Is the Detroit model finished

[RoyalDude]

Shouldn't you be training for the Odlum Brown inviational Farhan ?? Or rubbing one out to that poster on your wall of the Williams sisters ?

Are you boozing at the Arms again on Coast Meridian is it? That blind dude who knows his way around the pub without his walker and all those cheeseburger eaters?

[Blob Mckenzie]

Liquid lunch at home watching the Football game Pac B. I avoid drinking hard at the Arms these days. About 18 months ago right before the big crackdown on drinking and driving I got a 24 hr from a big black cop . This prick sits in a ghost car like a fucking vulture and pops people stumbling out of the pub. With the new laws this prick is having a field day. Too funny when he nailed me and said he would be giving me a lift home, I said that I had to get my groceries and beer which were in the car from before going in the pub. I also grabbed my bag of weed and buddy gave me a ride home.

[Farhan Lalji]

Shouldn't you be training for the Odlum Brown inviational Farhan ?? Or rubbing one out to that poster on your wall of the Williams sisters ?

LOL.

I would Blob but I work like 70+ hours a week now. No time for tennis these days. For tennis standards, I'm a Grandpa now anyways (I'm 31) and so I'm not really interested in getting mangled by some kid in his early-mid 20's.

I might make a triumphant comeback in a few years though when I become eligible for the 'over 35' division.

p.s.________I was always a Kournikova and Hingis fan by the way. God - I wished they made out with each other just ONE time.

[RoyalDude]

Liquid lunch at home watching the Football game Pac B. I avoid drinking hard at the Arms these days. About 18 months ago right before the big crackdown on drinking and driving I got a 24 hr from a big black cop . This prick sits in a ghost car like a fucking vulture and pops people stumbling out of the pub. With the new laws this prick is having a field day. Too funny when he nailed me and said he would be giving me a lift home, I said that I had to get my groceries and beer which were in the car from before going in the pub. I also grabbed my bag of weed and buddy gave me a ride home.

Me too BlobbyCat, liquid lunch at home today with the family, a day or rest and relaxation after a hard week of work framing a house in your neck of the woods in Coquitlam, reeled in the week last night a local North Van pub, got the burning ring of fire from a massive plate of hot wings this morning. Today I finally finished off the Christmas Bailey's, topped off my coffee about an hour ago for a good base for Saturday casual boozing and now on to the beers. By the time I starting cooking, I should be feeling pretty good.

[Potatoe1]

Agreed.......but without a few tough guys (that can play), I'd argue that the Canucks are a bit intimidated by the Bruins. We will never intimidate a team like the Bruins, but we can bring in 1-2 guys that can prevent us from being intimidated by a team like them.

You think we looked the slightest bit intimidated games 1 and 2 last season?

I saw a non-figher in Hamhuis send Lucic ass over tea kettle with one of the better Hip checks in recent memory. I also saw Aaron Rome almost kill Nathan Horton.

Raffi Torrez was head hunting the whole series, Bieksa and Edler were hammering people until they were hurt.

The Canucks didn't look the slightest bit intimidated by Boston in that series nor did they the other night.

Agreed, but I also feel that the Canucks need to do a better job of standing up for its star players. We saw what happened last year when guys like Bolland and Marchand took liberties with the twins. Look at how the Bruins stood up for Nathan Horton....

What did the Bruins do when Rome hit Horton?

I saw a bunch of Black sweaters skate around then head for the bench.

Perhaps there was a reason why no one fought us........perhaps they knew that if they DID mess with us, they would be held accountable.

Perhaps they didn't fight us for the same reason that almost no one ever fights in the playoffs.

It just isn't relevant to the outcome of the game or series.

Canucks, at its core, isn't a team that is designed to bully.....but adding 1 or 2 more tough guys will help us stand up better to those teams that do that to us in the playoffs.

I consider this to be a myth.

The sedins will take a gloved punch in the face to go on the power play any day of the week. Them "just taking it" has nothing to do with who is or isn't on our team it is an over riding philosophy that is preached by the players and coaching staff.

The fans hate it, the media goes crazy, some of our players probably don't like it, but the Sedins simply don't care if some jackass wants to take a penalty by giving them a gloved punch in the face.

People make huge issues over little rabbit punches when the real issue was the massive and legal shots the twins were taking from guys like Chara, Weber, Sutter, and Murray.

You think adding toughness will stop any of those guys from playing that hard against the Twins?

The Twins are not scared of Chara beating them up, they are scared of him obliterating them in the corners, and there is simply not a thing the canucks can do about that.

