The BS Suspension Thread

[tantalum]

*sigh* I got my hopes up with Shanny in the pre-season, but damnit NHL discipline is still a joke.

Fire Shanny, hire Tant!!

Well Shanahan is better than Colon, but still a bunch of inconsistency. Most of that inconsistency comes from the reliance on two things:

-the call on the play. It really shouldn't matter if the guy got a 2 minutes, no minutes or 5 and a game. The guy played the game even if for only part of it and as such should not be taken into account. But if he hurt his team that night you say? So what. He did the deed and will hurt his team some more. Perhaps his team should start thinking twice about employing him.

-the injury. If you want to get rid of things take the injury out of the equation. Judge the play based on the violence and what it COULD have done or led to. Take a hit to the head...some guys have mush heads and will be knocked out for an extended period of time while another guy on a very hard hit may not suffer any injury. IN todays NHL the former play may receive the harsher punishment. If you want to get rid of the dangerous play, quit waiting for the injuries to occur.

Now seeing as I was given the job my first order of business would be to change those things. The next order of business is to get the NHL head office out of the direct discipline game. THrough the NHL and NHLPA negotiated CBA I set up a new system of punishment where guidelines are established for types of play and the resulting suspension. For example, hit from behind with no regard for the player gets you 3-5 games. You take repeat offender status into account (as they do now) and have different levels of suspensions for those players such that for the above the guy may be suspended from 6-9 games.

Given I am a NHL employee and as such must love to make videos I go back through the archives and find plays to illustrate how the new suspension guidelines would be applied to those plays. Put together numerous examples.

Then you take the entire damn package and give it to independent arbitrators who will be responsible for administering punishment based on the cold hard facts they have before them. It's what they do...emotionless analysis and decisions. THe only involvement the NHL has on a day to day basis is to provide the incidents to the arbitrators. That is something the NHL ought to be able to do as it is the one thing that the Shanahan regime seems to have done a good job on...reviewing plays.

To me the disciplinarian right now is so entangled with the league, players, GMs, media etc it is pretty much impossible not to be biased. Even if they don't think they are. I know people will say that you need people familiar with the game who knows what the players are thinking etc to make those decisions. First, I don't agree with that beyond a rudimentary knowledge of the game. Second, why can't an independent arbitrator be a guy who knows the game? It's just that the bias won't come into play because the arbitrator's career is based on eliminating there own biases and making that decision based on the evidence.

[dhabums]

-the injury. If you want to get rid of things take the injury out of the equation. Judge the play based on the violence and what it COULD have done or led to. Take a hit to the head...some guys have mush heads and will be knocked out for an extended period of time while another guy on a very hard hit may not suffer any injury. IN todays NHL the former play may receive the harsher punishment. If you want to get rid of the dangerous play, quit waiting for the injuries to occur.

I am really not sure how I feel on this matter. In real life, the result is taken into account all of the time. I think it's a bit simplistic to make it this cut and dried. 2 hits could look very similar, but one player may indeed do something to lessen the chance of serious injury, even if is very slight.

[wienerdog]

-the injury. If you want to get rid of things take the injury out of the equation. Judge the play based on the violence and what it COULD have done or led to. Take a hit to the head...some guys have mush heads and will be knocked out for an extended period of time while another guy on a very hard hit may not suffer any injury. IN todays NHL the former play may receive the harsher punishment. If you want to get rid of the dangerous play, quit waiting for the injuries to occur.

I am really not sure how I feel on this matter. In real life, the result is taken into account all of the time. I think it's a bit simplistic to make it this cut and dried. 2 hits could look very similar, but one player may indeed do something to lessen the chance of serious injury, even if is very slight.

I see the point, bums, but that's why there's murder and attempted murder. They're both penalized, even though one of them didn't "succeed". You get more for murder, of course, but attempted murder gets you plenty too.

Penalties should be meted out for serious infractions no matter what - the severity of an injury should simply result in extra "gravy" on top of a minimum suspension. It's the "no-harm-no-foul" mentality that is corrupting the disciplinary process right now.

It really boils down to whether they want to fucking protect the players or not. I mean, hell, it's not like the best freaking player in the world might sit out another entire season, so what's the problem, right?

