11/12 Injury Thread

[coco_canuck]

I only see a need for tweaking on our 4th line, Weise is fucking useless, gets beat by non-fighters all the time and looked like an ass for the stunt he pulled on Thornton. Malhotra sucks, the only good thing on the 4th line is Lapierre.

Dude speaks the truth.

I give Manny more credit for last season than you may, but as far as this year goes, the guy really is struggling. You're right to point out he wears the goat horns for the 3rd goal yesterday. Having said that, I've noticed some marginal improvements in his game, but he still has a long way to go before I would feel comfortable putting him out during key defensive moments if the playoffs started tomorrow.

Due to his lack of offensive ability as a centre, I like Manny better on the 4th line, especially with Cody playing well on the third, but unless Malhotra's game improves significantly, I can't say that he will be a regular forward come the playoffs. He won't be dumped for nothing or sent to Manitoba for a number of reasons.

In fairness to Weise, I think he's been serviceable for a waiver pick-up, but I'd love to find an improvement by the deadline. He's a good stop gap player who can hold his own, but he's not a difference maker in any sense, and on this team even the 12th regular forward needs to bring something tangible to the table. Maybe Weise develops something over time, but he's not there right now.

As for making a significant trade, yes I'd love to get Perry for that package, but no fucking way that's happening unless Murray feels unreasonably nostalgic over his time with the Canucks organization. IMO, there's no need whatsoever to trade any of our top 9 forwards. One of the Canucks advantages this season is their incredible depth that has arguably 3 top-6 players on the third line, so unless there's a top pairing d-man or first line winger coming in return, I don't move any of those pieces. Obviously if a great deal comes along MG will make it, but I wouldn't hold my breath, especially over a rumor started by some mongoloid over at CDC.

[BladesofSteel]

I think a more realistic, though slightly less cap friendly option of upgrading the top nine is that of Ryan Malone. While a $4.5 cap hit for another 3 years isn't ideal, what you see is what you get. An experienced big, tough pf who can also play the PK and has a strong two-way game.

It'd be hard to deal an ever improving Raymond, but what you lose in speed, you gain in toughness and grit. Both are team guys who can be moved around the lines. Having the cap friendly contracts of Hansen and Higgins should allow Malone to slot in for the next couple years, particularly since Raymond's $2.6 expires this summer and could be due for a raise with more bargaining power (arbitration).

This deal could even be done without dealing Ballard, LTIR space pending (Booth, Bitz, Piniz, Volpatti, Ebbett, Raymond, Rome gives approx $3.0 so far). Opening the door for a potential separate deal with KB4 for an upgrade on the back end if possible.

IMO, LT injuries to the lesser lights (Piniz, Bitz, Volpatti) could pay a key role in Gillis acquiring a significant player or two come deadline. Small figures no doubt, but it all adds up in the long term.

[coco_canuck]

This deal could even be done without dealing Ballard, LTIR space pending (Booth, Bitz, Piniz, Volpatti, Ebbett, Raymond, Rome gives approx $3.0 so far). Opening the door for a potential separate deal with KB4 for an upgrade on the back end if possible.

I don't know if I would move Raymond for Malone whose game has regressed a bit over the past couple of years, and his contract isn't great for what he brings at this point.

Personally, I'd rather save Cody, Mase, Hansen, Tanev etc. for a run at someone like Weber. I don't think trading Raymond for Malone will give this team a significant edge, and can end up blowing up in the Canucks face if Malone keeps regressing and Raymond keeps improving.

As for Ballard, I really have a hard time seeing him stay with the team beyond this season, but considering Salo's status and history I'm in no rush to move a defenseman unless he's a part of a package to bring in a significant upgrade.

[RoyalDude]

Personally, I'd rather save Cody, Mase, Hansen, Tanev etc. for a run at someone like Weber. I don't think trading Raymond for Malone will give this team a significant edge, and can end up blowing up in the Canucks face if Malone keeps regressing and Raymond keeps improving.

Out of all the trade scenarios people are suggesting, I'd have no problem giving up an arm and a leg, sell the farm, for Shea Weber. Pieces involving CoHo, Raymond, Jensen, Tanev, 1st round pick, whatever. I'd love to see this guy in a Canuck uni. Think he would be exactly what the doctor ordered. Almost like our Chara.

