GDT: Canucks @ Beantown - 10am - Snet / NHLN-US

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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Beantown - 10am - Snet / NHLN-US

Post by Hockey Widow » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:22 pm

porp wrote:I really don't understand the *hate* on MM - has everyone forgotten his dominance in the FO before his injury? Sure, he's not playing nearly as well right now, but he's still probably a leader in the dressing room and definitely a player we'll want in the playoffs especially once he gets back into form/learn to compensate for his disability.

Totally sympathize with all of the angst about the Canucks being cheapshotted all the time. Maybe it's a compliment - the feeling around the league is that the 'nucks can't be beat without cheapshotting and generally playing dirty. When was the last time another team tilted the 'nucks acting like white knights at an Arthurian tournament? And won?

Personally, I suspect that Mike Gillis' ego is SOOOO fucking enormous that he wants to be inducted into the HHOF as a builder - a GM who changed the 'modern' NHL (back) into a game of skill and sportsmanship. By building the Canucks this way and making his coach stick to hockey integrity, if MG wins a cup, or a couple/few cups, other teams will try to follow the template, and hopefully the rest of the league swings along into the pure-skill template.

You should go post this on Calpuke so we can all go in and watch the explosion! :D
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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Beantown - 10am - Snet / NHLN-US

Post by ukcanuck » Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:43 am

[quote="porp"]I really don't understand the *hate* on MM - has everyone forgotten his dominance in the FO before his injury? Sure, he's not playing nearly as well right now, but he's still probably a leader in the dressing room and definitely a player we'll want in the playoffs especially once he gets back into form/learn to compensate for his disability.

Totally sympathize with all of the angst about the Canucks being cheapshotted all the time. Maybe it's a compliment - the feeling around the league is that the 'nucks can't be beat without cheapshotting and generally playing dirty. When was the last time another team tilted the 'nucks acting like white knights at an Arthurian tournament? And won?

Personally, I suspect that Mike Gillis' ego is SOOOO fucking enormous that he wants to be inducted into the HHOF as a builder - a GM who changed the 'modern' NHL (back) into a game of skill and sportsmanship. By building the Canucks this way and making his coach stick to hockey integrity, if MG wins a cup, or a couple/few cups, other teams will try to follow the template, and hopefully the rest of the league swings along into the pure-skill template.[/quote]

interesting take on the motivations of GMMG. I dont know if its a humongous ego rather than that speed skill and straight dealing on and off the ice, are the only way to build a consistant winner. The redwings have been the template and the Canucks are following that lead. An example of the right way to treat people is right here in Malhotra, a free agent signing last year, what would it look like to potential free agents if we cut, parked or traded the guy now that he has lost a big chunk of his vision in the Canucks service. its akin to letting war vets suffer in roach infested V.A. hospitals when they are no longer of any use.
Its only been half a season for malhotra to adjust and he deserves the remainder of his contract to work himself back. In order to sign a new deal if thats in the cards for him. But for the canucks the only way forward is clearly what they have had success at and that is treating players and staff like they are human beings.

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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Beantown - 10am - Snet / NHLN-US

Post by Hockey Widow » Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:00 am

If Manny had no value he would not be playing. Loyalty is one thing but I do think he is being under valued here by some. He is not the same player he was when we signed him for sure. But I have to believe he is still of value or he would not have a place on the team.

By the way on an interview with Av i heard him say that the 4th line next game was Duco/Manny/Weise

I guess Lappy moves up to the 3rd line for now.
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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Beantown - 10am - Snet / NHLN-US

Post by wienerdog » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:07 am

RoyalDude wrote: I just want everyone to stop using the only excuse why Manny is soooooo valuable because of his face-offs when after losing two key face-offs in a row at a key point in the game, not mention his brain fart in letting his check go, the same guy who ended up putting the Bruins back to within 1 goal. That goal gave Boston life. Manny is overrated. I don't get the love for the guy. Of course, I know full well about the NTC with Manny, all I am saying is 'scratch the fucking bum'.
In the very same post in which you're complaining about people's mis-attributions of Malhotra, you call him out on a missed assignment; according to Lister, it's not even his mistake.

