of ours and so far has gotten away with it. Frankly I would have rather one of ours came off the bench and ambushed the little shit even if we lost the game, because in a way we did. If we have to play them in the Finals again we will regret not taking care of business.
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Re: GDT: Oil vs Nucks - 7pm - SNETP

Postby Potatoe1 » Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:47 pm

coco_canuck wrote:
damonberryman wrote:The whole Tyler Taylor thing is starting to look like a wash.


Right now, I'd take Seguin. He's a better 2-way player, he's bigger, a better playmakers and he can play both pivot and wing.

Hall has a certain explosiveness that reminds me of Rick Nash, but he's also much smaller and is always an injury risk because of how he plays.

Don't get me wrong, I think Hall is a fantastic talent with great upside, but I really like Seguin's game.



Right now you have to take Sequin but I think I like Hall more then most people do.

He just has a real dynamic side to his game that you don't see very often anymore. I really think his upside is higher then a lot of the other young forwards that people drool over.
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Re: GDT: Oil vs Nucks - 7pm - SNETP

Postby nuckster » Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:00 pm

The Oilers deserved the point they got last night, the two points could have gone to either team.

On a whole different note here, I have been surprised that AV hasn't put Schneider in for at least one of their recent games! This isn't to suggest that Luo hasn't been playing well, because he has. It's just that come on, Cory is #1 material and he deserves to play. How long before he starts to demand a trade?? I mean really. Does mgmt think that he's going to continue to be ok with staying in Lou's shadow? If was MG, I would be mindful of this and start some serious shopping around for a quality D-man... but then again, maybe he already is?? :hmmm:
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Re: GDT: Oil vs Nucks - 7pm - SNETP

Postby tantalum » Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:17 pm

Hall has good upside to say the least but he is going to have to learn to tweak his style. He's pretty reckless and it could easily lead to some injury issues that begin to mount and decrease his effectiveness. Still an exciting player to be sure.

Seems to be quite a bit of whining around canuck land that it was only a shootout victory and how they played down to inferior competition again etc etc etc. I believe the scoring chances through regulation were 20-5 or so for the canucks. That's not playing down to the competition. That's dominating the competition but not being able to finish.

Good for Luongo on getting the shootout victory. While it is not his strong suit how many more of these skill competitions would he have won if the canucks managed to score some SO goals?
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Re: GDT: Oil vs Nucks - 7pm - SNETP

Postby rats19 » Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:23 pm

If half the posts go In ...well we dominated.
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Re: GDT: Oil vs Nucks - 7pm - SNETP

Postby Larry Goodenough » Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:50 pm

tantalum wrote:Hall has good upside to say the least but he is going to have to learn to tweak his style. He's pretty reckless and it could easily lead to some injury issues that begin to mount and decrease his effectiveness. Still an exciting player to be sure.

Seems to be quite a bit of whining around canuck land that it was only a shootout victory and how they played down to inferior competition again etc etc etc. I believe the scoring chances through regulation were 20-5 or so for the canucks. That's not playing down to the competition. That's dominating the competition but not being able to finish.

Good for Luongo on getting the shootout victory. While it is not his strong suit how many more of these skill competitions would he have won if the canucks managed to score some SO goals?


This from Canucks army...

-First, the important numbers. At 5-on-5 with the score-tied, the Canucks won the scoring chance count 8-5. They were 17-13 at even strength on the night, and 19-13 overall. Taylor Hall's goal, the tying goal for the Edmonton Oilers, was not registered as a scoring chance, but the other three goals in the game were.

-Taylor Hall had a goal and an assist, but he was shut down by Kevin Bieksa tonight. Bieksa saw the majority of minutes against Hall, was +8 in scoring chances and +9 in Corsi. With both players on the ice, the puck was more routinely in the Edmonton Oilers zone, which is very important. While we can also point to "oh, well Hall had a goal and an assist, therefore he had a good game" and award him the 2nd star, let us also point out that the Oilers' star was on the ice for 14 shots against at even strength: two of them went in.
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Re: GDT: Oil vs Nucks - 7pm - SNETP

Postby mathonwy » Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:35 pm

Tyler VS Taylor. I think it's too early too tell, however, there's no doubting that both are blue chippers.