[BladesofSteel]

This deal could even be done without dealing Ballard, LTIR space pending (Booth, Bitz, Piniz, Volpatti, Ebbett, Raymond, Rome gives approx $3.0 so far). Opening the door for a potential separate deal with KB4 for an upgrade on the back end if possible.

I don't know if I would move Raymond for Malone whose game has regressed a bit over the past couple of years, and his contract isn't great for what he brings at this point.

Aside from some injury problems that are typical of any player his age and playing style, I saw no regression in his game (from the handful Tampa playoff games I watched). On the contrary, he's a big game player and the kind of guy you go to battle with in the trenches, unlike that of Raymond.

He was a key cog for USA at the Olympics two years ago along with Kes. This team needs grit and tenacity, he brings it. To be dealt from a sinking Lightning team to one of the best teams in the league can only be a good thing for a gamer like Malone.

True his contract is a little steep, but its on par for the rare type of player he is. Its the considerably cap friendly deals you get from the Higgins', Hansens' and Salo's that allow you to go off the board to acquire the Booth's and Malones... who bring what this team, as a whole, lacks.

[BladesofSteel]

Personally, I'd rather save Cody, Mase, Hansen, Tanev etc. for a run at someone like Weber. I don't think trading Raymond for Malone will give this team a significant edge, and can end up blowing up in the Canucks face if Malone keeps regressing and Raymond keeps improving.

Out of all the trade scenarios people are suggesting, I'd have no problem giving up an arm and a leg, sell the farm, for Shea Weber. Pieces involving CoHo, Raymond, Jensen, Tanev, 1st round pick, whatever. I'd love to see this guy in a Canuck uni. Think he would be exactly what the doctor ordered. Almost like our Chara.

Won't disagree, I'm just going with a more realistic approach with my Malone argument.

[coco_canuck]

Out of all the trade scenarios people are suggesting, I'd have no problem giving up an arm and a leg, sell the farm, for Shea Weber. Pieces involving CoHo, Raymond, Jensen, Tanev, 1st round pick, whatever. I'd love to see this guy in a Canuck uni. Think he would be exactly what the doctor ordered. Almost like our Chara.

Yup, Weber is a franchise defenseman, and I would have no problem giving up a premium to get him, especially if a deal to get him wouldn't involve Edler.

Having a top-4 of Hamhuis, Bieksa, Weber and Edler would be well worth it.

Aside from some injury problems that are typical of any player his age and playing style, I saw no regression in his game (from the handful Tampa playoff games I watched). On the contrary, he's a big game player and the kind of guy you go to battle with in the trenches, unlike that of Raymond.

I think his injury situation is a bit worse than average for a player his age, he hasn't played 70 games in three years and has never played an 82 game season, with his career high being 81, the only year he broke the 80 game mark.

His minutes have declined over the past couple of years and wasn't overly impressive in the playoff last season IMO.

Your point about his Olympic performance is a good one, and he has shown some good flashes in big games, but I wouldn't go as far as to say he's a consistent and dependable big game performer.

True his contract is a little steep, but its on par for the rare type of player he is. Its the considerably cap friendly deals you get from the Higgins', Hansens' and Salo's that allow you to go off the board to acquire the Booth's and Malones... who bring what this team, as a whole, lacks.

All things being equal, I would have no problem with Malone playing on this team, but I wouldn't give up a much younger and cheaper player with higher upside.

The other thing to keep in mind is the cap ceiling moving forward with the CBA coming up in the summer, and do you want to invest another 3 years at $4.5M in a player who may or may not be healthy during key times?

I just think it's a far too risky move considering the Canucks cap situation, even with bargain basement contracts for a few key players. I would be wary taking on his contract in and of itself, let alone giving up appreciable assets to get him.

[Orcasfan]

It's interesting how this thread has morphed into a "possible trade" thread! Anyway, here are my 2 cents worth:

