International Politics & Stuff

The primary goal of this site is to provide mature, meaningful discussion about the Vancouver Canucks. However, we all need a break some time so this forum is basically for anything off-topic, off the wall, or to just get something off your chest! This forum is named after poster Creeper, who passed away in July of 2011 and was a long time member of the Canucks message board community.

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International Politics & Stuff

Postby Per » Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:18 am

I have started three different threads that for reasons unknown to me got removed. :(

Not locked, mind you, but completely removed. No one has informed me of the reason why this happened, so I'm a bit puzzled. None of the threads were vulgar, explicit or anything like that. The common denominator, I guess, is that all three were about politics. The first was about whether anyone believed the recent Russian elections were fair and free. The second was about China, being a bit peeved about the Nobel Peace Prize having been awarded to Dalai Lama and Liu Xiaobo and thus creating their own Confucius Peace Prize, and then awarding it to Putin. Hilarious! :lol:
The third was linking to an English article on innocent people locked up at Gitmo.

Now, I've been reading the rules thoroughly, because I like this place and I do not wish to break the rules:
Brian CC wrote:Here are the rules of this forum. The aren't hard to follow and I would hope you would respect them. If you can't you will have to find another place to hang out. Who put me in charge? I did :)

1. Please respect other posters. This forum is intended as a place to build friendships, Personal attacks will not be tolerated. This site is a hobby and people who make it a pain in the butt to run or any users who continually start squabbles and garner complaints will be punted from the forum.

2. Please remember that fans of all ages visit these forums. While I believe in free speech, excessive vulgarity will not be tolertated. Nor will racial slurs, sexually explicit content or threats made to any member of this site.

3. No sig file pictures. Why? They take up bandwidth, and for people with slower connections it slows down the site. Not to mention there are some damn gaudy ones out there.

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It's not rocket science folks, this place is meant for the enjoyment of mature Canucks fans. If you can't play nice, you won't be playing here at all.


In none of the three threads did I violate any of the rules.

Perhaps a matter of wrong content in the wrong place?
Let's look at the description of Creeper's Bar & Grill:
this forum is basically for anything off-topic, off the wall, or to just get something off your chest!


OK, so if I want to get something off my chest, like eg a frustration that Russia may be moving back toward totalitarianism, this would be the place, right? :?

Well, that's what I figured.

So here goes another attempt. If there is a rule against discussing politics or foreign affairs, please let me know.
As long as no one has sent me a message saying so, and as long as there is no rule specifically stating so, I will go on trying, since international politics is an interest of mine, and I frequently want to get things relating to this "off my chest".

This time I thought I'd start a generic one, sort of like an OOTS thread, and so people can write about pretty much any international affairs they feel like here. OK? OK.
Last edited by Per on Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: International Politics & Stuff

Postby Arachnid » Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:00 am

No comment :sly:
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Re: International Politics & Stuff

Postby Sick Bunny » Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:58 am

Per wrote:The first was about whether anyone believed the recent Russian elections were fair and free.

And that is what brought the matter to our attention, comrade. Your other threads were just collateral damage. 8-)
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Re: International Politics & Stuff

Postby Per » Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:02 am

Since my criticism against China and Russia resulted in deleted threads I'll try a different topic this time:

I'm starting to be concerned about the direction France is taking.

In 2004 they banned the wearing of religious symbols in public schools. Supposedly to stress that schools in France are secular. The law was worded to be universal in nature, banning not only Muslim heads carves, but also Jewish kippahs, Sikh turbans and even openly worn crucifixes, but everyone knew it was directed against the use of head scarves.
http://www.hrw.org/news/2004/02/26/fran ... us-freedom

In 2010 they voted to ban the wearing of niqabs and burkas in public. Once again the wording was "generic", but the only people wearing face covering veils (that I know of) are of course Muslim women, so it was once again a jab at the Muslim minority in France. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10611398

France has normally been a country with liberal values, ever since the revolution in 1789 under the slogan liberté, egalité et fraternité. So why are they doing this?

My best guess is that they are pandering to the xenophobic tendensies in the population, an attempt by the established parties to win back those that have voted for the extreme right wing Nationalist Party. You think that a guy like Sarkozy, who is himself part Hungarian, part Jewish, would stand up for minority rights, but apparently not.

