Vancouver's Hockey "Media"

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Re: Vancouver's Hockey "Media"

Postby Strangelove » Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:19 pm

wienerdog wrote:I kinda like the spirit of this idea, but:

Call me crazy, but I just don't see Gillis ever approaching Quinn to do something like this.


The spirit of the idea is all I was going for. :thumbs:

It'll never happen. Pretty sure Gillis and Quinn still resent each other from when Gillis was an agent. As a matter of fact, speaking of Bure, pretty sure Gillis was his agent and threatening to sue Canucks over non-payment of the signing bonus (Bure dropped Salcer for Gillis) on that huge contract back in the day. It was payable immediately but for some reason Canucks had to be hounded to cough it up.... about 3 months later I believe.

I could be wrong but I don't think Quinn and Gillis respect each other to this day.
Last edited by Strangelove on Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Vancouver's Hockey "Media"

Postby Potatoe1 » Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:22 pm

Strangelove wrote:"I don't get why he's so mad at ME for??"

Bure said later that the rumour sprang from Canuck's front office (I'm convinced twas George McPhee).

Between the two of them (Quinn & McPhee) they managed to completely alienate poor Pavel.



What I never understood about that whole story is that Pavel apparently held it against the Canucks for not defending him quickly or emphatically enough in that situation.

I'm not sure how you defend him any more aggressively then threatening to shit kick the guy who reported the story.
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Re: Vancouver's Hockey "Media"

Postby Strangelove » Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:32 pm

Potatoe1 wrote:What I never understood about that whole story is that Pavel apparently held it against the Canucks for not defending him quickly or emphatically enough in that situation.

I'm not sure how you defend him any more aggressively then threatening to shit kick the guy who reported the story.


Well the thing is the rumour sprang from Canucks management. There was alotta bad blood because Canucks were trying to lowball him and were badmouthing him in negotiations. He originally wanted a contract similar to that of Fedorov and Mogilny. Canucks brass were hesitant. If McPhee/Quinn had a problem with that they should've done a sign-and-trade rather than shit all over him. When Quinn tried to quash the false rumour there was already too much bad blood...

Canuck management try to quash a rumour that Canuck management created??

Bure had good reason to be pissed imo.

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Re: Vancouver's Hockey "Media"

Postby Potatoe1 » Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:36 pm

Cornuck wrote:
cjc wrote:Most of the sports talk shows seem to be driven by twitter and message board rules. "Mass" media now is truly that, driven by the masses.


Good time to be in journalism when all you have to do is cruise the blogs with your morning coffee and grab some ideas.

As for the mass media being driven by the masses? Maybe in sports, but I think that for everything else we're told what to think, and the blogs and message boards offer different views. (ie: the run up to the Iran Iraq war.



The content available at blogging sites such as CanucksArmy are so far ahead of the traditional print media that it's kind of shocking that the province still carries so much staff.

If I ran that paper I would pretty much clean out everyone but Botch (who actually does a prety solid job) and then then sift through the multitude of bogs and buy the articles I liked for the main paper.
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Re: Vancouver's Hockey "Media"

Postby Potatoe1 » Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:40 pm

Strangelove wrote:
Canuck management try to quash a rumour that Canuck management created??

Bure had good reason to be pissed imo.


This part never made much sense.

Why go after Cherry if he is simply reporting the rumor you are trying to spread?

I know the management and ownership were a bit of a cluster back then, but I never really believed this part of the Bure story.
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Re: Vancouver's Hockey "Media"

Postby cjc » Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:45 pm

Potatoe1 wrote:
Strangelove wrote:
Canuck management try to quash a rumour that Canuck management created??

Bure had good reason to be pissed imo.


This part never made much sense.

Why go after Cherry if he is simply reporting the rumor you are trying to spread?

I know the management and ownership were a bit of a cluster back then, but I never really believed this part of the Bure story.


Bure always vehemently denied the accusations and it appeared Pat Quinn did too. The problem was partially that Bure thought management didn't do enough to clear his name.

I have no idea where the rumour started but from everything I've heard about Pat Quinn (a guy I worked with knew Murray Craven) he was very upfront with the players, a straight shooter and a players' coach. It seems unlikely he would have been into spreading stories in order to force a player to sign a contract.
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Re: Vancouver's Hockey "Media"

Postby Mondi » Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:46 pm

Vancouver's hockey media never ceases to amaze and disappoint.

Over the past year, we've had the national media taking runs at the Canucks. We've had the Chicago media. We've had various NHL players. And now we have the Boston media.

On the one hand the national media is a bit of mystery. Why they felt need to weigh in was perhaps not surprising given that it was the Stanley Cup finals, but the level of ambivalence mixed with downright distain was hard to figure. Particularly, given the relative love-ins when Edmonton and Ottawa recently made the finals. Not too mention the circle jerk that was Calgary's nearly decade old run to their ultimate demise against the Lightning of Tampa Bay.

