Luongo/Hodgson/Raymond for Lecavlier/Hedman/Downie theory

Welcome to the main forum of our site. Anything and everything to do with the Vancouver Canucks is dicussed and debated here.

Moderator: Referees

Re: Luongo/Hodgson/Raymond for Lecavlier/Hedman/Downie theor

Postby Strangelove » Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:43 pm

RoyalDude wrote:This paragraph is just plain false

mis-information

Pure propaganda.

Outrageous and preposterous


Image

You forgot egregious! :lol:

C'mon Dude, do you really love waiver-wire Grabner this much?? :hmmm:
____
"I like to think that this team can get its mojo back" - Ryan Miller
User avatar
Strangelove
CC Legend
 
Posts: 6914
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2004 1:13 pm

Re: Luongo/Hodgson/Raymond for Lecavlier/Hedman/Downie theor

Postby RoyalDude » Fri Dec 23, 2011 8:40 pm

tantalum wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:This paragraph is just plain false, and simply the opinion of someone still trying to defend the Ballard trade by throwing said player - Grabner under the bus with mis-information to help deflect criticism away from Keith Ballards inconsistency in play. Pure propaganda. Outrageous and preposterous your views on Grabners current state of game. 10 goals is quality especially for a player historically known as a slow starter. If you don't know the meaning of slow starter, see Roberto Luongo. Machine Gun Grabner is just warming up. He is about to turn into Michael Gatling Gun Grabner. Goals galore, keep your head down, watch out, the twine will be bulging, the mesh rippling for Gatling Gun Grabner on Long Isle there.


No it is not plain false. He has played quite poorly this year. Completely on the perimeter. Been removed from the first PP unit.

-3 tonight with Islander fans calling for him to be benched next game btw. A complete non-factor in the two periods I watched of that game (I watch many Islander games...for some reason I have a soft spot for them from when I lived a stones throw from the Island for a couple years).

He's on pace for under 40 points. That isn't a great deal of quality. Yes slow starter every single year. Except when it's nearly game 40 it is no longer a slow start is it? Hey maybe he'll warm up when the Isles are completely out of it like last year.

I will not go into the reasoning for the Ballard trade you know darn well why it was made and why Grabner was included....Sedin, Burrows, Higgins, Booth, Raymond and Hansen are all at a minimum equal players than Grabner (I think they are superior players when all is considered). He was expendable then (without Booth and Higgins) and is even more so now.


Tant, you are a great Canuck Man, but you're opinions are biased against Grabner and Raymond, always has been and so because of that I have a hard time with your opinions on those players cause I think sometimes your vision is greatly marred by your general overall disliking of those two said players. I don't for one second believe you have even seen one game of the NY Islanders this year which is why I am of the opinion that your views are dangerous and pure propaganda regarding Grabner. Other than that I have the utmost respect for your Canuck Insight.
"I just want to say one word to you. Just one word. Are you listening? - Plastics." - The Graduate
User avatar
RoyalDude
CC Legend
 
Posts: 4292
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:36 pm
Location: Vancouver

Re: Luongo/Hodgson/Raymond for Lecavlier/Hedman/Downie theor

Postby tantalum » Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:58 pm

Believe what you like.
User avatar
tantalum
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 1911
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 3:41 am
Location: Carl Junction, MO

Re: Luongo/Hodgson/Raymond for Lecavlier/Hedman/Downie theor

Postby RoyalDude » Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:31 pm

tantalum wrote:Believe what you like.


But what I believe is the truth. You have an agenda regarding Gatling Gun Grabner and Raymond, and that is fine, I hate certain players as well. I know how terrible it feels, the anguish, to see players you hate playing well when all you want from them is to fail miserably. That being said Tant, you are a good hockey man.
"I just want to say one word to you. Just one word. Are you listening? - Plastics." - The Graduate
User avatar
RoyalDude
CC Legend
 
Posts: 4292
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:36 pm
Location: Vancouver

Re: Luongo/Hodgson/Raymond for Lecavlier/Hedman/Downie theor

Postby ESQ » Sat Dec 24, 2011 11:22 am

RoyalDude wrote: You have an agenda regarding Gatling Gun Grabner...


Um, wait, who has the agenda?

And FWIW, I doubt anybody would ever lie about watching a NYI game.