And now this; the French senate yesterday passed a law making it illegal to deny the Armenian genocide performed by the Turks a century ago. I find this absurdly stupid.
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/01/23/world ... index.html

I do not question that there was a genocide. And I find those who deny it stupid.
But by making it illegal to say so... I find it a gross violation of the principles of free speech.

The sky is blue. I would find it stupid to argue that it is green. But I do not think we should make it illegal!

(OK, technically, the sky does not really have a colour, but the way the sun light is diffracted through the atmosphere makes it appear blue to us. It definitely isn't green.)

I mean, what's the deal here?

Why does the French Senate even hold a vote on whether or not what took place in 1915 in the Ottoman Empire between ethnic Turks and ethnic Armenians consitutes genocide or not? I have not heard them do the same about the forcible removal of Cherokees from the Carolinas, aka the Trail of Tears, nor regarding the treatment of Aborigenes in Australia or what Belgium did in Congo.

To me it can only be posturing that is meant to attract islamophobic voters. Showing the public that "we're tough on Islam".

It's even more deplorable as it is going to sour relations between the European Union and Turkey at a point in time when I find it paramount that we try to tie Turkey closer to Europe and European values. Not taunt them and make them furious.

A Turkey firmly connected to the European Union, through membership or some special status agreement, would be really helpful in helping transform the countries of Northern Africa, that have been revolting against authoritarian rule, into steady and reliable modern democracies.

I would find this a more worthwile exercise than making it illegal to discuss what went down in the Ottoman Empire as it crumbled during WWI.
Last edited by Per on Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: International Politics & Stuff

Postby ukcanuck » Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:10 am

Per wrote:Since my criticism against China and Russia resulted in deleted threads I'll try a different topic this time:

I'm starting to be concerned about the direction France is taking.



what are authorities supposed to do when a burka wearing woman wants a driving lisence or passport?
how does the cop know thats actually who she says she is?
and if I have to take off my motorcycle helmet to pump petrol so the camera can record my face... why should aiquisha get away with her anonymity but not me?
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Re: International Politics & Stuff

Postby Per » Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:36 am

For the first time in thirty years, the tenant of Finland's presidential palace will not be a social democrat.

In the presidential elections that were held in Finland this weekend, no candidate reached the required 50%, and thus there will be a second round on Feb 5th, where only the two front runners of the first round are allowed to participate. The Social Democratic candidate, Paavo Lipponen, came in fifth, with a mere 6.7% of the popular vote. Ahead of him were Sauli Niinistö of the National Coalition Party (conservative) with 37.0%, Pekka Haavisto (Green League) 18.8%, Paavo Väyrynen (Centre Party) 17.5% and Timo Soini (True Finns - and yes, they are right wing xenophobes :evil: ) with 9.4%. Of the remaining three candidates, Paavo Ahrinmäki (Left Alliance) recieved 5.5%, Eva Biaudet (Swedish People's Party) 2.7% and Sari Essayah (Christian Democrats) 2.5%.

Thus the second leg will be a showdown between a conservative and a green politician!

Both are positive to the European Union, which says that the notion that the Finns should be eurosceptics may be mistaken, but other than that I guess their opinions differ quite a bit...

To make things even more interesting, Haavisto is openly homosexual and lives in a registered partnership with Antonio Flores, who hails from Ecaudor, and whom he met in Colombia whilst backpacking through South America! :mex:

All the President's men could get a whole new connotation in Finland! :look:



Although Niinistö is of course the favourite, it is really hard to tell how the votes will fall in the second leg.

My guess is that the socialist voters (Social Democrats and Left Alliance) will almost certainly back Haavisto, which would bring him up to 31%.
The Christian Democrats will almost certainly go with the conservative candidate Niinistö. Brings him up to 39.5%.
Swedish People's Party? Hm... they tend to be well to do, but also fairly liberal... probably a split.

Remains the Centre Partry and the True Finns.

