GDT: Canucks @ Beantown - 10am - Snet / NHLN-US

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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Beantown - 10am - Snet / NHLN-US

Postby tantalum » Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:56 pm

Reefer2 wrote:Not to defend him but he only had 1 foot in the bench and one on the ice, does that consititute a line change? And Cherry, the reason Sedin got off the ice was because it was a line change and he would of been in trouble if he even touched a guy.


I admit it's a grey area but I think it would have been a lot less grey if Lucic charged 100 feet to get involved. I don't get why the lack of distance excuses it. And as I said it was still the correct call by the officials from a game management scenario and what it looked like to them. It's like that Edler goal against the WIngs, there is no way to actually know if the push was what caused Hansen to go down or not the only thing the refs sees at full speed is the contact and Hansen falling. IT's a good call given what he saw (it would also have been a good call to wave off the goal and call incidental contact...could have either way). There was no need for the league to come out and say the wrong call was made because they have no idea from a replay what caused the fall.

Every canucks on the ice even with it being 6 guys was on the ice legally as they were in the midst of a line change. Henrik was likely smart to be overly cautious but I don't there would have been an issue. IT is the reason they Downie off the hook.

I understand a 10 game suspension would be harsh to Lucic and I can't help but think the NHL had to rescind the game misconduct or suspend him for 10.
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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Beantown - 10am - Snet / NHLN-US

Postby Hockey Widow » Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:09 pm

70.1 Leaving the Bench - No player or goalkeeper may leave the players’ or penalty bench at any time during an altercation or for the purpose of starting an altercation. Substitutions made prior to the altercation shall be permitted provided the players so substituting do not enter the altercation.

So if I'm reading this correctly, the substituting player is not deemed to have left the bench to join an altercation but if he does so he is still in contravention which means Lucic should have been penalized as he was as substituting player. Therefore, whoever replaced Hank was also in contravention of the rule and thus should have been penalized correct?

Now what I don't know is what the penalty is. Is it a game misconduct or what? I think Lucic clearly made a legal substitution, i.e., he did not leave the bench to join an altercation, but the rules says he cannot join an altercation as a substituting player. So I can see no automatic 10 game suspension which I am fine with in this case but I am a little confused.
Last edited by Hockey Widow on Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Beantown - 10am - Snet / NHLN-US

Postby Listercat » Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:10 pm

:P Dude, now you are changing your tune!

First it was Manny didn't stay with his check. Now its he lost the draw! Make up your mind FFS.

If KB or Hammer pick up Krecji he doesn't get a whiff of that puck. BTW look at a lot of the faceoffs in that game. The B's bend the face off interference rule to the breaking point. Seems to be a systemic thing.

If you want to give a player horns how about Alex Edler. Gave the puck away on the Peverley goal. Gave the puck away on a cute drop pass that resulted in a penalty shot. Cory saved his ass big time on that. Gave the puck away and took a penalty when he had lots of time to put it off the boards and out. This is a guy with huge potential but for the past month his head has been in the stratosphere. His +- is lower than KB3 and Hammer and they play against the other teams top players. When KB3 had a +- arounf -10 everyone was screaming about "casual Kev". Is there a different rating system for AE? Alex' defensive play has been brutal, he's not hitting and he is making some really bad decisions with the puck.
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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Beantown - 10am - Snet / NHLN-US

Postby hist » Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:13 pm

Reefer2 wrote:
Just once I would love to see MG go on CBC and call Cherry and stooge #1 out, Cherry is such a fuck tard, the only time I watch him is if Canucks play the early game, he goes on about the 11 PP Canucks get but not the 8 Boston gets. He talks about the tap Burrows gives but not the punched Boston gives. He talks about the non fight but not the constant after whistle punched to the Sedin's by Boston tough guys.


Not only that, but the "11 Power Plays" is misleading. If you score on a 5-minute major, you're considered to be starting another power play after that. They scored twice on that penalty, so they were 2-3 on it. They didn't get 11 separate power plays. They really only got 9.
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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Beantown - 10am - Snet / NHLN-US

Postby porp » Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:02 pm

I really don't understand the *hate* on MM - has everyone forgotten his dominance in the FO before his injury? Sure, he's not playing nearly as well right now, but he's still probably a leader in the dressing room and definitely a player we'll want in the playoffs especially once he gets back into form/learn to compensate for his disability.

