Dec 29 - Canucks @ Disneyland - 7PM - SNET PAC

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Re: Dec 29 - Canucks @ Disneyland - 7PM - SNET PAC

Postby RoyalDude » Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:48 pm

Potatoe1 wrote: As to why they are trading him, I already said why, they are dumb. What kind of idiot GM trades a 24 year old who is already an established and consistent 35 goal scorer.



So that is why they are trading him, "they are dumb", you sound like the kids that go to my daughters elementary school here Pot, "I hate my teacher, he is totally dumb, and that is why my report card is soo bad, he's soss stooopid"?

Seriously Pot, if he is the GREAT Player you say he is, why are they truly trading him? A young player - 24, scores a bush-full amount of goals. Is truly because "they are dumb"?

If Ryan is as good as you say, if he is on the trade block like you say, then all I see is 'RED FLAGS'. I don't want to lose two key members on the face of the future of this organization in CoHo and Cory Schneider a top ranked young goaltender for a player that has gone from a 'a great young talent' to no 'longer wanted' in a matter of a year. RED FLAG, RED FLAG, RED FLAG!

What does it say about the importance of goaltending and hard they are to acquire, the Ducks are desperate for one. But you have no problem getting rid of such a valuable asset. What happens if Luongo gets hurt? Or starts playing bad again?

We got great depth at forward, and it doesn't need help especially at the cost of CoHo and Schneider. Why would you want to sacrifice our depth at goaltending to tinker with the forwards that don't need tinkering with????
Last edited by RoyalDude on Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dec 29 - Canucks @ Disneyland - 7PM - SNET PAC

Postby Potatoe1 » Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:54 pm

RoyalDude wrote:
Seriously Pot, if he is the GREAT Player you say he is, why are they truly trading him? A young player - 24, scores a bush-full amount of goals. Is truly because "they are dumb"?


They also traded Pronger and seem to be talking about Getzlaf now.

I think the "because they are dumb" argument fits quite well when it comes to the Ducks.
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Re: Dec 29 - Canucks @ Disneyland - 7PM - SNET PAC

Postby Potatoe1 » Sat Dec 31, 2011 1:19 pm

dangler wrote:actually the Oilers are a great example of turning things around with a new direction from the top,Tambellini. And they are well on their way to becoming a great team.
The difference in the way the two teams play the game right now is another tell tale sign.The Oilers compete and Anaheim looks disinterested.



The Oilers are 2-8-0 in their last 10 games and currently getting smoked by the New York Islanders. At this point their season is looking like a carbon copy of last year.

For the record I was being sarcastic when I brought up the Oilers.

Obviously it would be silly for them to start over, but the same goes for the Ducks.

You dont "re-build" when you have 4 or 5 all star level players under 26, you figure out what the problems are and try to fix them by adding good support players.

The Ducks had 99 points last year and that was despite a plethora of injuries. you don't rebuild a hundred point team because they get off to a terrible start the following year.
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Re: Dec 29 - Canucks @ Disneyland - 7PM - SNET PAC

Postby RoyalDude » Sat Dec 31, 2011 1:40 pm

Potatoe1 wrote:
dangler wrote:actually the Oilers are a great example of turning things around with a new direction from the top,Tambellini. And they are well on their way to becoming a great team.
The difference in the way the two teams play the game right now is another tell tale sign.The Oilers compete and Anaheim looks disinterested.



The Oilers are 2-8-0 in their last 10 games and currently getting smoked by the New York Islanders. At this point their season is looking like a carbon copy of last year.

For the record I was being sarcastic when I brought up the Oilers.

Obviously it would be silly for them to start over, but the same goes for the Ducks.

You dont "re-build" when you have 4 or 5 all star level players under 26, you figure out what the problems are and try to fix them by adding good support players.

The Ducks had 99 points last year and that was despite a plethora of injuries. you don't rebuild a hundred point team because they get off to a terrible start the following year.