Malhotra - Won't be traded (NTC, as well as the responsibility the Canucks feel towards him, and a very popular guy in the room). Will probably be used for important defensive zone face-offs and other utility roles. May not even be a regular on 4th line.
Trades - Why? The whole point for MG to acquire Booth, as well as keep Higgins and Raymond was to ensure top 9 depth! The problem with SCF was lack of scoring depth (as well as Thomas!). With Sedins either injured or "Charred", and Kesler (and Sammy) injured, who was going to provide the scoring? So, look at the top 9 depth now - Sedins, Burr, Kesler, Higgins, Booth, Cody, Hansen and Raymond. Not bad? Plus, the 2nd PP unit is actually starting to fire on all cylinders (unlike last year). For my money (as I laid out in threads during the summer), the key ingredient has been the development of Cody. He has progressed his game to the point where he is now able to make other players better! So, finally, we have a 3rd line that is a scoring threat!
Do we need more depth there? A hard playoff season might result in more injuries to that top 9, so..why not? But what would we have to give up?
I don't see MG trading for more depth D-men. He could certainly be tempted to get in the sweepstakes for a real talented D, but at what price? In order to land the big names, too much would have to be subtracted from the roster - thereby risking a real deep playoff run.
Now I could see some more action around acquiring a real legit tough 4th liner. Especially, if the guy had speed and could really contribute. But, I imagine there are another 20 teams out there looking for the same guy! I'm not talking about some goon-fighter here! That role will be useless come playoffs. I'm curious as to what Duco can bring this time.
I don't think Weiss should ever have been seen as fitting that tough 4th liner role. The kid is only 23, and is really only a rookie! With the injuries/failures of Volpatti and Oreo, he was given a try. For a young, inexperienced player, he hasn't been too bad! But he is not a nasty, tough 4th liner. Actually, I forgive him for the "situation" yesterday with Thornton. Thornton had no business goading a guy into a fight who had already had a long fight earlier in the same period! Talk about BS!

[BladesofSteel]

Good point re: the CBA Coco, one thing I did not consider moving forward on the Malone discussion.

In other news, it seems the Penguins ongoing reign of terrible bad luck continues. Staal will be out with a Booth-like injury for 4-6 after colliding with Rupp. And now they've lost Neal for "weeks" with a broken foot. The Pens are already short Letang and Crosby, both to concussions. Ouch.

[tantalum]

I'd still have a hard time moving Hodgson given the importance of center ice depth for a long playoff run especially because Kesler likes to get injured and how Malhotra does not seem up to the challenge of playing center this year.

But the others on RDs list should absolutely be in play.

That said, Weber is RFA again at the end of the year. The Preds won't be trading him at the deadline IMO. THey have no need to move him and given he is who he is no matter what time of year he is dealt it is going to be a great return. I don't think the deadline improves his value a tremendous amount compared to draft day.

Suter on the other hand WILL be moved if they can't sign him before the deadline. They can't afford to get nothing back for that asset.

[Orcasfan]

I agree, Joplin,....Suter will be moved at the deadline. I would love to see Suter in a Canucks jersey! But I'm not sure what it would take. He is a UFA on July 1, so the Preds can't expect a whole lot for him. How about a swap - Ballard for Suter?

[Cornuck]

We have a theoretical trade thread somewhere. Let's get this one back on track.

[BladesofSteel]

So TSN reported on Sportscentre that Booth is indeed cleared to play, but isn't expected to suit up tonight against the Panthers. I know AV has an internal rule that he likes his guys to have X # of practices with the team prior to getting game action, I'm curious as to how many full practices he's taken part in so far.

Of course he could be a game time decision, given FLA being his former team and all, but I do find it intriguing that Duco has been recalled following the news of Ebbett going down... another ex-Panther. In 12 career games, he has 0 points, -4 with 6 SOG, 28 hits and 60 PIM.

[Hockey Widow]

So TSN reported on Sportscentre that Booth is indeed cleared to play, but isn't expected to suit up tonight against the Panthers. I know AV has an internal rule that he likes his guys to have X # of practices with the team prior to getting game action, I'm curious as to how many full practices he's taken part in so far.

Of course he could be a game time decision, given FLA being his former team and all, but I do find it intriguing that Duco has been recalled following the news of Ebbett going down... another ex-Panther. In 12 career games, he has 0 points, -4 with 6 SOG, 28 hits and 60 PIM.

Av said he was waiting for Booth to tell him he could play and until he does he won't be in the line up. So yes he has been cleared to play but he has to feel like he can play. I know he wanted to be in this game but AV said it is doubtful for the Florida game given Booth has not approached him to tell him he is ready to go. As far as AV is concerned as soon as Booth says he can play he is in the line up so I imagine any game now we will see him back.

[Uncle dans leg]

What's the story on Booth? Is he better yet? No word for days after he's been cleared has me wondering what's up....