GDT Canucks at Senators CBC 4pm PST

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Re: GDT Canucks at Senators CBC 4pm PST

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:53 am

herb wrote:


IMO Gillis is trying to build a bottom six with speed, skill and two way play. When we had a fourth line that included "fighters" (Hordichuk and Rypien) it was a horrible experience that was dominated territorially and contributed zero offensively. Fuck me, that Hordichuk/Johnson/Rypien line was brutal. The current fourth line is miles ahead of that one.


I think if Rypien or Hordichuk had a chance to play with a decent centre they wouldn't look nearly as bad as they did when they played with Ryan Johnson. I wouldn't have played both of those two guys on the same line in the playoffs but if you had a guy like Lapierre playing with a Hordichuk and a guy like say Taylor Pyatt.... that could be a decent - good 4th line.

Some targets MG would hopefully look at that are upcoming UFAs are Taylor Pyatt, Jordin Tootoo, Travis Moen or even George Parros.

A 4th line of Lappy, Moen and Tootoo would be a real solid line come post season.
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Re: GDT Canucks at Senators CBC 4pm PST

Postby Jovocop » Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:54 am

Island Nucklehead wrote:
tantalum wrote:Now if we're talking about a guy who can be a significant physical presence on the 4th line while 9-10 minutes on a championship caliber team or a regular third pairing D-man playing 15 minutes a night while feeding the opposition his stick in front of the net of course the canucks should be interested in that just like every other team. But that isn't a Janssen or Boll or Eager or Boulton who can't even play regular minutes on bad teams.


I agree in principle, but let's not forget that guys like Eager, Godard, Shawn Thornton (twice), Darren McCarty and George Parros have all won Cups since the lockout.


Thornton, McCarty, and even Parros are tough guys with brains. They hardly did anything stupid to hurt their teams. Eager is one of those goons that I do not want to see on the Canucks. Besides, the Hawks won the cup had only a little to do with Eager.
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Re: GDT Canucks at Senators CBC 4pm PST

Postby Jovocop » Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:58 am

Blob Mckenzie wrote:I think if Rypien or Hordichuk had a chance to play with a decent centre they wouldn't look nearly as bad as they did when they played with Ryan Johnson. I wouldn't have played both of those two guys on the same line in the playoffs but if you had a guy like Lapierre playing with a Hordichuk and a guy like say Taylor Pyatt.... that could be a decent - good 4th line.

Some targets MG would hopefully look at that are upcoming UFAs are Taylor Pyatt, Jordin Tootoo, Travis Moen or even George Parros.

A 4th line of Lappy, Moen and Tootoo would be a real solid line come post season.


Moen is good but not Tootoo. That idiot will take stupid penalties at the wrong time. We want smart tough players not idiots.
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Re: GDT Canucks at Senators CBC 4pm PST

Postby Island Nucklehead » Sun Dec 11, 2011 12:49 pm

Jovocop wrote:
Island Nucklehead wrote:I agree in principle, but let's not forget that guys like Eager, Godard, Shawn Thornton (twice), Darren McCarty and George Parros have all won Cups since the lockout.


Thornton, McCarty, and even Parros are tough guys with brains. They hardly did anything stupid to hurt their teams. Eager is one of those goons that I do not want to see on the Canucks. Besides, the Hawks won the cup had only a little to do with Eager.


That's fine. If the Canucks ever win the cup it will likely have little to do with Dale Weise, or any fourth line player for that matter. I'm just pointing out that almost every team (don't think Carolina had one) since the lockout has had players known primarily as "enforcers" or "tough guys".

Having one hard-nosed guy capable of fighting and punishing opponents doesn't immediately make you an un-skilled team. Right now the Canucks lack toughness in their roster.
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Re: GDT Canucks at Senators CBC 4pm PST

Postby Jovocop » Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:01 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:That's fine. If the Canucks ever win the cup it will likely have little to do with Dale Weise, or any fourth line player for that matter. I'm just pointing out that almost every team (don't think Carolina had one) since the lockout has had players known primarily as "enforcers" or "tough guys".

Having one hard-nosed guy capable of fighting and punishing opponents doesn't immediately make you an un-skilled team. Right now the Canucks lack toughness in their roster.


After watching the game last night, I am not sure Neil is someone that the Canucks want. Moen might be a better choice. Anyhow, the Canucks might want to focus getting their defence bigger and meaner...
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Re: GDT Canucks at Senators CBC 4pm PST

Postby Potatoe1 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:22 pm

Uncle dans leg wrote: It's hard to watch your team get thumped like that, even in a win. The cave man in all of us wants our team to thump them back! Goals are pretty, wins are what we are going for but blood is what we want deep down!