Its unfortunate for Grabner though, I think had he stuck with the Canucks organization he'd be a far better player for it. He wouldn't have gotten the huge contract this year for the big numbers last year, but he would have had solid, steady progression like we'd been seeing. Now, on the NYI, he's apparently taken a big step back.
ESQ
CC 1st Team All-Star
 
Posts: 652
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:34 pm

Re: Luongo/Hodgson/Raymond for Lecavlier/Hedman/Downie theor

Postby zephyr » Sat Dec 24, 2011 11:36 am

oh dear, you guys just play right into his trap. RD can say whatever he wants now because there are no longer records of the days he said grabner would never score a goal in the NHL, hodgson's back and slow skating were going to yield him a bust, and raymond was too soft and perimeter to ever be a viable secondary scoring option.

everyone sucks until they are good. the few times he strays from that philosophy:

connauton for 2010-11 calder!
zephyr
AHL Prospect
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 6:23 pm

Re: Luongo/Hodgson/Raymond for Lecavlier/Hedman/Downie theor

Postby ukcanuck » Sun Dec 25, 2011 6:45 am

zephyr wrote:oh dear, you guys just play right into his trap. RD can say whatever he wants now because there are no longer records of the days he said grabner would never score a goal in the NHL, hodgson's back and slow skating were going to yield him a bust, and raymond was too soft and perimeter to ever be a viable secondary scoring option.

everyone sucks until they are good. the few times he strays from that philosophy:

connauton for 2010-11 calder!

I remember the prognostication around cannot ton
User avatar
ukcanuck
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 2286
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:04 am

Re: Luongo/Hodgson/Raymond for Lecavlier/Hedman/Downie theor

Postby ESQ » Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:44 am

Tampa's season in serious jeopardy with injuries to leading defencemen Hedman and Brewer: http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/lightning ... es-big-hit

So is this the time to package Schneider and Ballard? Hedman is a non-starter, Lecavalier won't waive his NMC, so who's left? I've already said I'm a big Downie fan, I have also liked Teddy Purcell after his insane scoring pace in the playoffs last year.
ESQ
CC 1st Team All-Star
 
Posts: 652
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:34 pm

Re: Luongo/Hodgson/Raymond for Lecavlier/Hedman/Downie theor

Postby Fred » Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:01 pm

ESQ wrote:Tampa's season in serious jeopardy with injuries to leading defencemen Hedman and Brewer: http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/lightning ... es-big-hit

So is this the time to package Schneider and Ballard? Hedman is a non-starter, Lecavalier won't waive his NMC, so who's left? I've already said I'm a big Downie fan, I have also liked Teddy Purcell after his insane scoring pace in the playoffs last year.


Keep Schneider for now trade Ballard for a pick
cheers
Fred
CC Legend
 
Posts: 3433
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 7:00 pm

Re: Luongo/Hodgson/Raymond for Lecavlier/Hedman/Downie theor

Postby RoyalDude » Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:06 pm

ESQ wrote:Tampa's season in serious jeopardy with injuries to leading defencemen Hedman and Brewer: http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/lightning ... es-big-hit

So is this the time to package Schneider and Ballard? Hedman is a non-starter, Lecavalier won't waive his NMC, so who's left? I've already said I'm a big Downie fan, I have also liked Teddy Purcell after his insane scoring pace in the playoffs last year.


ESQ, enough with the Downie desires, he's a player that won't fit the make-up of this team, not too mention him being a bit of a Matt Cooke style player, the kind of players that AV hates. A player who will do things outside the coaches strict systems, a bit of a wild card. You saw and heard how AV criticized Torres for playing outside the teams game plan. Also, you are not giving up a bonafide superstar potential goaltender for a Downie, get over it. You can find plenty of UFA-Downies in the off-season. You trade Schneider you best be getting a star asset in return, otherwise don't fucking trade him. The Oilers went with the Fuhr and Moog, tandem for years, why can't we go with Luongo/Schneider tandem for a while? I don't see anything good for the Canucks in the Tampa system when talking a Schneider trade.
"I just want to say one word to you. Just one word. Are you listening? - Plastics." - The Graduate
User avatar
RoyalDude
CC Legend
 
Posts: 4292
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:36 pm
Location: Vancouver

Re: Luongo/Hodgson/Raymond for Lecavlier/Hedman/Downie theor

Postby dbr » Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:37 pm

I don't think you trade Schneider and Ballard for 'whoever you can get' - not saying you were advising that exactly, ESQ, but you don't deal Schneider in particular unless it's for a knock-your-socks-off type of return and Tampa isn't really in a position to do that.

Nevermind that you probably can't trade Schneider or Ballard without getting a player back to replace them, and Tampa's goaltending and defense are overpriced and generally terrible.

I guess the best case scenario I could think of is Tampa getting really desperate and dealing us Garon, Downie and Brett Connolly for Schneider and Ballard, and even then we'd have to make another deal with only a couple million dollars in cap space to get a defenseman who could replace KB4.
dbr
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 2478
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 5:37 pm

Re: Luongo/Hodgson/Raymond for Lecavlier/Hedman/Downie theor

Postby ESQ » Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:09 pm

RoyalDude wrote:
ESQ, enough with the Downie desires, he's a player that won't fit the make-up of this team, not too mention him being a bit of a Matt Cooke style player, the kind of players that AV hates.