The reason its too early to tell is because the Coil and B's are in radically different stages. B's are defending SC champions and is stacked with depth. The B's and the Nucks are the deepest teams in the league and there is absolutely no pressure on Seguin to succeed. In addition, Seguin is mentored by some pretty amazing players. Krejci, Peverley and Bergeron are pretty good centermen to learn from.

The Coil on the other hand are 29th in the league and this puts immense pressure on Hall to succeed. And Hall doesn't exactly have a veteran cast to learn from so he and the other kids are pretty much figuring it out by himself.

I haven't seen enough of the B's this season to really comment on the play of Seguin but Hall is a great hockey player. Only 20 and one of the most dynamic players in the league. He absolutely burns with a competitive passion and will be a heck of a hockey player when he grows up.

Peter Chiarelli is a fucking genius. Top 3 team in the league and was able to parlay Phil Kessel into Tyler Seguin, Dougie Hamilton and Jared Knight.
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Re: GDT: Oil vs Nucks - 7pm - SNETP

Postby Island Nucklehead » Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:37 pm

mathonwy wrote:Peter Chiarelli is a fucking genius. Top 3 team in the league and was able to parlay Phil Kessel into Tyler Seguin, Dougie Hamilton and Jared Knight.


Or Brian Burke is an idiot...

Kessel is starting to hit his stride as a Leaf, but it's hard not to notice Seguin leading the league in +/- and a team as stacked as the Boston Bruins in scoring, at 19 years old.
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Re: GDT: Oil vs Nucks - 7pm - SNETP

Postby RoyalDude » Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:14 pm

coco_canuck wrote:
His stick-handling is fine by the way.

It's obviously not at an elite level, and certainly not up to par compared to his line mate and fellow American Kesler, but I don't see a player who has trouble carrying the puck through the neutral zone, nor does he have many issues driving to the net with the puck on his stick or even making a move or two to get a shot off.

Booth is looking like the player the Panthers signed to that big extension, and by the summer, people will laugh when reminded that we gave up only Sturm and Samuelsson and somehow ended up coming away with a 3rd round pick as well.

I don't think we should expect Booth to be a flashy player who carries the puck on a string, because he's never been that type of player. He's an incredibly strong and determined player who flourishes in the corners, in-front of the net, backs off defences with his speed, drives the net and has a good, hard shot. He's basically everything the Canucks were lacking in their top 6.

For all the concerns about his defensive game, he's come a long way since he first joined the team. Last night, there were a few instances where he jumped passing lanes, back-checked hard and picked-up the open man on the wing to take away the cross-ice pass. These are little things that make players reliable in their own end, and Booth is improving in that aspect. The Canucks system that's often described as consisting of a "tight five-man unit" is beneficial for fast and aggressive forwards. The back-check and play in their own zone allows the speedy wingers to pick up speed through the neutral zone instead of just hanging back in the neutral zone and waiting for a pass from their own end.

I was getting extremely excited with the Booth-Kes combo before prayer boy decided to cut to go into the slot with his head down, but since returning they've picked up where they left off. I don't want to get ahead of myself, but seeing how well he fits this team and that 2nd line, there's no reason why he shouldn't be a consistent +30 goal scorer here.

What I think that 2nd line needs to work on is reading off one-another a bit better, and that will come with more familiarity. The more Booth keeps succeeding in-front of the net, the more the opposition will focus on preventing that from happen. Kesler has a wicked wrister, but so far this season it's been taken away with aggressive close-outs and convergence on Kes as he gets into the offensive zone in areas where his shot was effective last year, i.e. the high-slot, or just outside of it. What that's done is allow Booth to find seams to the net and has been able to win battles down-low. Once the defences start shifting back a bit, Kesler needs to find openings in that area and get his shot off more often.

We're still in the early stage of this 2nd line playing together, and all signs point to them being even much better down the road.


I disagree with everything you say, regarding Booth. The guy who is famously known for being shitty defensively isn't all of a sudden gonna learn how to play defense since arriving upon these shores, you either like playing defense or you don't. Booth is at a complete lost defensively.