If Lowe and Tambellini go another year, tanking it, without making any attempts to improving the team with more vets, with a win now mentallity, they should be fired. Or the high draft pick they end up with should be taken away.
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Re: Dec 29 - Canucks @ Disneyland - 7PM - SNET PAC

Postby dangler » Sat Dec 31, 2011 3:35 pm

Potatoe1 wrote:

The Oilers are 2-8-0 in their last 10 games and currently getting smoked by the New York Islanders. At this point their season is looking like a carbon copy of last year.

For the record I was being sarcastic when I brought up the Oilers.

Obviously it would be silly for them to start over, but the same goes for the Ducks.

You dont "re-build" when you have 4 or 5 all star level players under 26, you figure out what the problems are and try to fix them by adding good support players.

The Ducks had 99 points last year and that was despite a plethora of injuries. you don't rebuild a hundred point team because they get off to a terrible start the following year.

Your absolutely right on all counts,..................except the rebuild part.
While the Ducks have by no means hit a rock bottom level that Edmonton or the leafs hit,they definately have numerous ailments that need servicing NOW while they still have those 4-6 all-star players and are fresh off a 100 point season.
Bringing Bodreau in right after getting canned in Washington(another team with 4 or more allstars) tells me the management is suspect ,IMHO :lol:

Watching them play the other night,I wasn't getting the feeling that the players were that inspired by the new coach.


An engine won't run properly unless ALL the parts are functioning properly and the Ducks need a new mechanic :cheers:
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Re: Dec 29 - Canucks @ Disneyland - 7PM - SNET PAC

Postby Potatoe1 » Sat Dec 31, 2011 4:04 pm

RoyalDude wrote:If Lowe and Tambellini go another year, tanking it, without making any attempts to improving the team with more vets, with a win now mentallity, they should be fired. Or the high draft pick they end up with should be taken away.


What makes you think they are Tanking?

They are playing almost to the cap, the picked up a big Salary in Ryan Smith.

The Oilers just aren't a very good team.

They have 3 excellent young forwards, and not much else.
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Re: Dec 29 - Canucks @ Disneyland - 7PM - SNET PAC

Postby RoyalDude » Sat Dec 31, 2011 4:11 pm

Potatoe1 wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:If Lowe and Tambellini go another year, tanking it, without making any attempts to improving the team with more vets, with a win now mentallity, they should be fired. Or the high draft pick they end up with should be taken away.


What makes you think they are Tanking?

They are playing almost to the cap, the picked up a big Salary in Ryan Smith.

The Oilers just aren't a very good team.

They have 3 excellent young forwards, and not much else.


They can move players, pot pourri. They seem to have this notion of trying to build the next Gretzky, Messier, Coffey, Fuhr dynasty there so they refuse to give up something (a part of their youth) to get something. They have the pieces to play with to entice a trade for some veteren 'win now help', ie Paarvii, Omark, Gagne, Hemsky and this years draft pick. There is enough in that group to fix their defense. I'd trade anybody on that team who isn't named Nugent Hopkins, Hall and Eberle.
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Re: Dec 29 - Canucks @ Disneyland - 7PM - SNET PAC

Postby Larry Goodenough » Sat Dec 31, 2011 4:25 pm

dangler wrote:actually the Oilers are a great example of turning things around with a new direction from the top,Tambellini. And they are well on their way to becoming a great team.
The difference in the way the two teams play the game right now is another tell tale sign.The Oilers compete and Anaheim looks disinterested.


Hold on there - if you've watched the documentary "Oil Change" on TSN, Kevin Lowe is right in the middle of all player decisions. Tambellini was looking over at him during all group discussions on players. In no way does it look like a "New direction".

With that being said, Kevin Lowe and his management team have absolutely no record of developing anyone of significance over the last 10 years.

I offer you the names : Gagner, Cogliano, Smid, Schremp, Pouliot, Nilsson, Gilbert, Pitkanen, Penner, Brule, Dubnyk, Niniimaki, O'Sullivan, Foster. All guys drafted in the 1st round by Edm or aquired as young players. All were thought to have had significant potential, yet all died on the vine while under Kevin Lowe's watch.