Then, of course, we had the unsolicited shots coming in droves from both Boston and Chicago media, management, coaches and players. In addition, there are shots coming league wide from the borderline illiterate twitter accounts of other members of the NHLPA.

Sadly, the 'leave it on a the ice' mentality or the 'code' of mutual respect has all but evaporated with regard to the Vancouver Canucks. For the longest time the NHL seemed above and beyond most of insult-through-media nonsense of the NFL and NBA. But, of late, many have seen the need to take runs at Vancouver through the media (and with media help I might add). Whether deserved or not (often admittedly at least partially deserved), these kinds of things are rare (though not unheard of) in the NHL, particularly in the regular season.

Now, part of me is not troubled by this in the least. For the opinions of mental minnows like Barry Rozer, Dan Shaughnessy, Michael Felger, David Bolland, Mark Recchi, Ryan Whitney, Brad Marchand, Shawn Thornton and Ryan Clowe matter little. Even with the addition of moderately more influential pundits like Ron MacLean, Marc Spector, PJ Stock, Mike Milbury, Don Cherry, Damien Cox, and Bruce Dowbiggin I'm not overly bothered by anti-Canuck sentiment. The ripe mix of Ex-Bruins, Torontonians and Calgarians makes for a kind of unsurprising and potent anti-CAnucks stew.

However, where I draw the line is with the lack of respect and support the Vancouver media has for the team. For the most part, they reason that media-types aren't wearing a jersey and nor are they meant too. Further, they argue, unlike Boston, Chicago or even Toronto they won't stoop to the level of cheerleader for the team.

This, I can respect--in principle. But in practice? Never have I heard such negative coverage of a first place team from a bunch of transplanted half-wits and local jokers. BMac and Don Taylor, Vancouver born and bread pick against Vancouver going in to Boston. Vancouver wins. They come on the radio and say...Vancouver can't beat Boston in a 7 game series. What more can you ask for than a win?

Botchford, Sekeres, Price...not even from Vancouver so it perhaps gladly that they identify the Canucks failings. They seem to take pleasure in pointing out the problems with Vancouver's fourth line and 6th defense. As if those players have an real impact on the success or failure of the team.

Tony Gallagher saying the best Canucks team in history has tuned out AV. His evidence? A few losses to bottom feeders. Imagine if the team wasn't challenging for first place overall! Tony G even goes as far as to say Edler and Sedins play scared against Boston. SCARED. He said they didn't want to be on the ice. Calling out their manhood. In others times and others places that could get you killed.

Constantly derision. Constant nitpicking. Constant complaints.

About what? A first place team. Two top-five scorers. The league's top PP....etc. We all know the virtues.

They lose to Boston. And the media reasons, well it was because the PP failed
They beat Boston. And the media reasons, they cannot expect the PP to perform like that in the playoffs.

Honestly during the late 1990s what more could we have hoped for than the league's top PP.

That is just microcosm of the constant no-win scenario concocted by theses guys week-in and week-out. It has reached a point where I think a friggin' Cup wouldn't silence the doubters. They'd say things like, "yeah but, the Twins were minus in the finals!" Or, "yeah but, they didn't sweep Nashville!" Just today they were going on about how Nashville took six games to dispatch!. Or, "they didn't have to beat Detroit AND Chicago"....etc.

How many times can we break down who started game 4 in Boston. Or why the PP didn't work. Or how close they came to losing to Chicago. The reality is they are a great team who had a great season last year. They came up short, but they were freaking close to winning it all.

There is no "model" to follow. There is no magical tough top 9 winger or top 6 d-man that will put the Canucks over the top this year. They have to get to the final first and the they have to perform. No amount of whining about Ballard and Hodgson's ice time will change the only fact that matters. The only fact that mattered for the last 5 seasons: this team will rise and fall on the backs of Kesler, Luongo (or Cory) and the Sedins. No trade, call-up or stupid fourth-liner/7th d-man will affect that.

Yet we find the mind constantly picking on the flaws of a team that is in fairly rarified air amongst its NHL counterpoints.

Which brings me in a roundabout way to my point: why the fuck can't our media stand up for this team? Why can't they write positive columns extolling the virtues of the Canucks success. Why not take shot at the snivelling, dirty and downright disrespectful nature of the blatantly biased media members and classless opposing players.

These people who take shots from outside could be made to look like a bunch of fools extolling the virtue of class and the lack of it in Vancouver. Yet, our media chooses rather to debate whether Dale Weise is tough enough and whether Keith Ballard should play in favour of Alex Sulzer.

There is no need for our media to put on a jersey. Nor is their need for them to pump up the Caucks tires as it were...all they have to do is be objective, reasonable and explanatory. They hypocrisy is out there (as is the Canucks relative success) all they need to do is point it out with the sharpness and vigour that they normal reserve for deriding the Canucks.