:hmmm:

I still haven't watched the game yet, but Lister knows his bloody shit, so I'll go with the 'cat on this one.

We get it. You want him gone. Everyone here is well aware. But FFS™, Manny can't be traded and MG's definitely not going to waive an FA signing like Malhotra.

We already had to endure a whole season of dead horse beating last year with Ballard - you going for an encore?

My suggestion: some Hendricks and tonics and maybe you can think of something else to entertain us with. :drink:

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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Beantown - 10am - Snet / NHLN-US

Post by wienerdog » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:14 am

tantalum wrote:It's like that Edler goal against the WIngs, there is no way to actually know if the push was what caused Hansen to go down or not the only thing the refs sees at full speed is the contact and Hansen falling. IT's a good call given what he saw (it would also have been a good call to wave off the goal and call incidental contact...could have either way). There was no need for the league to come out and say the wrong call was made because they have no idea from a replay what caused the fall.
I missed this - did the League itself actually denounce the call?

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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Beantown - 10am - Snet / NHLN-US

Post by Per » Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:54 am

Vpete wrote:How come Chara never gets taken to task for his post whistle chirping and cheapness?
Because he's a freaking giant.

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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Beantown - 10am - Snet / NHLN-US

Post by RoyalDude » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:28 am

wienerdog wrote:
RoyalDude wrote: I just want everyone to stop using the only excuse why Manny is soooooo valuable because of his face-offs when after losing two key face-offs in a row at a key point in the game, not mention his brain fart in letting his check go, the same guy who ended up putting the Bruins back to within 1 goal. That goal gave Boston life. Manny is overrated. I don't get the love for the guy. Of course, I know full well about the NTC with Manny, all I am saying is 'scratch the fucking bum'.
In the very same post in which you're complaining about people's mis-attributions of Malhotra, you call him out on a missed assignment; according to Lister, it's not even his mistake.

:hmmm:

I still haven't watched the game yet, but Lister knows his bloody shit, so I'll go with the 'cat on this one.

We get it. You want him gone. Everyone here is well aware. But FFS™, Manny can't be traded and MG's definitely not going to waive an FA signing like Malhotra.

We already had to endure a whole season of dead horse beating last year with Ballard - you going for an encore?

My suggestion: some Hendricks and tonics and maybe you can think of something else to entertain us with. :drink:
Weinerdog and Listerine, you're looking like a couple of dingbats here, please go back to the beginning of my post and not be lazy with your reading skills. The gist of my argument BEFORE I mentioned the checking assignment in which I may be wrong in blaming Malhotra but I still feel that he is apart of the blame in what maybe miscommunication between him and his D-man, he is the centreman in that situation, the captain of the ship so to speak, BUT ANYWAYS, my main argument was to squash all this hubub about MANNY and HIS GREAT FACE-OFFING, MR. IMPORTANT FACE-OFF GUY. If he had done his job, what you all said he is here to do, is to get all nasty in the face-off circle, Mr. big game face-off dude, non-choker in the circle and win those two face-offs, IN A ROW, IN WHICH HE DIDN'T, in our zone against Krejci, the man who gave Boston life again putting them back to within one goal, Manny may have done himself some favors and deflected the criticisms he is garnering of late.

There, how's that for straightening you to out, re-aligning you to my original argument, and for future reference do not skim read my posts, there are important things to be had in the fine print.
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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Beantown - 10am - Snet / NHLN-US

Post by Listercat » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:56 am

Dude you babble on and just dig the hole deeper.

Yes Manny lost 2 draws, we got that. It happens even to the best FO men. What's Manny FO % throughout the year? Still pretty damn good I believe.

