GDT: Canucks @ Blues 5pm PST

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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Blues 5pm PST

Postby damonberryman » Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:33 am

Right now AV is coaching the top team in the NHL. He has to be doing something right. I never understood the Ballard trade as I liked Grabs just fine. We do need some help on the back end but tanev is waiting. Interesting year and I am proud of this team. They show incredible resilience and guts. Sulzer has impressed me more than most of you apparently. He seems like a responsible D who will play to the system. What coach does not like that?
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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Blues 5pm PST

Postby RoyalDude » Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:24 am

damonberryman wrote:Right now AV is coaching the top team in the NHL. He has to be doing something right. I never understood the Ballard trade as I liked Grabs just fine. We do need some help on the back end but tanev is waiting. Interesting year and I am proud of this team. They show incredible resilience and guts. Sulzer has impressed me more than most of you apparently. He seems like a responsible D who will play to the system. What coach does not like that?


The Ballard trade was bad from the momment it was announced. Lets chalk it up as a rookie GM mistake on Gillis' part. There is a bit of a protectionism around here regarding some of the posters and their feelings for Ballard, they are still holding out hope that he will become the Brian Leetch-lite like they all had drooled about the momment the trade was made. Regarding Ballard, I get lambasted around these boards from the exact same peeps the same way I did when I was calling out Steve Bernier as being a complete and total farce, ie Stonehands, zero hockey intelligence Bernier. Where is he now? This isn't about Grabner, I could care less about him now, even though he got the game winner last night and an empty netter giving him 13 goals on the year. I just think it's best for all parties that Ballard finds a new home. He is not a fit here.
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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Blues 5pm PST

Postby Aaronp18 » Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:33 am

damonberryman wrote:Right now AV is coaching the top team in the NHL. He has to be doing something right. I never understood the Ballard trade as I liked Grabs just fine. ?


It pretty easy to understand the Ballard trade if you ignore any personal like or dislike for the players involved.

We needed defensive depth (hell we still need it) and Gillis' MO is to get well rounded players that with a little TLC can either regain their game or thrive in Vancouver. He turfed a player that wasn't going anywhere in Bernier and a prospect that, dispite his offensive flair, didn't look to fit the mold of the team.

I liked Grabner as well but can anyone honestly say they could see him picking up his game and helping this team in a more physical tighter checking playoff series?

Ballard hasn't been what I or likely Gillis thought he would be but I can see why he made that deal. I still like Ballard to a certain extent but not at his current salary, so if salary needs to go the other way in a trade to better the team Ballard is the man to go.
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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Blues 5pm PST

Postby RoyalDude » Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:40 am

Aaronp18 wrote:
damonberryman wrote:Right now AV is coaching the top team in the NHL. He has to be doing something right. I never understood the Ballard trade as I liked Grabs just fine. ?


It pretty easy to understand the Ballard trade if you ignore any personal like or dislike for the players involved.

We needed defensive depth (hell we still need it) and Gillis' MO is to get well rounded players that with a little TLC can either regain their game or thrive in Vancouver. He turfed a player that wasn't going anywhere in Bernier and a prospect that, dispite his offensive flair, didn't look to fit the mold of the team.

I liked Grabner as well but can anyone honestly say they could see him picking up his game and helping this team in a more physical tighter checking playoff series?

Ballard hasn't been what I or likely Gillis thought he would be but I can see why he made that deal. I still like Ballard to a certain extent but not at his current salary, so if salary needs to go the other way in a trade to better the team Ballard is the man to go.


Good post, Aaron. I agree.
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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Blues 5pm PST

Postby Potatoe1 » Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:58 am

Aaronp18 wrote:
damonberryman wrote:Right now AV is coaching the top team in the NHL. He has to be doing something right. I never understood the Ballard trade as I liked Grabs just fine. ?


It pretty easy to understand the Ballard trade if you ignore any personal like or dislike for the players involved.