I don't know enough about Downie off the ice, nor have I seen enough of him to be able to see whether he fits the make-up of this team. What I do see is a devastating physical player, who delivers massive hits, fights heavyweights, sticks up for his teammates (see Anisimov), and still has 25 goal upside. He seemed like a complete lunatic prior to the Philly trade, but I thought he had settled down a lot in Tampa.

I dispute that there are Downie-like UFAs every year. He's a young, physical, scoring winger. If they were a dime a dozen, we'd have one by now and we wouldn't still be talking about Marchand.

You trade Schneider you best be getting a star asset in return, otherwise don't fucking trade him.

When was the last time a back-up was traded for a star? Hell, when was the last time a goalie was traded for a star? Before the bizarre Mike Smith trade, the last one was Luongo. That's 2 in 6 years, not exactly a bull market. Halak netted two prospects after carrying the Habs to the third round on an RFA contract. Bryzgalov was waived by Anaheim. Lehtonen went for a 7-8 dman. Toskala went for draft picks. Anderson and Raycroft were goalie-swap trades.

I'd be okay with Roloson as a back-up actually, if we're talking about needing a replacement goalie. I'd be much more comfortable having him in the wings if Luongo melts down than Schneider, as Roloson does have pretty phenomenal playoff numbers considering the teams he's been on.

But the way I see it, the only way you get a star for a goalie is when you're dealing with a desparate team, or an unbalanced GM. If the return isn't there, then I agree you don't trade Schneider just to make room.

EDIT: I also agree that unless you know what you're getting with Downie, you don't go for him. If he's still a complete fakking lunatic, then no way. Definite due diligence required.
ESQ
CC 1st Team All-Star
 
Posts: 652
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:34 pm

Re: Luongo/Hodgson/Raymond for Lecavlier/Hedman/Downie theor

Postby BladesofSteel » Wed Dec 28, 2011 5:16 pm

Ryan Malone is the only player on Tampa that I'd be interested in acquiring.
The grass is always greener
BladesofSteel
CC 1st Team All-Star
 
Posts: 782
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 6:29 pm
Location: Lower left-hand corner

Re: Luongo/Hodgson/Raymond for Lecavlier/Hedman/Downie theor

Postby RoyalDude » Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:27 pm

ESQ, you strike me as someone savy enough to know that the toughest position to acquire 'franchise' like talent in, is goaltending. I would assume with your hockey-know-how have not forgotten the dark ages of goaltending in Canuck history which was between Kirk Maclean and Roberto Luongo and how mightily the GM's around that tried to fix that position to no avail. It's no secret around the league that the Cory Schneider is one of the 'top' emerging talents in that position. Gillis has gone on record as well as journalist like Bob Mackenzie that Cory Schneider is a highly sought after goalie that teams around the league have desperately tried to trade for. Gillis is in the driver seat here. The Colorado Avalanche gave up a top 5 pick to get the everso shitty goaltender - Varlamov out of Washington. Washington has a chance to land one of those Russians or that Swede Forsberg.

So most would not argue against the fact that Schneider has Franchise Elite Goalie potential, it isn't a stretch, you, I and the entire league have seen what he can do. So here you are trading Franchise Elite goalie potential for a 3rd line/4th line thug who only has what 5 goals this season? If you are trading Franchise Elite Goaltending potential my friend you best be getting back a skilled 'young' forward who can play on the top two lines and will help lead the next generation of Canucks into the future or a young top 2 Defensive Pairing Defenseman in return. It's simple math. You can fix the area of our team that your Downies fit into much easier and at way lesser a cost, the cost of a Cory Schneider.

Seriously dude, you do not waste a Cory Schneider on a 3rd line role playing thug in a time where fighting is dying, there is no fighting in the playoffs. The Red Wings have done quite well the last 10 years without Goonery and Thuggery. And don't give me that crap that a Downie would have been the difference maker against the Bruins in the Finals. The reason we lost was pretty much the entire Canucks line-up was the walking wounded and didn't have the luxury of the easy playoff travelling that the Bruins had prior to the meeting. We we were burned out. A healthy Vancouver team can beat a healthy Bruins team, IMHO.
"I just want to say one word to you. Just one word. Are you listening? - Plastics." - The Graduate
User avatar
RoyalDude
CC Legend
 
Posts: 4292
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:36 pm
Location: Vancouver

Re: Luongo/Hodgson/Raymond for Lecavlier/Hedman/Downie theor

Postby Fred » Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:55 pm

The only player Schneider will be traded for is a young skilled player preferably big that is just starting his career and has a big upside down the road. MG I believe is concerned about the Canucks future....his team. Right now this team is a Sedins team (previous management ) we don't have any one to replace them when it becomes a MG exclusive team.

There's not a lot coming along that you can describe as super stars and our chnace in up cominbg drafts are pretty slim
cheers
Fred
CC Legend
 
Posts: 3433
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 7:00 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Canucks Corner Chat

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Lancer and 3 guests