The "gist" of your post is is that he lost the draw and then did not stick with his check. You obviously don't have a clue about how the positioning or checking assignments work in a 4v4 and you are trying to divert attention away from your gaffe in analysis. If i could I would draw it out on the chalkboard for you but you probably would not understand that either. The centreman controls the positioning of the players on draws based on what he is going to try to do on the draw. Manny was on his strong side so he tries to pull the puck back to the corner. Hammer would be positioned behind Manny to his left. KB3 and the winger are to the right. The winger goes to the weakside point man while KB3 should position himself to pick up any one coming to the net. The draw is lost goes back to the point, Hammer stays wide left and KB3 is high and to the right. Manny sees the puck going to his check, the strong side point man and moves to check him. Krecji simply filters through to the net in the gap between the D men. The shot comes through Cory can't handle the rebound and Krecji bangs it in.

There was no "miscommunication" here, the guys know what they are supposed to do if they win or lose the draw. This was simply a case of not executing.

You continue to slam a guy who has had a career threatening eye injury which I believe is still impacting his play to some extent. He was never brought here to play a large offensive role. He was brought in to fill the role of a key face off guy and he continues to do that. He has one of the top % in the league and takes many of the D zone faceoffs against the leagues top centres. He isn't perfect and I have yet to see anyone who is.

If you want to slam someone at least get your facts straight.
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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Beantown - 10am - Snet / NHLN-US

Post by Potatoe1 » Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:41 am

Almost every time Manny steps on the ice he it is to take a defensive zone draw against one of the opposing teams top 2 lines. Either that or he's killing a penalty.

He's had his ice time cut back substantially not just because of his injury but because his coach is also struggling to find enough ice for Cody Hodgson, who is perhaps the best 10 mpg player in the league right now.

As far as his performance in the minutes given, Manny is probably playing the toughest defensive minutes of any player in the league right now and he is treading water in the plus minus department.

From a coaching perspective, having a 4th line you can consistently count on to eat defensive minutes with out giving up goals is an excellent tool and something I cant ever remember having.

Granted he's over paid for the role, but to imply that he isn't making a positive impact to the team over all is utter nonsense.

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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Beantown - 10am - Snet / NHLN-US

Post by Potatoe1 » Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:08 am

As for the game, I was out of town and could only stream the raidio so I only have 2 points to make.

1. The Canucks game plan, when executed correctly would see them have success in a playoff series with Boston. The problem last season was not the game plan it was the execution. There is simply no way you can go punch for punch with that team, and it doesn't matter who we add to our current roster. When you play the Bruins you have to poke the bear as much as you can, take your lumps, then score on the power play. That is the only way a team built around Hank, Dank, Edler, Hamhuis, and Kesler, can beat a team built around Chara, Horton, Marchant, and Lucic. Adding perifrial toughness wont help their core is simply far tougher then our core and that wont change.

2. Cody Hodgson is clearly a very exciting piece right now. He has been making incremental improvements through the season and rising to the occasion in the most "playoff like" game of the season is incredibly encouraging. He may of course fall off but if he doesn't the Canucks are looking stacked.

He has 21 points in his last 31 games (56 over 82 pace) while playing 9-12 mpg, mostly with bottom6 talent. That is incredibly good production in relation to role and ice time, and something you rarely see from any NHL player let alone a rookie.

Very few teams win a cup with out some young players rising up and giving them a major push, last year it was Brad Marchant for the Bruins, the year before it was a number of guys for the Hawks. Cody is looking like that guy for the Canucks, but we'll see.

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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Beantown - 10am - Snet / NHLN-US

Post by Topper » Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:45 am

A few comments;

First Star, without a question of doubt, Ryan Kesler. In a game dominated by special teams play, the special teams leader dominated. Five on five, he proved once again why he has a Selke in his closet. The last time we saw a similar performance was the against Detroit (a better, more entertaining game in my opinion).

Vancouver's PK was as much a deciding point in the game as their PP.