We needed defensive depth (hell we still need it) and Gillis' MO is to get well rounded players that with a little TLC can either regain their game or thrive in Vancouver. He turfed a player that wasn't going anywhere in Bernier and a prospect that, dispite his offensive flair, didn't look to fit the mold of the team.

I liked Grabner as well but can anyone honestly say they could see him picking up his game and helping this team in a more physical tighter checking playoff series?

Ballard hasn't been what I or likely Gillis thought he would be but I can see why he made that deal. I still like Ballard to a certain extent but not at his current salary, so if salary needs to go the other way in a trade to better the team Ballard is the man to go.


The failure of the Ballard trade is on the pro scouts.

It made perfect sense from a team building perspective, the problem is that the player simply hasn't lived up to expectations.

I would trade Grabner and a first for a quality top4 defenseman anytime, the problem is that Ballard does not appear to be that player anymore.
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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Blues 5pm PST

Postby Cornuck » Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:01 pm

IMO, Ballard should be getting more time, if only to showcase him and raise his value. He's been the odd man out since Hamhuis was signed.

Ballard was probably scheduled to be our big defense acquisition, but then Gillis landed Hamhuis (remember how excited we were to have two top D-men coming our way?) and for some reason, Ballard fell out of favor, had some injuries, and ended up #6-7.

Has they had chances to become truly comfortable in Vancouver? I'd love to see him stick, but I think that a change of scenery will help him a lot.
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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Blues 5pm PST

Postby Madcombinepilot » Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:05 pm

no knock against Ballard, its simply his style of play and AV's system dont match. it happens.

Ballard wants to stay for another year as this is his best chance to win a cup. Who would want to leave this team right now??
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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Blues 5pm PST

Postby damonberryman » Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:16 pm

Cornuck wrote:IMO, Ballard should be getting more time, if only to showcase him and raise his value. He's been the odd man out since Hamhuis was signed.

Ballard was probably scheduled to be our big defense acquisition, but then Gillis landed Hamhuis (remember how excited we were to have two top D-men coming our way?) and for some reason, Ballard fell out of favor, had some injuries, and ended up #6-7.

Has they had chances to become truly comfortable in Vancouver? I'd love to see him stick, but I think that a change of scenery will help him a lot.

This is something I also would like to see, and that is Ballard getting a fair shot. I was unaware when playing for Florida that he was seen as a top four and in that light the trade makes some sense, but surely top four on Florida is not something to emulate? After watching AV I am convinced he is a true systems coach and if I had to guess as to why Ballard is not getting more minutes it would be due to his not following coaching directions as laid out. AV uses ice time as a carrot and stick which I think is bang on but Ballard may not be the fit here they had hoped for. Certainly he goes to the net but does he ever put one in? Not to any great shakes. I love his fiesty play and his hip check but he seems to get out of position a lot and that will not make AV happy. We do need some toughness back there no doubt. As things currently stand we can beat Boston in one game, maybe two out of three, but a 7 game series will have to played in the ER.
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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Blues 5pm PST

Postby Fred » Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:28 pm

As things currently stand we can beat Boston in one game, maybe two out of three, but a 7 game series will have to played in the ER.


Poster will act surprised with the what if we hadn't suffered injuries we'd be better etc etc, the fact is we're a fragile undersized team. When we start calling Booth a power forward you know we're in trouble.....Lucic is a power forward
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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Blues 5pm PST

Postby Uncle dans leg » Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:32 pm

I have to agree regarding Ballard. When he was in Phoenix he was a much better player and I think we all thought he could regain the form he obviously has lost. 4.3/year is a real boat anchor and if Gillis can unload it I hope he's gone.
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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Blues 5pm PST

Postby Potatoe1 » Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:36 pm

damonberryman wrote:
Cornuck wrote:IMO, Ballard should be getting more time, if only to showcase him and raise his value. He's been the odd man out since Hamhuis was signed.

Ballard was probably scheduled to be our big defense acquisition, but then Gillis landed Hamhuis (remember how excited we were to have two top D-men coming our way?) and for some reason, Ballard fell out of favor, had some injuries, and ended up #6-7.