In no way does the Oilers record show they are on their way to becoming a great team. It shows they quit (sorry, rebuilt) and have accumulated some top picks with potential. However, the evidence is right there - potential that rots when in Oil Country. The question is can these new young players succeed despite the Oilers. We'll have to see. So far the results in the standings show it's the same old....
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Re: Dec 29 - Canucks @ Disneyland - 7PM - SNET PAC

Postby Potatoe1 » Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:01 pm

RoyalDude wrote:They can move players, pot pourri. They seem to have this notion of trying to build the next Gretzky, Messier, Coffey, Fuhr dynasty there so they refuse to give up something (a part of their youth) to get something. They have the pieces to play with to entice a trade for some veteren 'win now help', ie Paarvii, Omark, Gagne, Hemsky and this years draft pick. There is enough in that group to fix their defense. I'd trade anybody on that team who isn't named Nugent Hopkins, Hall and Eberle.


Who are they going to move?

Other then their big 3, the rest of their young players have regressed drastically.

Omark and Paarvii have flopped this season, Gange is looking to have a 5th straight 40 point year (while at the same time being small, soft and weak defensively).

Hemsky is playing like crap, and is always hurt.

Their draft pick has value but right now it's way to risky to trade it.

The problem with the Oilers is that they keep drafting offensive minded, skill forwards.

Offensive minded forwards need power play time, top 6 minutes, and good line mates to develop.

Every time they add a guy like Hall or Eberle it pushes one of their other offensive players down the depth chart and they start to stagnate. They are depreciating their own assets by having such a bad mix, and by being so terrible for such a long time.

The Oilers haven't drafted or developed any quality defenseman or role players. That is why they are so far from being competitive, and whey they look nothing like the Chicago team from a few years back.

They have their Kane, Towes, and Hossa but they dont have their Keith, Seabrook, Bolland, Brower, Ladd, Versteeg, Byfuglen etc.

The Oilers right now likely a few years from being a good team and literally miles from being the cup contender everyone is stressing over.
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Re: Dec 29 - Canucks @ Disneyland - 7PM - SNET PAC

Postby Meds » Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:06 pm

If you take a look at the Ducks you have 3 all-star forwards and a 4th forward who still deserves consideration as an all-star in Selanne. After that the talent thins out considerably. Worse still when Koivu and Blake are in the IR.

When you shift your gaze to the blueline you have Visnovsky and Beauchemin as your top pairing and Lydman as your #3. Pretty weak. Visnovsky is good enough to be a #2 guy on 90% of the teams in the league, but other than him they are a crew of #3 dmen. Fowler is a good prospect, but he is still developing.

In net you have the Hiller and Ellis, the former being a legitimate starter and the latter a up and down backup who is often better suited to playing in the AHL.

So in summary, you have 3 all-stars and a young defenseman with potential. And btw, the all-stars in question are actually trailing the savvy Selanne in points.

The team is 26th in GA and 28th in GF to make them a staggering (league worst) -35 differential. The team has a new coach, which takes some adjusting to, particularly when they are going from the Carlyle style of thuggery which, shock of shocks, has them sitting top 5 in times short-handed, to a faster, offense-first, style that Boudreau used in Washington. It also doesn't help when your "top 2 players" are also the guys who are leading the team in PIM.

The Ducks have no balance in their lineup. They know this, that's why they are considering shopping around Bobby Ryan (and apparently Getzlaf now?). Either of those guys could bring a return of a solid 2nd-line forward and a #2 dman. Their salaries are quite managable. For the record I think they would be complete fools if they traded Getzlaf because after him they get very shallow down the middle. Ryan would be the best choice, replacing a winger with a 2nd line center and a defenseman who can play (responsible) top pairing minutes is a win-win for Anaheim. They could probably even get a draft pick or prospect in that trade.

In all seriousness, I think that one of the best trading partners that Anaheim could target would be Nashville. They just extended Rinne, their best player is RFA at the end of the year, and we know that Weber is only going to sign longterm with the Preds if management there commits to footing the bill to put together a contender. I'm certain that Nashville wants to keep Weber in the organization, so what better way to start than by bringing in a guy like Ryan to start building a more threatening offense. So why not approach Nashville and offer them Bobby Ryan (who just signed a new multi-year deal) for Suter (who is going to be UFA), and Colin Wilson or Patrik Hornqvist. If Nashville is smart they will counter and give up both Wilson and Hornqvist and ask for Ryan and Sbisa. That is a win-win trade. It gets Nashville some offense and some future on the blueline, while demonstrating a willingness to build a winner that helps keep Weber while making room for his new contract. Anaheim rounds out their forwards and gets better on defense.

