Could a "bottom up" approach version of Socialism work?

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Could a "bottom up" approach version of Socialism work?

Postby Farhan Lalji » Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:12 am

Could a "bottom up" approach version of Socialism work?

This has been on my mind for quite sometime and so I thought I'd ask. Please keep in mind that I don't know very much about politics, etc., and so this post might sound quite "elementary" or even stupid. Anyway - here goes.

One thing I like about Socialism, or atleast the idea of socialism, is that everyone works together in accordance to serve the greater good. If I understand correctly, this "working together" and "serving the greater good" mentality often comes in the form of higher taxes so that the Governing power can redistribute that tax money to where it sees fit. Wealth distribution amongst different income levels is also a staple of this idea.

However - one major problem with Socialism...and Communism....is that the Governing body (or Government) often becomes way too big.....which leads to mismanagement.......which then leads to ineffective problem solving at a local level. Perhaps an analogy can be made to a Corporation where the 'Executive level' becomes way too big and disattached to its frontline staff, which results in problems within the frontline staff taking forever to be addressed (hope that made sense, but it probably didn't, lol). One way that businesses counter this is to take what's called the "bottom up" approach (i.e. front line staff, mid level managers, etc. being far more empowered to make decisions, input ideas, and take on more responsibilities). Studies have found that a large majority of the most successful corporations in the world implement the "bottom up" approach.

So - how does that relate to politics? My line of thinking was this: What if the "bottom up" approach was used in Socialism? So basically - keep almost everything the exact same way as Socialism would operate, but instead of having "big government", give far more power to the local governing bodies.

In other words - Districts, Municipalities, Counties, City Hall, etc., etc. would be given TREMENDOUS amounts of power. Very limited Federal tax, very limited State/Provincial tax, substantially high LOCAL tax....to your local governing District/Municipality/county, whatever.

So - if you lived in a particular District, 90% of your tax would go to the district that you live in.

There would be some kind of 'steep' Graduated tax level in place.
Your salary would be based on some kind of mathematical formula based on your profession, your work experience, your education level, and your performance (your superior would rate you somehow and this would be factored in to the mathematical formula). Everyone would have job. Everyone would simply be 'plugged into the system' based on this objective mathematical formula. The idea and concept of giving oral services on the side for extra cash would be an after thought. Unemployment simply would not exist.

Long story short - I'm just wondering if some extreme "leftist" idealogy could ever work provided that there would be a FAR FAR FAR greater emphasis on localized governments and localized entities running things. No big Governments. Just a whole bunch of 'districts', 'municipalities', and 'counties' all taking care of its own people and working together to serve the greater good. This emphasis on districts, municipalities, counties, etc. would ensure that all problems would be taken care of and addressed in record time.

I don't know if any of this made sense, but I hope it did! And if it didn't...........hey.......it's 2:12 AM and I can't sleep.

Cheers.
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Re: Could a "bottom up" approach version of Socialism work?

Postby RoyalDude » Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:21 am

Reading this just made me feel sorry for the 'Private' worker who are the sources of revenue for the massive government we have here in Canada. The Country that has the most Government Employees per Capita in the world. If I had advice for the up coming youth on where the work is in this Country, it would be this - Government. Great Benefits, Great Pension,great hourly wage, paid holidays and sick days, zero responsibility. Just show up, sit there for 7.5 hours, two half-hour breaks, make jokes laugh, drink coffee all day then go home.
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Re: Could a "bottom up" approach version of Socialism work?

Postby rats19 » Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:32 am

Then the pension....if a voted mwmber..after 8 yrs.70 or80%.. not sure but thats retardedly stupid.
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Re: Could a "bottom up" approach version of Socialism work?

Postby Island Nucklehead » Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:50 am

A few other concerns might be how to fund a military, how to operate and conclude international binding agreements, trade etc. if the Federal Government is slashed.

Alberta would love your system Farhan, take the oil, screw everyone else.


RoyalDude wrote:Reading this just made me feel sorry for the 'Private' worker who are the sources of revenue for the massive government we have here in Canada. The Country that has the most Government Employees per Capita in the world. If I had advice for the up coming youth on where the work is in this Country, it would be this - Government.


If I'm not mistaken, Scandanavian countries like Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Finland all have percentages of public employment than Canada.
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Re: Could a "bottom up" approach version of Socialism work?

Postby Cornuck » Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:58 am

Sounds like a Feudal system to me. The people running the local, small government would become greedy and corrupt. Make the average Joe into their slave. They'd get rich and start 'managing' other weaker groups nearby.

Greed will ruin any system of government.
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Re: Could a "bottom up" approach version of Socialism work?

Postby Listercat » Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:04 am

Enslaving the best and brightest will NEVER result in the results "Socialism" purports to aspire to.
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Re: Could a "bottom up" approach version of Socialism work?

Postby Potatoe1 » Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:34 am

RoyalDude wrote:Reading this just made me feel sorry for the 'Private' worker who are the sources of revenue for the massive government we have here in Canada. The Country that has the most Government Employees per Capita in the world. If I had advice for the up coming youth on where the work is in this Country, it would be this - Government. Great Benefits, Great Pension,great hourly wage, paid holidays and sick days, zero responsibility. Just show up, sit there for 7.5 hours, two half-hour breaks, make jokes laugh, drink coffee all day then go home.