The scrum - Burr taps a Bruin on the ankles with his stick at the Bruin gate, Thornton and Burr get sticks up in each others faces in retaliation, Thornton looses his cool and the melee ensues.
  • The league cancel of the Lucic game misconduct is because Milan entered the ice over the boards (I have yet to see a camera angle that does or does not show it) before he headed to the gate for the one foot on one foot off camera shot. He was on the ice when the brouhaha began. The guy who could have been tossed was Lapierre. He came on the ice and was engaged in the scrum before Henrik left the ice.

    Weise claims he asked and was surprised when Horton said yes. Credit to both for the sheer endurance of that match.

    The only guy Vancouver had on the ice who can handle himself in a fight was KB3, and he was smart enough to standby with Chara and watch the show.

    Officials got the minor penalties right.
Five on five, while the Bruin's controlled much of the play, Vancouver played a smart road game keeping them to the outside and limiting chances.

Nice shot by the rookie, even better pass by Hamhuis for what turned out to be the winner.Haven't seen a shot like that since Jannik Hansen vs the Preds in late November. Stu Hackell at SI recently wrote an article saying the slapper down the wing was a play eliminated from today's NHL except in rare incidences of odd man rushes and fast PP transitions.
  • I am impressed that the coaching staff has identified and worked with Cody to correct some the weakness's in his game. We haven't seen much minor league dipsy doodle since Foligno nearly took his head off.

    He has, as I pointed his need to do so, simplified his game. His shot past Tony Lydman and his most recent goal are testaments to that simplification.

    In his home town, with his grade schoolmarm in attendance (Question-has S_C seen a harder piece of wood since the night Trev took him by the hand?) Silent 3 finally discovered the boards. Ironically, the game before in Ottawa, he attempted a hit along the boards, in front of an ice level camera, the contact had all the force of a 16 year old boy kissing his Grand Mother on the lips.

    He still, as AV said in a recent interview on CDC video, plays sheltered minutes and often finds himself lost defensively or is caught leaving the zone early (Iggie bad habits, sans the talent). He is vulnerable on the road where AV does not have the last change and on the recent California road trip there were several attempt to exploit the matchup.
Congrats to Cory on stellar performance and more so for honestly earning the opportunity to start that game. I am still not certain on who I would have started, I get that Cory earned it and all the homecoming sentiments, but this is also a match up where No.1 plays because he is No.1. That said, I would not have been surprised, had Boston started Rask. Both teams enjoy stellar goaltending tandem with probable edge to Thomas over Luongo.

Marchand, I'd love to have this guy on my team, because I think he's young enough to clean up his act. Yes the hit was low and ugly. Deciding factors on suspension will come down to point of contact and the turn from Salo. You can not lower your body to make that hit. He he connected with his hip, he did not lower his body, and that will be in his favour. If he connected with his upper body, he then lowered himself to submarine Salo. The other factor is, did Salo turn immediately prior to contact? We'll wait for Ken Holland's decision.

Good read this week that relates to that game and Burke's remorse, Dryden's Fight vs Fighting article in the Globe.

Edit - Manny - Still one of the best faceoff men in the league and the luxury of he and Kesler on the ice for important defensive zone faceoffs can not be underestimated. the transition of Manny the centre to Manny the winger after a faceoff is never smooth. It was awefull with Cody and is better with Lappy, but still a problem.

If deemed needed, another tough guy who can eat 8-10 minutes a night without being too much of an embarrassment - Brandon Prust. Would the Rgs part with him though?
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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Beantown - 10am - Snet / NHLN-US

Post by Potatoe1 » Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:24 pm

Topper wrote: Nice shot by the rookie, even better pass by Hamhuis for what turned out to be the winner.
Uhh, not really, the shot was the impressive part of that play.

Cody beat the best goalie in the game cold. He has made that same play 3 times in 42 game, twice on Howard and once on Thomas.

He quite clearly has an eliet shot so credit where it's due.

(I know that's quite painful for you given your absurd history on this topic)

I am impressed that the coaching staff has identified and worked with Cody to correct some the weakness's in his game.
So I guess you were wrong then when you went on and on over how he should be sent down to learn in the AHL?