After listening to 1040 and reading the papers for the past few weeks you'd expect the team was on 1-7-1 streak as opposed to 7-1-1. How often can we rehash losses to Carolina, Columbus and Nashville...now a month on?

This is a good team. And our media members had best take stock of it.

OMG BALLARD IS A HEALTHY SCRATCH. AV AND MG MUST BE FEUDING. OMG OMG OMG.
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Re: Vancouver's Hockey "Media"

Postby Strangelove » Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:30 pm

cjc wrote:
Potatoe1 wrote:
Strangelove wrote:
Canuck management try to quash a rumour that Canuck management created??

Bure had good reason to be pissed imo.


This part never made much sense.

Why go after Cherry if he is simply reporting the rumor you are trying to spread?

I know the management and ownership were a bit of a cluster back then, but I never really believed this part of the Bure story.


Bure always vehemently denied the accusations and it appeared Pat Quinn did too. The problem was partially that Bure thought management didn't do enough to clear his name.

I have no idea where the rumour started but from everything I've heard about Pat Quinn (a guy I worked with knew Murray Craven) he was very upfront with the players, a straight shooter and a players' coach. It seems unlikely he would have been into spreading stories in order to force a player to sign a contract.


Guys, it really looks like McPhee planted the story when you look at all the facts.

Then Quinn ran around trying to put out the fire.

McPhee was known for being super-emotional, vindictive, and taking things personally... so I can see it.

Good article here:

http://www.puckwatch.com/2010/12/why-pavel-bure-left-vancouver.html

Coles notes:

1. Bure arrived in LA waiting to meet with the Canucks who left him sitting for weeks.

2. Bure was asked to pay $50,000 of his salary towards buying him out of his Russian contract

3. After winning the Calder Trophy as Rookie of the Year, the Canucks felt he needed to prove his value more before signing a new contract.

4. After agreeing to a contract of similar value to Sergei Fedorov and Alexander Mogilny, the Canucks pulled the rug out from under Bure by making the numbers in Canadian dollars instead of American dollars, a very uncommon practice.

5. Canucks refused to pay a signing bonus they owed him.

6. Broken promises about moving Pavel, and a handful of other instances destroying trust.

"But by far the most significant reason for wanting to leave came when, he said, somebody in Vancouver management made up a story that Bure threatened to withdraw his services during the '94 playoff run to the Cup final. While Bure would in no way even indicate whom he thought it might be, reason would indicate it was either then-acting assistant GM George McPhee or then-owner Arthur Griffiths. Quinn has indicated to some insiders he was led to believe Bure had threatened to withdraw his services by 'my guy' but now says privately and publicly it never happened."

“About two months later, when I was starting slowly, they (most likely McPhee) told me, `You were lucky to get 60 goals,' and that I would never do it again. They told me I'd be lucky to get 30 again. I told them, Forget about the contract, just trade me. You don't trust me, just trade me.”


"My guy" has got to be Assistant GM McPhee imo.

No matter how you slice it though, Pavel was not treated well by Canuck management.

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Re: Vancouver's Hockey "Media"

Postby Mondi » Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:48 am

Why does Tony Gallagher think that if Vancouver loses to Detroit tonight that they will have no chance at winning the conference.

Wow they'd be 5 points back.

Imagine the following happening after tonight's games.

Detroit 1-3-1 = 3 pts
Vancouver 3-0-2 = 8 pts

Wow, that is inconceivable! And it assumes Vancouver losses tonight and they'd still have a game in hand.

This is kind of like when Tony G said the same thing earlier in the season about a loss to San Jose.
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Re: Vancouver's Hockey "Media"

Postby Uncle dans leg » Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:59 am

Strangelove wrote:
No matter how you slice it though, Pavel was not treated well by Canuck management.

I tell ya I would've wanted out of a chicken shit outfit like that too. Imagine treating your breadwinning superstar like a future ex-wife?
Suddenly I'm not so pissed at him for "dumping" us.
Listen, don't mention the war. I mentioned it once, but I think I got away with it all right.
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Re: Vancouver's Hockey "Media"

Postby LotusBlossom » Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:47 am

If the media didn't take the angles that they have been taking on the Canucks, what the hell would we as fans gripe about?

:P

It's a town with a one trick pony in terms of sports. Despite having the Lions and the Caps here, only thing this city truly follows, casual or not, are the Canucks, so they give angles that we hope to read and stir opinions. Last I looked from my creative writing classes and my journalism classes, to invoke emotion, whether negative or positive is much better than to have someone read your stuff and go 'meh' if you are a journalist.