His stick handling is shitty, bottom-line. He is OK if given the room in the neutral zone by the D playing back a little, but when the real estate gets tight for ol' Booth there, the puck is like hot potato, he simply cannot dangle the puck on the string in tight spots, it's almost embarrasing to watch, it doesn't help matters that he has to put his head down to watch the puck cause of his ill-stick handling which might explain why he can't play the cycle, can't find teamates cause well, he doesn't know where they are.

The trade, the players we gave up and pot that Florida sweetened (3rd round pick) to make us take Booth off their hands pretty sets the bar on Booths value. We gave up two old men in the dying days of their career, one with a bum knee for Booth AND A 3rd round pick. Hear's news, Booth isn't that good. He is a one dimensional player, has one weapon in his arsenal and that is maybe every once in a while he can get to the net out wide on a D-man if given the running start at neutral ice. He can't pass, he can't play defense can't stick handle, can't cycle.

I see we are going through it again with Booth as we once did with Ballard. With Ballard some people were sold a bill of goods claming that what we getting with Ballard is Brian Leetch-Little, Little Jovo. So not true, we got a contract that didn't match the product and the same goes for Booth. So, put all your Bill Guerin comparisons aside folks, Booth ain't all that.
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Re: GDT: Oil vs Nucks - 7pm - SNETP

Postby coco_canuck » Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:51 pm

RoyalDude wrote:I disagree with everything you say, regarding Booth. The guy who is famously known for being shitty defensively isn't all of a sudden gonna learn how to play defense since arriving upon these shores, you either like playing defense or you don't. Booth is at a complete lost defensively.


Totally inaccurate.

You're either good defensively or not as a forward?

As a winger you don't need to have the type of defensive awareness a defenseman or a centre has. As long as you're not an idiot, understand the system, and are willing to work on the defensive end, you can do a respectable job as a forward.

The last few games Booth has done a respectable job and then some in his own end. He'll never be a great 2-way forward, but he can hold his own defensively as a forward.

To say that's impossible is pretty preposterous even if you're exaggerating your qualms to play the role of contrarian.

RoyalDude wrote:His stick handling is shitty, bottom-line. He is OK if given the room in the neutral zone by the D playing back a little, but when the real estate gets tight for ol' Booth there, the puck is like hot potato, he simply cannot dangle the puck on the string in tight spots, it's almost embarrasing to watch, it doesn't help matters that he has to put his head down to watch the puck cause of his ill-stick handling which might explain why he can't play the cycle, can't find teamates cause well, he doesn't know where they are.


Exaggerate much?

He can't dangle the puck in tight spaces?

There aren't many NHL players who can "dangle the puck in tight spaces," and a lot of them are pretty good players. He works the corners well, he wins puck battles and he does find teammates in the offensive zone. Maybe if your evaluating him on a standard for elite playmakers and puck-handlers, then obviously he falls short, but that's not the type of player he is, and hasn't needed to be in order to have success in the NHL.

RoyalDude wrote:I see we are going through it again with Booth as we once did with Ballard. With Ballard some people were sold a bill of goods claming that what we getting with Ballard is Brian Leetch-Little, Little Jovo. So not true, we got a contract that didn't match the product and the same goes for Booth. So, put all your Bill Guerin comparisons aside folks, Booth ain't all that.


Really?

Booth is hardly analogous to Ballard in terms of performance as a Canuck. Booth has produced and has been very effective after a slow start. What production or consistent big-minute performances have we seen from Ballard in Vancouver?
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Re: GDT: Oil vs Nucks - 7pm - SNETP

Postby darren » Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:57 pm

RoyalDude wrote: Hear's news, Booth isn't that good. He can't pass, he can't play defense can't stick handle, can't cycle.


He does, however, score goals. After a slow start he basically looks like being close to a point-per-game player. I'm not sure what more you want.
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Re: GDT: Oil vs Nucks - 7pm - SNETP

Postby Potatoe1 » Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:36 pm

RoyalDude wrote:The trade, the players we gave up and pot that Florida sweetened (3rd round pick) to make us take Booth off their hands pretty sets the bar on Booths value. We gave up two old men in the dying days of their career, one with a bum knee for Booth AND A 3rd round pick. Hear's news, Booth isn't that good. He is a one dimensional player, has one weapon in his arsenal and that is maybe every once in a while he can get to the net out wide on a D-man if given the running start at neutral ice. He can't pass, he can't play defense can't stick handle, can't cycle.