Rather surprisingly, the True Finn candidate, Soini, has endorsed Haavisto! :shock:
Odd, but perhaps Niinistö is seen as even more EU-oriented than the Green Leaguer...
Remains to be seen if the fascistoid xenophobes really can rally behind a homosexual environmentalist living with a South American man... :|

And the Centre Party. This party attracts mainly rural people. They tend to be fairly conservative, but may also be interested in th emore decentralised society the Green League envisions.
Hard to say. If it's an even split, that's all Niinistö needs to be declared the winner. Thus Haavisto needs to convince them that he is their man.

And wouldn't it be great if Finland replaced their current socialist single mother with president with an openly homosexual environmentalist?

I mean, not only because it sends a strong message of tolerance and open mindedness; think of the taunting possibilities at the next Hockey World Championship! :mrgreen:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pekka_Haavisto

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sauli_Niinist%C3%B6
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Re: International Politics & Stuff

Postby Per » Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:52 am

ukcanuck wrote:
Per wrote:Since my criticism against China and Russia resulted in deleted threads I'll try a different topic this time:

I'm starting to be concerned about the direction France is taking.



what are authorities supposed to do when a burka wearing woman wants a driving lisence or passport?
how does the cop know thats actually who she says she is?
and if I have to take off my motorcycle helmet to pump petrol so the camera can record my face... why should aiquisha get away with her anonymity but not me?

No argument there.

I would not mind a law banning the wearing of face covering veils while operating a motorised vehicle.

I also see it as obvious that the face must not be covered on the photo of an identity card or a passport. I even think banks, convinience stores, etc, perhaps your example of a gas station, could have a right to deny entry to those who cover their face, for security reasons. And if a police officer asks you to identify yourself, clearly you must agree to remove the veil in order to do so.

I even think niqabs and burkas should be banned in the class room, because how can a teacher be expected to grade students when he/she doesn't even know for sure that they are who they say they are? Hijabs and kippahs (aka yarmulkes) are fine in my opinion though. I don't really see how they would interfer with the education.*

But a complete ban on wearing a certain piece of clothing in public? Get real!
That, imho, is a flagrant example of government being too involved in the minute details of their citizens lives.

*Sure, I wouldn't want my kids to set themselves up as prime objects for bullying like that, but if you truly believe that your god-of-choice will smite you, or condemn you to hell, if you don't wear a specific type of silly head gear, fine. Who am I to say that you are mistaken? :eh:
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Re: International Politics & Stuff

Postby Cornuck » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:15 am

The second was about China, being a bit peeved about the Nobel Peace Prize having been awarded to Dalai Lama and Liu Xiaobo and thus creating their own Confucius Peace Prize, and then awarding it to Putin. Hilarious!


Is it any more (or less) hilarious than when Obama won the Peace Prize? :?
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Re: International Politics & Stuff

Postby damonberryman » Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:31 am

Cornuck wrote:
The second was about China, being a bit peeved about the Nobel Peace Prize having been awarded to Dalai Lama and Liu Xiaobo and thus creating their own Confucius Peace Prize, and then awarding it to Putin. Hilarious!


Is it any more (or less) hilarious than when Obama won the Peace Prize? :?

You ask some good questions though I suspect you certainly know the answer to the one about Russia. Were the elections legit? It is Russia. What do you mean by the question? I think you live in Sweden so you may well have done some travelling in the old USSR. I used to but from the Southern end such as Tashkent and if there is a country where the civil authorities are more corrupt I am unaware of the place. I agree with Cornruck about Obama being awarded the prize. At least as funny as Confucious prize. I just posted a political rant on the Tim Thomas/White House thing and overall I guess, even though I did it, I prefer this site to remain about hockey and related topics. Even though my rant was political it does have something to do with the game. Not much I grant you. There are so many political sites on the web I guess I can understand why the moderators might react to threads only about politics. I do not mind personally but the old rule of never bringing up politics and religion in unknown company might apply. I enjoy your posts and I am sure you will continue. BTW? Are Swedes generally not predjudice to Finns? Not implying you are but usually is that not the case? Used to go out with a Finn and she told me. How many Finnish women are named Gunn by the way?
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Re: International Politics & Stuff

Postby Per » Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:14 pm

Cornuck wrote:
The second was about China, being a bit peeved about the Nobel Peace Prize having been awarded to Dalai Lama and Liu Xiaobo and thus creating their own Confucius Peace Prize, and then awarding it to Putin. Hilarious!