When ever I ask my dad about his time working for the government he says "2 years, 3 months, and 17 days".

Working for the government may sound great, but it's also boring, unrewarding, and frustrating work.

I guess if you are the type of person who views their job as some type of jail sentence then I guess it's ok, but I honestly feel bad for anyone in that situation no matter how nice the perks are.
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Re: Could a "bottom up" approach version of Socialism work?

Postby RoyalDude » Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:47 am

The pendulum has swung to far to the left (socialism) in this country and can't come back its that lopsided. The tax burden on the private workers and businesses who pretty much pay these salaries will only get worse now cause it's a system where decisions in introducing more taxes, more taxes and more taxes are all self-serving, all in the name of preserving jobs in Government.

Agree with Cornucks take.
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Re: Could a "bottom up" approach version of Socialism work?

Postby Cornuck » Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:54 am

RoyalDude wrote:The pendulum has swung to far to the left (socialism) in this country and can't come back its that lopsided. The tax burden on the private workers and businesses who pretty much pay these salaries will only get worse now cause it's a system where decisions in introducing more taxes, more taxes and more taxes are all self-serving, all in the name of preserving jobs in Government.


Down here in the States, the pendulum has swung to far to the right (capitalism) in this country and can't come back, it's that lopsided. The tax burden on the private workers and (small) businesses who pretty much pay these salaries will only get worse now cause it's a system where decisions in introducing more taxes, more taxes and more taxes are all self-serving, all in the name of preserving jobs in Government and endless war.
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Re: Could a "bottom up" approach version of Socialism work?

Postby Potatoe1 » Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:12 pm

Cornuck wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:The pendulum has swung to far to the left (socialism) in this country and can't come back its that lopsided. The tax burden on the private workers and businesses who pretty much pay these salaries will only get worse now cause it's a system where decisions in introducing more taxes, more taxes and more taxes are all self-serving, all in the name of preserving jobs in Government.


Down here in the States, the pendulum has swung to far to the right (capitalism) in this country and can't come back, it's that lopsided. The tax burden on the private workers and (small) businesses who pretty much pay these salaries will only get worse now cause it's a system where decisions in introducing more taxes, more taxes and more taxes are all self-serving, all in the name of preserving jobs in Government and endless war.


You guys seem to be losing your shit down there.

The GOP debates are like a 3 ring circus. Just about everyone at the table is a creationist, homophobe who wants to abolish abortion and have little kids replace the Janitors in their schools because their parents are broke.

The Candidates who come off as "sane" struggle in the polls because apparently they aren't "conservative enough".

The difference between these clowns and John McCain is massive and a testament to how radically the country has changed in 4 years.
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Re: Could a "bottom up" approach version of Socialism work?

Postby Cornuck » Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:38 pm

Potatoe1 wrote:You guys seem to be losing your shit down there.


Agreed. The 2 party system is a complete failure. Fear of "socialism" is huge down here, but healthcare is such a disgrace there doesn't seem to be another option.

The worst part is how the agenda down here seeps across the northern border.
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Re: Could a "bottom up" approach version of Socialism work?

Postby RoyalDude » Sun Jan 15, 2012 1:48 pm

Cornuck wrote:
Potatoe1 wrote:You guys seem to be losing your shit down there.


Agreed. The 2 party system is a complete failure. Fear of "socialism" is huge down here, but healthcare is such a disgrace there doesn't seem to be another option.

The worst part is how the agenda down here seeps across the northern border.


Hey Cornuck, don't compare me to some sort of tea-bagger. I hate Far Right as much as I hate Far Left. Somewhere in the middle seems to be common sense ground, but there ain't no common sense when it comes to Governing. That being said, the far left in Canada is much more preferable and seemingly workable than what the far right in the States have in mind.
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Re: Could a "bottom up" approach version of Socialism work?

Postby RoyalDude » Sun Jan 15, 2012 1:53 pm

Cornuck wrote: Fear of "socialism" is huge down here, but healthcare is such a disgrace there doesn't seem to be another option.


It amazes me how much MacCarthy-ism still exists down there, in its subtle way.
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Re: Could a "bottom up" approach version of Socialism work?

Postby Farhan Lalji » Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:31 pm

Potatoe1 wrote:
I guess if you are the type of person who views their job as some type of jail sentence then I guess it's ok, but I honestly feel bad for anyone in that situation no matter how nice the perks are.


This.

Couldn't agree more.

One thing I strongly dislike about Government jobs is that it's all about "Seniority." There's seemingly no way to prove that you're "better" than someone so that you can command a higher salary and/or commissions.
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Re: Could a "bottom up" approach version of Socialism work?

Postby Cornuck » Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:22 pm

RoyalDude wrote:Hey Cornuck, don't compare me to some sort of tea-bagger. I hate Far Right as much as I hate Far Left.....


Woah! Where did I compare you to anything or anyone? I was just making an observation that in Canada a lot things are swinging to the left (but the little I of Harper that could be changing) but down south here, the discussion has gone so far right that I can't see it.

Heh heh - you said "Teabagger" :D
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