Last 17 games - 8 goals 14 points +4

Not much more needs to be said.
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Re: GDT: Oil vs Nucks - 7pm - SNETP

Postby Meds » Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:36 am

RoyalDude wrote:I disagree with everything you say, regarding Booth. The guy who is famously known for being shitty defensively isn't all of a sudden gonna learn how to play defense since arriving upon these shores, you either like playing defense or you don't. Booth is at a complete lost defensively.


I wouldn't say he's at a complete loss defensively, but he certainly isn't going to earn any Selke nominations any time soon. He is average in his own end for a winger, and I give him the benefit of the doubt when considering what team it was he just came from.

His stick handling is shitty, bottom-line. He is OK if given the room in the neutral zone by the D playing back a little, but when the real estate gets tight for ol' Booth there, the puck is like hot potato, he simply cannot dangle the puck on the string in tight spots, it's almost embarrasing to watch, it doesn't help matters that he has to put his head down to watch the puck cause of his ill-stick handling which might explain why he can't play the cycle, can't find teamates cause well, he doesn't know where they are.


He does have to put his head down a bit too much, and that type of play earned him a seat on the injured reserve in Florida a couple of seasons ago. He is above average at making power moves to the slot while protecting the puck, and he is above average at dragging the puck around average defenders. He is unlikely to burn Lidstrom, Keith, or Weber, any time soon with a toe drag, but he is quite good at muscling the puck towards the net. If he can get the puck to settle down even a little bit more so that he can get a shot off, well that will pay dividends. We really only have 3 guys on our team who don't end up with a hot potatoe on their blade when in close quarters: Henrik, Daniel, and Hodgson. Most teams are lucky to have more than 3 guys who can put the puck on a string in tight and dance through the defense without it looking like a raquet ball.


I see we are going through it again with Booth as we once did with Ballard. With Ballard some people were sold a bill of goods claming that what we getting with Ballard is Brian Leetch-Little, Little Jovo. So not true, we got a contract that didn't match the product and the same goes for Booth. So, put all your Bill Guerin comparisons aside folks, Booth ain't all that.


Well, with Ballard we did get a "Little Jovo" and a "Brian Leetch-Little". Unfortunately we got the junior version at nearly the senior version's price. Ballard can play, he can play well. He has wheels, throws a wicked hip-check, has a decent shot, can rush the puck, turns it over at bad times (un-Leetch-like, but very Jovo-like), hustles back hard, plays with an emotional edge and is willing to tilt with opponent's medium weights and the odd light-heavy. At $4.2M that is steep, but at $3.0M-$3.5M we wouldn't be fussing nearly as much.

Booth is more than a one weapon show. He has speed. He is strong on the puck (particularly on the forehand). He goes to the net (with or without the puck). He has a pretty good shot. He's not afraid of contact (despite a previous concussion). His passing is actually decent.....when he passes. Booth's downside on offense is that he doesn't see the ice overly well when he gets the puck, but he's a power-forward whose job it is to go to the net, with or without the puck, he does this well. His downside on defense is that he doesn't standout like Kesler, Burrows, and Hansen do. However, his line rarely has to back-check because they force the play deep and often force a faceoff. They rarely get hemmed in the defenisve end because they have speed and decent size to control the puck once they turn it over. Booth will actually start to look better if/when Kesler starts to be a less selfish centerman.

The biggest defensive liability on this team is our first line. While Burrows is excellent, the Sedins are terrible when the other team gets the puck. They don't have the instant foot-speed to breakout off of a turnover that they create along the boards, and they aren't strong along the defensive boards. Nearly every time the other team gets the puck while the Sedins are on the ice, we watch a 2 minute shift take place in our end that results in either an icing or our goaltender freezing it for a faceoff. Fortunately for us we have 3 lines that are more than capable of controlling the puck and keeping the play at the other end of the ice.
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