Totally sympathize with all of the angst about the Canucks being cheapshotted all the time. Maybe it's a compliment - the feeling around the league is that the 'nucks can't be beat without cheapshotting and generally playing dirty. When was the last time another team tilted the 'nucks acting like white knights at an Arthurian tournament? And won?

Personally, I suspect that Mike Gillis' ego is SOOOO fucking enormous that he wants to be inducted into the HHOF as a builder - a GM who changed the 'modern' NHL (back) into a game of skill and sportsmanship. By building the Canucks this way and making his coach stick to hockey integrity, if MG wins a cup, or a couple/few cups, other teams will try to follow the template, and hopefully the rest of the league swings along into the pure-skill template.
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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Beantown - 10am - Snet / NHLN-US

Postby Hockey Widow » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:22 pm

porp wrote:I really don't understand the *hate* on MM - has everyone forgotten his dominance in the FO before his injury? Sure, he's not playing nearly as well right now, but he's still probably a leader in the dressing room and definitely a player we'll want in the playoffs especially once he gets back into form/learn to compensate for his disability.

Totally sympathize with all of the angst about the Canucks being cheapshotted all the time. Maybe it's a compliment - the feeling around the league is that the 'nucks can't be beat without cheapshotting and generally playing dirty. When was the last time another team tilted the 'nucks acting like white knights at an Arthurian tournament? And won?

Personally, I suspect that Mike Gillis' ego is SOOOO fucking enormous that he wants to be inducted into the HHOF as a builder - a GM who changed the 'modern' NHL (back) into a game of skill and sportsmanship. By building the Canucks this way and making his coach stick to hockey integrity, if MG wins a cup, or a couple/few cups, other teams will try to follow the template, and hopefully the rest of the league swings along into the pure-skill template.



You should go post this on Calpuke so we can all go in and watch the explosion! :D
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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Beantown - 10am - Snet / NHLN-US

Postby ukcanuck » Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:43 am

[quote="porp"]I really don't understand the *hate* on MM - has everyone forgotten his dominance in the FO before his injury? Sure, he's not playing nearly as well right now, but he's still probably a leader in the dressing room and definitely a player we'll want in the playoffs especially once he gets back into form/learn to compensate for his disability.

Totally sympathize with all of the angst about the Canucks being cheapshotted all the time. Maybe it's a compliment - the feeling around the league is that the 'nucks can't be beat without cheapshotting and generally playing dirty. When was the last time another team tilted the 'nucks acting like white knights at an Arthurian tournament? And won?

Personally, I suspect that Mike Gillis' ego is SOOOO fucking enormous that he wants to be inducted into the HHOF as a builder - a GM who changed the 'modern' NHL (back) into a game of skill and sportsmanship. By building the Canucks this way and making his coach stick to hockey integrity, if MG wins a cup, or a couple/few cups, other teams will try to follow the template, and hopefully the rest of the league swings along into the pure-skill template.[/quote]

interesting take on the motivations of GMMG. I dont know if its a humongous ego rather than that speed skill and straight dealing on and off the ice, are the only way to build a consistant winner. The redwings have been the template and the Canucks are following that lead. An example of the right way to treat people is right here in Malhotra, a free agent signing last year, what would it look like to potential free agents if we cut, parked or traded the guy now that he has lost a big chunk of his vision in the Canucks service. its akin to letting war vets suffer in roach infested V.A. hospitals when they are no longer of any use.
Its only been half a season for malhotra to adjust and he deserves the remainder of his contract to work himself back. In order to sign a new deal if thats in the cards for him. But for the canucks the only way forward is clearly what they have had success at and that is treating players and staff like they are human beings.
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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Beantown - 10am - Snet / NHLN-US

Postby Hockey Widow » Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:00 am

If Manny had no value he would not be playing. Loyalty is one thing but I do think he is being under valued here by some. He is not the same player he was when we signed him for sure. But I have to believe he is still of value or he would not have a place on the team.