I have to agree.

I really wanted someone to pound the piss out of a Senator last night but I was well aware it wasn't going to happen.

That said, the Canucks didn't look or play, like they were even slightly intimidated. I also doubt the hit's we saw last night would have been eliminated because we had a scrapper in the line up.

A guy who can fight a little would be nice, but what we really need is a 4th liner who can throw really hard checks. I would have been just as happy with a couple of crushing body checks last night and that's the type of "toughness" that makes an impact in the playoffs.
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Re: GDT Canucks at Senators CBC 4pm PST

Postby dhabums » Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:45 pm

Jovocop wrote:
Island Nucklehead wrote:
tantalum wrote:Now if we're talking about a guy who can be a significant physical presence on the 4th line while 9-10 minutes on a championship caliber team or a regular third pairing D-man playing 15 minutes a night while feeding the opposition his stick in front of the net of course the canucks should be interested in that just like every other team. But that isn't a Janssen or Boll or Eager or Boulton who can't even play regular minutes on bad teams.


I agree in principle, but let's not forget that guys like Eager, Godard, Shawn Thornton (twice), Darren McCarty and George Parros have all won Cups since the lockout.


Thornton, McCarty, and even Parros are tough guys with brains. They hardly did anything stupid to hurt their teams. Eager is one of those goons that I do not want to see on the Canucks. Besides, the Hawks won the cup had only a little to do with Eager.


George Parros watched the Ducks win the Cup from the press box. He was also had great seats on the bench and in the box to see a few first round games.
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Re: GDT Canucks at Senators CBC 4pm PST

Postby rats19 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:46 pm

Why don't our defense lay out forwards at the blueline like ohlund used to. Drive shoulder right into chest..lay those motherfuckers out..
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Re: GDT Canucks at Senators CBC 4pm PST

Postby Hockey Widow » Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:04 pm

tantalum wrote:But really, if people want to say the team is soft at least pick a game where they looked physically intimidated and not one they cruised to a 4-1 victory (and pick one where the #1 D-man wasn't out of the lineup, a D-men with a separated shoulder, a, a D-man with what was likely a bone bruise, a D-man with foot and hand injuries, a suspended D-man, a Selke forward with one good leg, a forward with a broken foot, a former art ross winner with a bad back etc...).



Great post Tant!

You mean a game where, in addition to the above, two of our 2nd line players were out with season ending injuries to go along with their centre's wonky hip/back/leg? A game where our 3rd line centre was playing the 4th line with one eye? A game where a 4th line player played with two cracked ribs and couldn't skate or hit for shit? You mean a game like that with all those injuries? Come on Tant you should know by now that injuries are an excuses for losers. All teams have injuries. Winners play through and find a way to win. And a goon would have punched someone and made all the difference. You know that. ;) ;) :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow:
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Re: GDT Canucks at Senators CBC 4pm PST

Postby BCReefer » Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:07 pm

dhabums wrote:
BCReefer wrote:
clem wrote:Where are those Weise doubters?

He can skate, he can move, he scores.


He is not signed to skate, move or score. His main job is to play tough, hit and fight.

Of course his goal helps but that is not what they signed him to do. MG really does need to address the 4th line and get anyone who can actually fight and win one.


Ottawa has 3-4 guys that can fight; remind me who won the game.


Not looking for 3 - 4 guys, looking for 1.

When Sedin gets hit instead of our tough guy fighting their tough guy I would prefer to see our tough guy hit their star player. I rarely (notice I did not say ever) see any retribution and come the playoffs year after year they put the whistle away so why would it be different this year?

A team must have more than just scoring goals, it is the little things that help and open the ice that allows your top scorers to do their thing.
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Re: GDT Canucks at Senators CBC 4pm PST

Postby rats19 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:10 pm

Somewhere I said of the 3 things which one cost us the series
Reffing
Goaltending
Injuries

I believe injuries cost us the cup..
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Re: GDT Canucks at Senators CBC 4pm PST

Postby BCReefer » Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:17 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:
tantalum wrote:But really, if people want to say the team is soft at least pick a game where they looked physically intimidated and not one they cruised to a 4-1 victory (and pick one where the #1 D-man wasn't out of the lineup, a D-men with a separated shoulder, a, a D-man with what was likely a bone bruise, a D-man with foot and hand injuries, a suspended D-man, a Selke forward with one good leg, a forward with a broken foot, a former art ross winner with a bad back etc...).