Ok, now I've rambled and rabbit-trailed.....but Anaheim's season is a wash at this point. They are on pace for a little better than 64 points on the year, even if they were to win their next 5 and hit the 41 game mark at 36 points that still only puts them on pace for 72 points. They should make the trade at the deadline when their season is in the tank, play out for a lottery pick (weak as the draft class may be this year comparatively), and then make a big splash in the off-season when they end up looking at somewhere in the neighborhood of $22M worth of cap space.
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Re: Dec 29 - Canucks @ Disneyland - 7PM - SNET PAC

Postby Meds » Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:31 pm

RoyalDude wrote:They can move players, pot pourri. They seem to have this notion of trying to build the next Gretzky, Messier, Coffey, Fuhr dynasty there so they refuse to give up something (a part of their youth) to get something. They have the pieces to play with to entice a trade for some veteren 'win now help', ie Paarvii, Omark, Gagne, Hemsky and this years draft pick. There is enough in that group to fix their defense. I'd trade anybody on that team who isn't named Nugent Hopkins, Hall and Eberle.


I'm really not sure who you could bring in that would help that team "win now". They need blueliners badly, but their last two go-rounds with stud dmen went south on them in a hurry. Pronger wanted out, either because he couldn't keep it in his pants and got caught or because both he and his wife hated the city of Edmonton and it's useless rumor mill. Souray was injury prone and by the time he entered his second season in Oiltown he was having problems with the management and coaching staff, he eventually gets waived and sent to the AHL.

They just brought Smyth back this year to help some of the younger players develop, but honestly, outside of being an attitude coach, what is a career grinding crease camper going to teach guys like Eberle, RNH, and Hall? Nugent-Hopkins is already halfway to matching Smyth's best year ever, and he's a rookie who hasn't even played half a season yet. I love that they brought Smyth back home to finish his career, but they need to re-evaluate the type of vets they are bringing in if they want to win any time soon.
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Re: Dec 29 - Canucks @ Disneyland - 7PM - SNET PAC

Postby dhabums » Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:45 pm

dangler wrote:actually the Oilers are a great example of turning things around with a new direction from the top,Tambellini. And they are well on their way to becoming a great team.
The difference in the way the two teams play the game right now is another tell tale sign.The Oilers compete and Anaheim looks disinterested.


How has Tambellini turned anything around? He's made #1 overall picks so far. Great job. This year he might pick 3-5 barring a lottery miracle. The Fail for Nail campaign is ramping up!

The thing about the Oil is they have a couple of years to really do something before all of their young guys need new contracts. Then what? Sign some free agents? I think we saw this movie a few years ago with the last group of young guns.
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Re: Dec 29 - Canucks @ Disneyland - 7PM - SNET PAC

Postby Strangelove » Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:54 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:
Strangelove wrote:
Hockey Widow wrote:The Flyers did it when they let Clark go before he could ruin the team.


Image



I was waiting for you to pop up at that one! Hey I loved Clark when he played for Team Canada but hated him as a Flyer. Of course back then I was a faithful Leafs fan and the Broad Street Bullies regularly beat up my Leafs. I remember them going ape shit over Salming several times. The poor Swede didn't know what to do but turtle.


Oh I see, didn't know you were once a Leafer there ole gal! Of course all Leafers... & ex-Leafers... hate my Clarkie. And hey the feelings were mutual! As a matter of fact, one of the things that drew me to Clarkie in the first place was his hatred of all things Leaf. He HATED them! Them and commies. ;)

Hey y'had to love how his first move once being named GM was: lead ex-arch-nemesis Sittler to believe he was about to replace him as captain of the Flyers (Darryl had his acceptance speech in his pocket) and then proceed to announce that Darryl Sittler has just been traded (for Murray Craven). :santa:

Love the guy. Great player, great captain, great GM.

A regular Canadian hockey icon! :D

But let's not look back HW: HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!
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