[tantalum]

It's not real life so why treat it like real life? It's a game in it's own closed system and if players know that unless a guy gets hurt they will get nothing more than a slap on the wrist the driving force for the player to change just isn't present. Injuries are the exception not the norm and punishing the exception does squat. Punishing the norm...now you are on to something. All of a sudden a player is going to hold up when he sees a guys numbers. He's going to make sure he makes the proper contact. And, IMO, it doesn't take hitting from the game it takes reckless play from the game. And reckless play needs to be reduced.

[LotusBlossom]

Hmmm...Will Marchand be a part of this at some point this week?

*bump*

[dhabums]

I mean, hell, it's not like the best freaking player in the world might sit out another entire season, so what's the problem, right?

Salo will be fine.

[wienerdog]

I mean, hell, it's not like the best freaking player in the world might sit out another entire season, so what's the problem, right?

Salo will be fine.

lol...wut?

[LotusBlossom]

There is a hearing scheduled for Monday between Marchard and Shanahan. On NHL.com, it didn't say if the hearing was in person or over the phone.

This would be Marchand's third infraction. The elbow to Umberger last March, the slew foot last month to Niskanen and now this clip to Salo.

This is 5+ games worthy, let's hope Shanahan agrees.

And fuck Claude Julien's fat fucking ass for defending that shit on the ice.

[tantalum]

And fuck Claude Julien's fat fucking ass for defending that shit on the ice.

No kidding. My respect for the Pens organization increased so much more when they simply said what Cooke did was dirty and unless he changes he won't be a Pen.

[Jovocop]

And fuck Claude Julien's fat fucking ass for defending that shit on the ice.

No kidding. My respect for the Pens organization increased so much more when they simply said what Cooke did was dirty and unless he changes he won't be a Pen.

Given how Neely's career was ended, one would assume that the Bruins management should not be very happy with Marchand's antic. I guess business is business after all...

[Hockey Widow]

The Bruins got away with this shit all of most of last season and all of the playoffs so of course they are confused. If they had suspended Chara for his hit and Marchand for a few of his in the playoffs and then Lucic earlier this year they might be at the point of getting the message.

It was only a few seasons ago where the Flyers were getting suspension left right and centre. They cleaned it up pretty quickly. Now it was mostly Downy if I remember correctly but they had a rash of these goon type plays very early one season. The Bruins have been allowed to play this way and so they keep playing this way. They believe their own press clippings about being big bad and tough so they act it. As i've said in another post its too bad because they are a very talented team with great goaltending. They really do not need to play that way to win.

It reminds me f the year Anaheim won the Cup. They played the same way but their particular bent was running goalies. They had such a talented team that they really didn't need to play smash hockey but they got away with it. Since them we have seen some those guys since get suspensions but too little too late.

The consequences of the Marchand hit will be more clipping penalties to Hamhuis and Ballard. These types of plays will be scrutinized more now by the on ice officials.

[UWSaint]

I do not believe Marchand should be suspended.

First, the hit was not the sort the NHL is cracking down on (head, knee) or should be cracking down on (slew foot, spear).

Second, the principal point of contact was the thigh, not the knee or below. He got down, but not *way* down. Marchand is a short guy; he has almost no margin of error here.

I fear that if Marchand gets suspended, the hip check is all but eliminated from the game. A major was a stiff enough penalty for the infraction.

The good news is that it took a dangerous play for Salo to get hurt this year. Not a freak injury!

[Blob Mckenzie]

I believe he should be suspended. Salo was not carrying the puck and therefore it wasn't a hipcheck, but interference on a guy who was vulnerable. It isn't the same as a guy going low on another player carrying the puck. it was a cheap play from a cheap player.

If this is not a suspendable hit than neither is Aaron Rome's hit on Nathan (the superstar) Horton.

[Overtime]

Sami landed primarily on his shoulder then his head. I'm no medical professional but Marchands' manouver could and may have resulted in displaced cervical vertebrae. If his head had taken the primary impact it could have been more serious.
If it was a hip check and he was moving forward then it would have been easier for him to roll forward out of it.
In my opinion that "clip" should receive a serious suspension.
It's hard to justify any certain number of games for something so potentially dangerous and dirty.

[Listercat]

The Marchand hit cannot or should not be compared to to a "hip" check. A hip check has the checker going ass first into the player being checked. The player on the receiving end "knows" full well what is coming and can roll with the check.

Marchand was coming towards Salo at an angle, head first. He ducked under Sami and basically flipped him up and over with something akin to a wrestling move.

No player could possibly expect that situation and Marchand left Sami no way to protect himself. Sami expected to meet Marchand chest to chest or shoulder to shoulder, Marchand bailed.