I don't really buy this.

Bieksa is not exactly a good "systems player" and AV loves him.

My feeling is that the Coaching staff isn't thrilled with Ballards commitment level both on and off the ice. He had conditioning problems most of last season, swore he would get in better shape over the summer but I'm not sure that happened.

I think Keith signed his big contract and is just kind of going through to motions for the most part.

I remember him when he was in Phoenix and his battle level and intensity just seemed much higher. He's always been small but he was a tough little nut before and was no fun to play against. Now, other then the odd hip check, he plays it pretty soft and often looks over matched in puck battles.
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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Blues 5pm PST

Postby Cornuck » Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:45 pm

Potatoe1 wrote:My feeling is that the Coaching staff isn't thrilled with Ballard's commitment level both on and off the ice. He had conditioning problems most of last season, swore he would get in better shape over the summer but I'm not sure that happened.


Ok - if the conditioning and commitment aren't there, then yeah - the guy needs to sit until that improves. I'm not up on that info, myself. It wouldn't be the first time a player signs a big contract and goes soft... cough <Bieksa> cough...
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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Blues 5pm PST

Postby Potatoe1 » Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:57 pm

Cornuck wrote: It wouldn't be the first time a player signs a big contract and goes soft... cough <Bieksa> cough...


Bieksa had a slow start but he's been fantastic for the past 35 or so games.

I think most were a bit quick to blame the new contract.

Ballards play in Florida went down hill right after his new deal and it's now been 2.5 years.

Big difference.
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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Blues 5pm PST

Postby LotusBlossom » Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:58 am

I was in St Louis for this game.
Image

I was thoroughly disappointed in the play of the Canucks, but also realized this way the last game before heading home. I did notice that many of the guys took longer breaks at the bench during warmup and they were clearly tired.

They managed a win in a game they didn't deserve the victory. The Blues were also without Steen and McDonald. This home-stand and fewer games will help rest up the boys.

No excuses but they took the important stat and that was the win.

As far as the Ballard decision came, from a friend in the organization, he was sat that night for size. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Blues 5pm PST

Postby Hockey Widow » Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:03 pm

The biggest difference between the Ballard we thought we were getting and the one we have is that he is asked to play his off side and he cannot do so as effectively as we need him to be able to. He is much more effective playing the other side, he can use his hip check more and seems to be in better position. Some guys can adjust more readily and it appears Ballard cannot do so as much as we need him to. The other downside for him is his size. If he was more effective it may not be a problem but as it is it sticks out as he for some reason is not as physical playing on the wrong side. So AV makes line up switches when he wants toughness. Unfortunately that means a combination of Rome Alberts Sulzer right now.

But if AV cannot use Ballard on his strong side and he continues to be the odd man out then no question his time here is up. I mean hell, game 7 and AV could not or would not trust him even though he had Rome out, Hamhuis out, Elder playing with 3 broken fingers and Ehrhoff playing with a dislocated shoulder. That speaks volumes as to AV's trust level in the guy and it has not changed this season. AV is the coach and I can't really find fault with the results he has achieved these last 3 seasons so the obvious answer is to find a new home for Ballard and use the cap space to bring in a defender that AV will utilize more.

Its too bad because I still think Ballard could be that smooth skating, good passer and point produce that would fit most teams. I'm not going to say he has beem mis used or hasn't gotten a fare shake, because he hasn't been mis used and he has gotten a fare shake. Hockey dictates that players play out of position often to help the team. If you can do that you are a keeper and if you cannot then you are a liability. Now I don't see Ballard as a liability and I do think he has a much shorter leash than any other D'man but that goes back to AV's trust level. And if he hasn't earned the trust of AV by now the chances are he won't.

And this has nothing to do with work ethic nor fitness level. From all reports he is an extremely hard worker, well liked and in great physical and mental shape. He has been described to me as the consummate team guy and great in the locker room. This is all about the coaches' decision. Plain and simple.
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