[ukcanuck]

Thorton is a goon and Chara is a wolf in sheep's clothing. McQuaid is learning the ropes but is huge and Lucic....see wolf in sheep's clothing. Ask Raymond for references for BoyChuck one of the hardest hitters in the league....backed up by...well i think u get my drift.......no goons that's a good one ...hey they don't come with labels Pot

as Gallagher said

Right now the Bruins are going through teams so easily because most of their opponents are ill prepared for their skill and physical nature. And some are even just flat out terrified, that whitewash of Florida a couple of weeks back the best example. If they win a second Cup, next year you can be sure more teams will be prepared. Read more: http://www.theprovince.com/sports/Bosto ... z1jSuIHyqb

Count me in the terrified category....any one with the remotest attachment to their body should be. I think the Sedins have a attachment to their bodies and the intelligence to stay clear

Are you quoting Gallagher?

Actually when he said I think that he was talking about himself, I think that he couldn't imagine anyone being on the ice with the Bruin and not doing the river dance. but he must forget that men play in the NHL and Chara and Thornton et al are just men themselves...

[Farhan Lalji]

You think we looked the slightest bit intimidated games 1 and 2 last season?

Games 1 and 2. Not at all. Games 3, 4, and 6 though, yes.

What did the Bruins do when Rome hit Horton?

I saw a bunch of Black sweaters skate around then head for the bench.

Only to have them greatly step up the intensity and physicality in the 2nd period.....to what seems like the present day. Canucks didn't seem to have an answer for that. I don't know....

The sedins will take a gloved punch in the face to go on the power play any day of the week. Them "just taking it" has nothing to do with who is or isn't on our team it is an over riding philosophy that is preached by the players and coaching staff. The fans hate it, the media goes crazy, some of our players probably don't like it, but the Sedins simply don't care if some jackass wants to take a penalty by giving them a gloved punch in the face.

Completely agree, but I also think it does something for a team's spirit if they see their guys standing up to that sort of stuff. For example - when Darren McCarty beat the shit out of Claude Lemieux way back in the day that one time (1997), it was a huge emotional lift for the Wings. They got their revenge on some punk that was literally asking for it. I'd even go as far as saying that that one game/incident between the Wings and Avs changed the entire complexion of their rivalry. Instead of the Avs establishing a dynasty, it was the Wings that went on to win back to back cups.

Maybe I'm reading too much into that one game/incident, but I think the Wings really came together as a team after that. It was just a huge emotional lift.

Now again - I'm not saying that the Canucks have to beat up the B's or anything like that (they can't anyways), but just the idea of 'standing up' and not taking shit when a team like the B's bump up the intensity could be such a huge uplifting experience.

You think adding toughness will stop any of those guys from playing that hard against the Twins?

Oh no absolutely not. They will continue to play hard against them. However - we would atleast have the ability to do the same to their guys on a more consistent basis (regardless if some of our other guys like Bieksa or Hamhuis were injured).

Along with that one facet, we would also still have the ability to punish teams with our natural strengths (i.e. special teams, skill, speed, etc.).

[Potatoe1]

Games 1 and 2. Not at all. Games 3, 4, and 6 though, yes.

You are either intimidated or you aren't, it doesn't change on a nightly basis.

To try and argue that they were intimidated when they lost and fine in the games they won is very silly. I think you know this.

Only to have them greatly step up the intensity and physicality in the 2nd period.....to what seems like the present day. Canucks didn't seem to have an answer for that. I don't know....

So the Bruins responded to the Horton hit by playing really well and scoring goals.

I agree.

This is they way the Canucks responded to the hit on Salo as well.

Maybe I'm reading too much into that one game/incident

You aren't alone. A big chunk of fans and media agree with you, I however do not.

Now again - I'm not saying that the Canucks have to beat up the B's or anything like that (they can't anyways), but just the idea of 'standing up' and not taking shit when a team like the B's bump up the intensity could be such a huge uplifting experience.

You mean kind of like what happened against the Bruins last week?

Oh no absolutely not. They will continue to play hard against them. However - we would atleast have the ability to do the same to their guys on a more consistent basis (regardless if some of our other guys like Bieksa or Hamhuis were injured).

Yes, I agree, adding physical players, who can play, will help you win in the playoffs.

My point all along however is that adding guys who are good fighters really wont make much difference at all. Further to that if the "fighters" are less skilled over all then the guys they are replacing then your chances of winning will actually be lower.

[Farhan Lalji]

You are either intimidated or you aren't, it doesn't change on a nightly basis.

To try and argue that they were intimidated when they lost and fine in the games they won is very silly. I think you know this.