By the way on an interview with Av i heard him say that the 4th line next game was Duco/Manny/Weise

I guess Lappy moves up to the 3rd line for now.
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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Beantown - 10am - Snet / NHLN-US

Postby wienerdog » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:07 am

RoyalDude wrote:I just want everyone to stop using the only excuse why Manny is soooooo valuable because of his face-offs when after losing two key face-offs in a row at a key point in the game, not mention his brain fart in letting his check go, the same guy who ended up putting the Bruins back to within 1 goal. That goal gave Boston life. Manny is overrated. I don't get the love for the guy. Of course, I know full well about the NTC with Manny, all I am saying is 'scratch the fucking bum'.


In the very same post in which you're complaining about people's mis-attributions of Malhotra, you call him out on a missed assignment; according to Lister, it's not even his mistake.

:hmmm:

I still haven't watched the game yet, but Lister knows his bloody shit, so I'll go with the 'cat on this one.

We get it. You want him gone. Everyone here is well aware. But FFS™, Manny can't be traded and MG's definitely not going to waive an FA signing like Malhotra.

We already had to endure a whole season of dead horse beating last year with Ballard - you going for an encore?

My suggestion: some Hendricks and tonics and maybe you can think of something else to entertain us with. :drink:
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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Beantown - 10am - Snet / NHLN-US

Postby wienerdog » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:14 am

tantalum wrote:It's like that Edler goal against the WIngs, there is no way to actually know if the push was what caused Hansen to go down or not the only thing the refs sees at full speed is the contact and Hansen falling. IT's a good call given what he saw (it would also have been a good call to wave off the goal and call incidental contact...could have either way). There was no need for the league to come out and say the wrong call was made because they have no idea from a replay what caused the fall.


I missed this - did the League itself actually denounce the call?
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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Beantown - 10am - Snet / NHLN-US

Postby Per » Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:54 am

Vpete wrote:How come Chara never gets taken to task for his post whistle chirping and cheapness?

Because he's a freaking giant.

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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Beantown - 10am - Snet / NHLN-US

Postby RoyalDude » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:28 am

wienerdog wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:I just want everyone to stop using the only excuse why Manny is soooooo valuable because of his face-offs when after losing two key face-offs in a row at a key point in the game, not mention his brain fart in letting his check go, the same guy who ended up putting the Bruins back to within 1 goal. That goal gave Boston life. Manny is overrated. I don't get the love for the guy. Of course, I know full well about the NTC with Manny, all I am saying is 'scratch the fucking bum'.


In the very same post in which you're complaining about people's mis-attributions of Malhotra, you call him out on a missed assignment; according to Lister, it's not even his mistake.

:hmmm:

I still haven't watched the game yet, but Lister knows his bloody shit, so I'll go with the 'cat on this one.

We get it. You want him gone. Everyone here is well aware. But FFS™, Manny can't be traded and MG's definitely not going to waive an FA signing like Malhotra.

We already had to endure a whole season of dead horse beating last year with Ballard - you going for an encore?

My suggestion: some Hendricks and tonics and maybe you can think of something else to entertain us with. :drink:


Weinerdog and Listerine, you're looking like a couple of dingbats here, please go back to the beginning of my post and not be lazy with your reading skills. The gist of my argument BEFORE I mentioned the checking assignment in which I may be wrong in blaming Malhotra but I still feel that he is apart of the blame in what maybe miscommunication between him and his D-man, he is the centreman in that situation, the captain of the ship so to speak, BUT ANYWAYS, my main argument was to squash all this hubub about MANNY and HIS GREAT FACE-OFFING, MR. IMPORTANT FACE-OFF GUY. If he had done his job, what you all said he is here to do, is to get all nasty in the face-off circle, Mr. big game face-off dude, non-choker in the circle and win those two face-offs, IN A ROW, IN WHICH HE DIDN'T, in our zone against Krejci, the man who gave Boston life again putting them back to within one goal, Manny may have done himself some favors and deflected the criticisms he is garnering of late.

