GDT: Canucks vs Predators | Dec 1 @ 7pm | SNET-VAN (HD), 104

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Re: GDT: Canucks vs Predators | Dec 1 @ 7pm | SNET-VAN (HD),

Post by Topper »

RoyalDude wrote:Holy shit Topper, I came on here to say that was a great game from Cody Hodgson last night. Are we watching the same player? He don't give up the puck that easy and sees the ice as good as anybody in the offensive zone.
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Re: GDT: Canucks vs Predators | Dec 1 @ 7pm | SNET-VAN (HD),

Post by damonberryman »

I tape the games out here in NY due to the time they start. Costs me a couple of bills to get the Center Ice package but it is a bargain. I did not plan on posting but I have to pass this along. i like the Cody kid. Liked him in juniour and I liked him in the World Juniour. I know he is not a speed merchant but we have those, such as Raymond who may play well with Cody. the kid has the ice awareness that good players have. We forget he is a kid with two years of injury. He trains with roberts this past summer and comes into camp ready. this is part of his appeal to me. He acts like a pro already. He is one of those Ontario kids who is born for hockey. It is easy to imagine his mother or father driving him to rinks all over the metro area at 5 in the AM. My brother lives out there in T.O. and did it with one of his sons. Talk about competitive! To make it to any of the big juniours you already have succeded beyond most peoples ability. It is that strong.

To the point. i certainly mean no offense but I was reading this really negative review on Hodgson. Because i read the threads and becasue it went against all the others on the same subject, I knew who wrote it before I looked at the name. Not trying to start any controversy here but when i feel the way about a player as this guy does about Cody, it usually involves something else. For instance, I really dislike Messier. I would not piss on his head if his eyebrows were on fire. I would have said head, but ...you know. I remember him breaking the jaw of a very talented Russian winger with a check that could have made radar on the local Air Traffic Controllers. Messier enjoyed it. I love talent but not his. He is everything I dislike in a man and a player besides being very good at hockey. For what it is worth, I wanted to mention that anything predictable by definition does not take into account the possiblilty of change. The posts are predictable. From what I have seen Hodgson has a lot to learn but he is doing just that. He may never live up to the unreasonable expectations this city's media put on him, but he is playing better as we go. he should play only as a center as that is what he is all about. Do not like to see him on wing and I can understand how he is percieved as not finishing checks. Instead he heads back to the play just like a natural center. Like I say, no controversy. I do not like it but normally this guy is sharp. I like his take but this constant predictability is not worthy. Also, it is not true.
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Re: GDT: Canucks vs Predators | Dec 1 @ 7pm | SNET-VAN (HD),

Post by tantalum »

Hodgson has things to work on I don't think anyone has EVER said otherwise. He has weak areas of his game but also strong areas of his game. You know like the vast majority of young players. He's a rookie on pace for 40 points on a team where he isn't going to get primo ice time. He is 6th in team forward scoring with only 13 minutes a game and getting shuttled from line to line and wing to center back to wing back to center. He has a good shot at hitting 20 or more goals in his rookie season (on pace for 16 right now). He's learning the game. Defensively he is sound enough and again learning. If he wasn't AV wouldn't keep him in the lineup or even with the big club. But he is learning and he is certainly not the worst defensive forward on the team this year while he has been one of the better offensive forwards! And guess what? He's a plus player to boot. I don't understand the complaints. I really don't. I'm not going to say he is going to be a Daniel Sedin when he finishes developing (hodgson possesses a better shot than Henrik and has great visions and passing skills...he's a bit of a mini-daniel), but he is on pace for a very similar rookie season. Sure he's a year or so older hockey wise than Daniel was, Daniel didn't miss a year with a serious injury.