Just the impression I got. You have to admit that both the Canucks and Bruins seemed to play with way more 'fire' in their respective home games. It was almost like watching 2 different series'. To me atleast, the Canucks looked intimidated in both games 3 and 4 after the Horton hit (and subsequent Bruins' anger). In Game 5 though, the Canucks seemed to be extremely fired up/motivated after being embarrassed in Boston. In Game 6 - Canucks looked like they didn't know what the hell was going on with Luongo, and had a 'deer in the headlights look' after the first 2 goals (for the first 10 minutes of the game atleast).

You mean kind of like what happened against the Bruins last week?

Exactly.

However - wouldn't you like to see someone beat the shit out of Marchand? (a la McCarty/Lemieux). What type of emotional lift would something like that have on our team? Maybe it's just me, but I can't stand the fact (or perception?) that "the Canucks were bullied by the big bad Bruins and lost." Whether we like it or not, the NHL media painted the Vancouver Canucks as a bunch of vagina's. Who knows - maybe it's an ego thing on my part. I see what you're saying....but I want to see us beat up guys as well.....if it serves nothing but to fire up the guys emotionally (and the fans for that matter).

My point all along however is that adding guys who are good fighters really wont make much difference at all. Further to that if the "fighters" are less skilled over all then the guys they are replacing then your chances of winning will actually be lower.

I completely agree with this and knew that this was your stance all along as well.

[Madcombinepilot]

what a difference one game makes.

Canucks win game 6 or 7 last year, and this thread is called: "is the Vancouver model finished"

[Potatoe1]

Just the impression I got. You have to admit that both the Canucks and Bruins seemed to play with way more 'fire' in their respective home games. It was almost like watching 2 different series'. To me atleast, the Canucks looked intimidated in both games 3 and 4 after the Horton hit (and subsequent Bruins' anger). In Game 5 though, the Canucks seemed to be extremely fired up/motivated after being embarrassed in Boston. In Game 6 - Canucks looked like they didn't know what the hell was going on with Luongo, and had a 'deer in the headlights look' after the first 2 goals (for the first 10 minutes of the game atleast).

The Canucks played poorly but saying it was due to "physical intimidation" is kind of silly.

I'm going to move on from this point because it's by far the weakest you have made.

You mean kind of like what happened against the Bruins last week?

Exactly.

However - wouldn't you like to see someone beat the shit out of Marchand?

[/quote]

Hell yes I would have.

That said, NHL players are there to win games not please fans.

Much like the Bruins did not take a retaliatory penalty after a dirty hit on Horton the Canucks did not take one after the hit on Salo.

Both teams did the right thing and went on to win the game.

but I can't stand the fact (or perception?) that "the Canucks were bullied by the big bad Bruins and lost." Whether we like it or not, the NHL media painted the Vancouver Canucks as a bunch of vagina's. Who knows - maybe it's an ego thing on my part.

I think you are starting to see the reality of the situation.

For a bit more perspective lets talk about our games against Chicago this year.

Game 1 against they they try and come out and intimidate us, take a bunch of penalties and get hammered by our power play. Game 2 they play one of the cleanest games I have seen that team play and spank us.

To me that speaks volumes about how perception differs from reality in this regard.

The reality is that the Canucks really aren't a team that can be intimidated and the best way to beat them is by playing a clean game and keeping things 5v5.

[ESQ]

[Agreed.......but without a few tough guys (that can play), I'd argue that the Canucks are a bit intimidated by the Bruins. We will never intimidate a team like the Bruins, but we can bring in 1-2 guys that can prevent us from being intimidated by a team like them.

If the Canucks meet the Bruins again, do you think they play the same way after giving up 4 pp goals? I think now that the PP has done what it utterly failed to in the finals, they will be intimidated by the Canucks PP.

I think that if Chara had gotten suspended for the Pacioretty hit (which he should have), they're a different team in the finals. I think that if Lucic had gotten the suspensions he deserved (i.e. more than one lousy game), they're a very different team in the playoffs. I think they're a few significant suspensions away from being forced to change their style.

However - wouldn't you like to see someone beat the shit out of Marchand? (a la McCarty/Lemieux). What type of emotional lift would something like that have on our team?

I do not accept that Detroit won the Cup because McCarty beat up Lemieux. McCarty waited a year before doing anything about the Lemieux hit, and the series was won 2 months after the fight. Lemieux was the least-affected Avalanche by the brawl, whereas Forsberg (their best player) was injured and Roy got the shit kicked out of him.

Detroit was 2 games from the finals in 1996, went to the Finals in 95, and had a roster loaded with HHOFers in 97. Sure the fans loved it, but its impact on the Red Wings has been massively overstated.

[Madcombinepilot]

Farhan, I disagree that we looked intimidated.

I think we looked like we had no idea why Rome got the biggest suspension in stanley cup finals HISTORY, and what would the ref's call next??

Intimidation and confusion are 2 different things..