Great post Tant!

You mean a game where, in addition to the above, two of our 2nd line players were out with season ending injuries to go along with their centre's wonky hip/back/leg? A game where our 3rd line centre was playing the 4th line with one eye? A game where a 4th line player played with two cracked ribs and couldn't skate or hit for shit? You mean a game like that with all those injuries? Come on Tant you should know by now that injuries are an excuses for losers. All teams have injuries. Winners play through and find a way to win. And a goon would have punched someone and made all the difference. You know that. ;) ;) :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow:


Wow HW not holding anything back there?

Injuries (justified or not) have been the excuseof reason this team for the past several playoffs and no a tough guy would not have made the difference. Having Kelser trying to get revenge for a hit on Sedin's is not only stupid and a waste of his talent but also a good way for him to get injured.

Like I said (and others as well), having a tough guy who can hit hard and hold his own in most fights allows the stars to be stars. Someone takes a run at the Sedin's and we take a run at their star, maybe that would mean one less injury on the team.
Last edited by BCReefer on Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: GDT Canucks at Senators CBC 4pm PST

Postby Hockey Widow » Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:18 pm

BCReefer wrote:
Not looking for 3 - 4 guys, looking for 1.

When Sedin gets hit instead of our tough guy fighting their tough guy I would prefer to see our tough guy hit their star player. I rarely (notice I did not say ever) see any retribution and come the playoffs year after year they put the whistle away so why would it be different this year?

A team must have more than just scoring goals, it is the little things that help and open the ice that allows your top scorers to do their thing.



Reef a lot of that has to do with style. AV coaches the players to play whistle to whistle. When we play for retribution we get running around and off our game. Still do. When Lappy was brought in there was a lot of concern that he would not fit because of his propensity to yap after plays. AV said he knew the player and didn't think he would have any problem getting him to play whistle to whistle. And for the most part that is exactly what we get from Lappy.

I think most of us would like to have one player that could one punch and out in a fight but we also want a player that can take a regular shift on the 4th line and contribute in other ways. The team has been built for speed on 4 lines and the desire is to have punishing hitters. The rash of injuries to our 4th line players has put a huge damper on that plan, for that line. So to me MG did go our and address the issue as best he could but injuries have created the situation we now have.

If teams know we need/covet such a player do you think it will come cheap? What price would you pay for that player at this point? And what price will you pay deadline day?
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Re: GDT Canucks at Senators CBC 4pm PST

Postby BCReefer » Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:22 pm

I understand HW.

You know what, I just want this team to win a cup within the next couple of years so I can go into hibernation for a decade and spend more time on other things.

Sometimes I think this is all a plan by the NHL no Canadian team can win the cup so their fans don't leave, since we make up majority of the fan base.

PS - sometimes I must laugh at us, this is after a win and they won 9 of 10. Can you imagine this place if we were still out of a playoff spot :shock:
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Re: GDT Canucks at Senators CBC 4pm PST

Postby tantalum » Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:21 pm

I don't think anyone would contend the canucks wouldn't be better off with a hard-nosed, drop 'em when he needs to guy who can play a regular 5-on-5 shift in the regular season and playoffs. I just read a lot of panic about a game where the team wasn't intimidated in the least that the team needs a "fighter". No they don't. As with any team they need to improve on some positions and size, grit and toughness would be a good thing. But they can't waste a roster spot on a pure goon.

A guy like Shawn Thornton I believe played about 9 minutes a night in the playoffs. Perfectly respectable player who does those things. McCarty was the same and I may be wrong but he socred at a 25-30 point pace in the playoffs over his career (82 game pace). That's a good role player. A George Parros or Janssen or Boulton or Boll or Hordichuk etc? Nah. I would put Eager in the second list as well now, perhaps not a few years ago. First and foremost AV has to trust the guy to give him regular shifts.

Edit: Also wanted to mention that the thing that sort of pisses me off about the Foligno hits is that this is becoming somewhat of a regular occurence with him. I can accept that the Hodgson hit he didn't have much of chance to do anything. I don't accept that with the Kesler hit. He may not have been able to avoid the hit but he certainly had time to ease up on a guy in vulnerable position which is what players are supposed to do now. When you tack on his fine for a blindside hit to the head of Dwyer last year you have 3 head shots that I know about (and I don't watch the Sens). It would suggest that he's not 100% in control out their.
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