I actually really like reading and listening to Jason Botchford. I don't always agree with him, but I do respect that he gives his reasoning for his opinions and doesn't back down from them.
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Re: Vancouver's Hockey "Media"

Postby damonberryman » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:29 pm

I got to agree with the comments about our media. The only one I like is Bullis and his blog and Botchford. The rest of them are shameful. I sat and watched Gallagher get set up on air by a Boston media type. He all but served his whiny ass up on a plate for Thornton to dis. I do not like the Boston media but I do not get the Cherrys and Macleans. Milbury is just a douche bag. I suspect our media has followed the Canucks long enough to have Post Canuck Trauma disorder which has criteria including:
1. Patient exhibits urge to self denigrate in private while agreeing with doom sayers in public.
2. Patient develops high pitched tone in voice accompanied by tremors and an urge to wipe off sweat where none exists
3. Patient was absolutely positive we would win in 94 and still wakes up screaming at Mike Richter
4. The afflicted is stimulated by pictures taken of the back of Mark Messier's head under a bright light
5. Patient has secretely vowed to never take a stand on Canucks for the rest of their career.
6. Since onset of illness patient finds sexual satisfaction in shaving their head while wearing a wig in public.
7. While bald under the private view of self and others afflicted they come up behind each other in a conga line, grabbing the ears in front of them and screaming that they guarantee a cup. This is usually but not always accompanied by the wearing of a Mark Messier jersey.

Treatment options are limited and confined to wearing a Trevor Linden Jersey while covering the ECHL for a local rag. Needless to say, it is often refused when offered.
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Re: Vancouver's Hockey "Media"

Postby Orcasfan » Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:35 pm

Thanks, Mondi, for a great summation of the pathetic state of the local sports MSM! Totally agree! The papers are a joke, especially the Province. I do not understand why Gallagher still has a job! :look: And that idiot-filled 1040 mostly makes me shudder. I actually had some hope for Rintoule a while back - I figured he was young enough to maybe learn about hockey (instead of football!). I was wrong. :( I really don't get it....everyone knows that Vancouver is predominantly a hockey town, yet none of these so-called sports journalists knows squat about hockey! And, despite all their years yapping about it, they still haven't learned enough to have an intelligent discussion about the Canucks! Are they just very lazy buggers, or are they lacking something like curiosity? :look:

Actually, even though I do not appreciate Sekeris' attitude of shit-stirring to create a "story", he does appear to have a modicum of intelligence. His knowledge of (professional) sports is wider than his colleagues, though his hockey knowledge is still too low. Once again, though, it seems his main approach is focused on the hunt for a "story", as opposed to getting into the game itself!

And, like so many of us, I turn to the blogosphere to explore, learn and discuss all things Canucks! Though some discretion is essential there too! :wink:
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Re: Vancouver's Hockey "Media"

Postby Fred » Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:14 pm

Actually, even though I do not appreciate Sekeris' attitude of shit-stirring to create a "story", he does appear to have a modicum of intelligence. His knowledge of (professional) sports is wider than his colleagues, though his hockey knowledge is still too low


I reach for the off button every time he and Price get into a elementary school type argument
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Re: Vancouver's Hockey "Media"

Postby LotusBlossom » Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:21 am

Orcasfan wrote:Thanks, Mondi, for a great summation of the pathetic state of the local sports MSM! Totally agree! The papers are a joke, especially the Province. I do not understand why Gallagher still has a job! :look: And that idiot-filled 1040 mostly makes me shudder. I actually had some hope for Rintoule a while back - I figured he was young enough to maybe learn about hockey (instead of football!). I was wrong. :( I really don't get it....everyone knows that Vancouver is predominantly a hockey town, yet none of these so-called sports journalists knows squat about hockey! And, despite all their years yapping about it, they still haven't learned enough to have an intelligent discussion about the Canucks! Are they just very lazy buggers, or are they lacking something like curiosity? :look:

Actually, even though I do not appreciate Sekeris' attitude of shit-stirring to create a "story", he does appear to have a modicum of intelligence. His knowledge of (professional) sports is wider than his colleagues, though his hockey knowledge is still too low. Once again, though, it seems his main approach is focused on the hunt for a "story", as opposed to getting into the game itself!

And, like so many of us, I turn to the blogosphere to explore, learn and discuss all things Canucks! Though some discretion is essential there too! :wink:


This is what I mean about a town that only cares about hockey, and that's ok, but it is a sports radio station. There are other sports besides Canucks hockey, which is why TEAM1040 covers other things and talk about things like football. Rintoul is a really fun guy to listen to about football.

But admittedly, Farhan Lalji (the real one) is far better to listen to when he subs in for people than anyone on the station regularly.

Harrison Mooney aka Pass It to Bulis (he's a friend, I'm biased) and Wyatt Arndt are my favourite guys that blog about the Canucks. That Cam Charron kid is pretty good too, he just can't handle his liquor. ;)
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