There, how's that for straightening you to out, re-aligning you to my original argument, and for future reference do not skim read my posts, there are important things to be had in the fine print.
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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Beantown - 10am - Snet / NHLN-US

Postby Listercat » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:56 am

Dude you babble on and just dig the hole deeper.

Yes Manny lost 2 draws, we got that. It happens even to the best FO men. What's Manny FO % throughout the year? Still pretty damn good I believe.

The "gist" of your post is is that he lost the draw and then did not stick with his check. You obviously don't have a clue about how the positioning or checking assignments work in a 4v4 and you are trying to divert attention away from your gaffe in analysis. If i could I would draw it out on the chalkboard for you but you probably would not understand that either. The centreman controls the positioning of the players on draws based on what he is going to try to do on the draw. Manny was on his strong side so he tries to pull the puck back to the corner. Hammer would be positioned behind Manny to his left. KB3 and the winger are to the right. The winger goes to the weakside point man while KB3 should position himself to pick up any one coming to the net. The draw is lost goes back to the point, Hammer stays wide left and KB3 is high and to the right. Manny sees the puck going to his check, the strong side point man and moves to check him. Krecji simply filters through to the net in the gap between the D men. The shot comes through Cory can't handle the rebound and Krecji bangs it in.

There was no "miscommunication" here, the guys know what they are supposed to do if they win or lose the draw. This was simply a case of not executing.

You continue to slam a guy who has had a career threatening eye injury which I believe is still impacting his play to some extent. He was never brought here to play a large offensive role. He was brought in to fill the role of a key face off guy and he continues to do that. He has one of the top % in the league and takes many of the D zone faceoffs against the leagues top centres. He isn't perfect and I have yet to see anyone who is.

If you want to slam someone at least get your facts straight.
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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Beantown - 10am - Snet / NHLN-US

Postby Potatoe1 » Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:41 am

Almost every time Manny steps on the ice he it is to take a defensive zone draw against one of the opposing teams top 2 lines. Either that or he's killing a penalty.

He's had his ice time cut back substantially not just because of his injury but because his coach is also struggling to find enough ice for Cody Hodgson, who is perhaps the best 10 mpg player in the league right now.

As far as his performance in the minutes given, Manny is probably playing the toughest defensive minutes of any player in the league right now and he is treading water in the plus minus department.

From a coaching perspective, having a 4th line you can consistently count on to eat defensive minutes with out giving up goals is an excellent tool and something I cant ever remember having.

Granted he's over paid for the role, but to imply that he isn't making a positive impact to the team over all is utter nonsense.
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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Beantown - 10am - Snet / NHLN-US

Postby Potatoe1 » Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:08 am

As for the game, I was out of town and could only stream the raidio so I only have 2 points to make.

1. The Canucks game plan, when executed correctly would see them have success in a playoff series with Boston. The problem last season was not the game plan it was the execution. There is simply no way you can go punch for punch with that team, and it doesn't matter who we add to our current roster. When you play the Bruins you have to poke the bear as much as you can, take your lumps, then score on the power play. That is the only way a team built around Hank, Dank, Edler, Hamhuis, and Kesler, can beat a team built around Chara, Horton, Marchant, and Lucic. Adding perifrial toughness wont help their core is simply far tougher then our core and that wont change.

2. Cody Hodgson is clearly a very exciting piece right now. He has been making incremental improvements through the season and rising to the occasion in the most "playoff like" game of the season is incredibly encouraging. He may of course fall off but if he doesn't the Canucks are looking stacked.

He has 21 points in his last 31 games (56 over 82 pace) while playing 9-12 mpg, mostly with bottom6 talent. That is incredibly good production in relation to role and ice time, and something you rarely see from any NHL player let alone a rookie.

Very few teams win a cup with out some young players rising up and giving them a major push, last year it was Brad Marchant for the Bruins, the year before it was a number of guys for the Hawks. Cody is looking like that guy for the Canucks, but we'll see.
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