Is it any more (or less) hilarious than when Obama won the Peace Prize? :?

More, I'd say.

Obama's prize was a bit like awarding Calder to a promising rookie before the season has started. :eh:
It was entirely based on expectations.

Putin's was a bit like awarding Lady Byng to Brad Marchand after game seven of the 2011 SCF... :roll:
It truly went against common sense and a proven track record.
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Re: International Politics & Stuff

Postby Per » Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:02 pm

damonberryman wrote:You ask some good questions though I suspect you certainly know the answer to the one about Russia. Were the elections legit? It is Russia. What do you mean by the question? I think you live in Sweden so you may well have done some travelling in the old USSR. I used to but from the Southern end such as Tashkent and if there is a country where the civil authorities are more corrupt I am unaware of the place. I agree with Cornruck about Obama being awarded the prize. At least as funny as Confucious prize. I just posted a political rant on the Tim Thomas/White House thing and overall I guess, even though I did it, I prefer this site to remain about hockey and related topics. Even though my rant was political it does have something to do with the game. Not much I grant you. There are so many political sites on the web I guess I can understand why the moderators might react to threads only about politics. I do not mind personally but the old rule of never bringing up politics and religion in unknown company might apply. I enjoy your posts and I am sure you will continue. BTW? Are Swedes generally not predjudice to Finns? Not implying you are but usually is that not the case? Used to go out with a Finn and she told me. How many Finnish women are named Gunn by the way?

I've been to the old Soviet Union. I use to say that I've been to Leningrad, but not to St Petersburg. My last visit to Moscow was during Gorbachev, so it's been a while.

Are Swedes generally prejudiced against Finns? Perhaps to some extent but not worse than Americans (US) against Canadians. There are some stereotypes, but not really any bad blood. The Finns have more of a problem, I think. Finland was part of Sweden from medieval days till 1809, then part of Russia till 1917. They're a young nation and sort of see as us their bullying big brother. That's why they always give 110% when playing us in hockey. It's a hate-love relationship from their side. Not as dramatic from our viewpoint. My wife's Finnish, btw, and our kids have dual citizenships.

Less than 164 Finnish women have been named Gunn between 1899 and 2011. Most of them (110) born between 1949 and 1959. Only 8 between 1960 and 1969, and for the entire period after "less than 5". There are however some 1200 named Gun, which is the more common spelling of the name. http://verkkopalvelu.vrk.fi/Nimipalvelu/default.asp?L=2
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Re: International Politics & Stuff

Postby Per » Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:59 am

Scottish bid for independence, referendum in 2014:
http://www.economist.com/node/21543531

Thoughts?
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Re: International Politics & Stuff

Postby Jovorock » Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:20 am

Per wrote:I have started three different threads that for reasons unknown to me got removed. :(


And I probly removed all three, this is a hockey board. This is another political who cares post started by you?

In future I will PM you when I delete your post.
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Re: International Politics & Stuff

Postby Sick Bunny » Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:52 am

Jovorock wrote:who cares post started by you?


13 responses say otherwise. That may not be a lot, but as of this moment, that's more than "Tim Thomas", "Wish me luck tonight!", "This could be the greatest thing that I have ever seen in my", "Brad Marchand", "Yo Mac nerds! iPhone supremacists!", "What is your favorite type of Bird?", and, most notably, "What is your most impressive body part?". Only two or three of these, at best, have anything to do with hockey. None got purged.

The description says "this forum is basically for anything off-topic, off the wall, or to just get something off your chest!". Or was the forum renamed to "Jovorock's Bar & Grill" when no-one was looking?
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Re: International Politics & Stuff

Postby ukcanuck » Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:11 pm

Jovorock wrote:
Per wrote:I have started three different threads that for reasons unknown to me got removed. :(


And I probly removed all three, this is a hockey board. This is another political who cares post started by you?

In future I will PM you when I delete your post.


wow Jovorock that seems really flippant. I remember the posts in question and I responded to the one about China. The irony here is that your deleting posts because its not related to hockey as far as you can tell and that your not interested in brings us all closer to the censorship we have sent our own blood to fight against around the world.

Per has been an honourable and relevant poster here and his posts have always been worth the read. This board is better for his input :D
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