We haven't seen much minor league dipsy doodle since Foligno nearly took his head off.
We never saw very much of the "dipsy doodle" to begin with, this was just some nonsense made up by you.

Sure he held the puck too long on the Foligno hit, but for every play like that there have been several hundred others where he moved the puck quickly and efficiently.

His game is actually extremely efficient for a rookie, especially one with the type of pedigree he has.


In his home town, with his grade schoolmarm in attendance (Question-has S_C seen a harder piece of wood since the night Trev took him by the hand?) Silent 3 finally discovered the boards. Ironically, the game before in Ottawa, he attempted a hit along the boards, in front of an ice level camera, the contact had all the force of a 16 year old boy kissing his Grand Mother on the lips.
So now he doesnt hit hard enough, is that going to be your new angle to try and discredit this play. I know it's dificult if not impossible to find stuff at this point but hey the hole is already about 50 feet deep so you may as well keep digging.

That said I'm sure even you will admit to being completely and utterly wrong when you said we should trade this player in the off season before the rest of the league realizes how terrible he is.

He still, as AV said in a recent interview on CDC video, plays sheltered minutes and often finds himself lost defensively or is caught leaving the zone early (Iggie bad habits, sans the talent). He is vulnerable on the road where AV does not have the last change and on the recent California road trip there were several attempt to exploit the matchup.
His defensive game is fine when compared to top9 forward around the league. Obviously the Canucks have a higher standard, but Cody hardly requires "sheltering".

Of course Manny, Lappy, and Kesler are going to take the tougher defensive assignments but that because they are probably the best defensive trio in the league and it has very little with where Cody's game is at.

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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Beantown - 10am - Snet / NHLN-US

Post by Meds » Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:11 pm

Potatoe1 wrote:
Topper wrote: Nice shot by the rookie, even better pass by Hamhuis for what turned out to be the winner.
Cody beat the best goalie in the game cold. He has made that same play 3 times in 42 game, twice on Howard and once on Thomas.

He quite clearly has an eliet shot so credit where it's due.
I wouldn't go quite that far Pot. I will say he has the makings of having an elite shot, but it's not there yet. A player with an elite shot does that closer to 10 times in 42 games. His accuracy does appear to already be in the top 15-20% of the NHL, but the shot power isn't quite there yet.

Only time will tell, but from watching the last 10 games I'd say Hodgson is starting to turn into the first round pick we all hoped he would be. It is really tough to tell when he is playing behind two of the NHL's top 15 centers, but that kind of mentorship can only benefit Hodgson in the long run.

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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Beantown - 10am - Snet / NHLN-US

Post by ukcanuck » Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:35 pm

sniff sniff :scowl: it smell like fresh turds, so Claude Julien must be speaking again...

Hypocrisy is when a Coach tries to explain away the conduct of his player by trying to defame an innocent victim and then turns around and complains about a non existent throat slash. The bastard knows full well what a slash is, he sees them on a nightly basis from his own players. The same thing with their GM, whining about playing the media to influence opinions, nice job Chiarelli ya hypocrite, way to demonstrate what you mean...
The real shame in this whole thing is that people actually believe what they read and hear in the media and for some reason, our own Eastern Canadian media seems to be in love with original six teams and they play right into it...

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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Beantown - 10am - Snet / NHLN-US

Post by Potatoe1 » Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:37 pm

Meds wrote: I wouldn't go quite that far Pot. I will say he has the makings of having an elite shot, but it's not there yet. A player with an elite shot does that closer to 10 times in 42 games. His accuracy does appear to already be in the top 15-20% of the NHL, but the shot power isn't quite there yet.

No they don't.

You rarely see a player blow one by a goalie from that spot anymore, no one does it 20+ times a year.

Even doing it 3 times in 42 is amazing and frankly totally unsustainable on Hodgsons end.

As far as "eliet" goes, it depends on how you define it. I cant speak to your definition but that slapper in stride that he does is very hard, very accurate, and he gets it away extremely fast.

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