I guess I just have to shake my head.
Last edited by tantalum on Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: GDT: Canucks vs Predators | Dec 1 @ 7pm | SNET-VAN (HD),

Post by LotusBlossom »

tantalum wrote:Hodgson has things to work on I don't think anyone has EVER said otherwise. He has weak areas of his game but also strong areas of his game. You know like the vast majority of young players. He's a rookie on pace for 40 points on a team where he isn't going to get primo ice time. He is 6th in team forward scoring with only 13 minutes a game. He's learning the game. Defensively he is sound enough and again learning. If he wasn't AV wouldn't keep him in the lineup or even with the big club. But he is learning and he is certainly not the worst defensive forward on the team this year while he has been one of the better offensive forwards! And guess what? He's a plus player to boot. I don't understand the complaints. I really don't.
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Re: GDT: Canucks vs Predators | Dec 1 @ 7pm | SNET-VAN (HD),

Post by tantalum »

RoyalDude wrote: The 2nd line only goes when Kesler goes.
Yes it does. When Kesler is playing well, all of a sudden the opposition has to devote some more resources to him and that is opening up space for Booth to use his speed and strength to get to the net with the puck. Same thing with Higgins.

Kesler is the star of the show, but Higgins and Booth are looking like they could be great supporting characters.
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Re: GDT: Canucks vs Predators | Dec 1 @ 7pm | SNET-VAN (HD),

Post by Topper »

tantalum wrote:where he isn't going to get primo ice time.
But he is getting primo ice time. He is the fifth centre on the team, but plays the third line except he is absolved from faceoff duties, he gets second unit PP time and is sheltered from defensive roles.

Why the kidd glove treatment?

While folks are handing out goat horns to Hansen and Bieksa, they should also be giving them to the guy who's gaff started the Preds comback. Why is Cody immune to criticism?

He is the softest player in the line up and and also the biggest floater in the lineup.
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Re: GDT: Canucks vs Predators | Dec 1 @ 7pm | SNET-VAN (HD),

Post by tantalum »

Topper wrote:
tantalum wrote:where he isn't going to get primo ice time.
But he is getting primo ice time. He is the fifth centre on the team, but plays the third line except he is absolved from faceoff duties, he gets second unit PP time and is sheltered from defensive roles.
He gets 13 minutes a game. That isn't primo icetime. He often gets that ice time in a position he had never played until this year. He gets offensive stalwarts Manny Malhotra and Hansen on his wings when he gets to play center. He gets absolved from faceoff duty because like MOST young centers he is lousy at taking them and there is someone better on the team to take them (that's called coaching). Of course he gets sheltered from defensive roles, there is a freaking Selke winner on the team! Again coaching. And no two ways about it Malhotra has been terrible this year. Hodgson should be playing center over Malhotra so far. LaPierre has a history of having his best play in more limited minutes. Once his minutes go up he loses his effectiveness within a few games. I know many question AV and his game plans or lack of ability to respond, but he has an inate gift of recognizing the best way to maximize the individual talents of his players.
Why the kidd glove treatment?
He's being treated like everyone else on the team. His skills are used on the PP but not on the PK where he wouldn't be as good. He has had to earn his icetime. When he does he gets more. When he struggles he gets less. When the dist settles he is better offensively that a large number of forwards. Guys like Volpatti and Malhotra routinely have bigger issue in their own zone this year so he isn't the worst defensive forward either. Really when talking about the canucks every forward is passable defensively or they don't play. Many other teams he wouldn't even be close to the bottom in terms of defensive play.
While folks are handing out goat horns to Hansen and Bieksa, they should also be giving them to the guy who's gaff started the Preds comback. Why is Cody immune to criticism?
Did anyone say he is immune to criticism? I've never seen it. But he is to be excused for lapses in judgement far more than an experienced veteran with 600 games under his belt. I can't believe you don't recognize that. And when he does make a mistake that the coaching staff feels was completely his fault he is demoted or misses shifts. Just like other young players under AV.
He is the softest player in the line up and and also the biggest floater in the lineup.
Floater? give me a break. Not even close. He gets confused sometimes but he is not a floater. Never has been. Not even in junior when he could put up points in his sleep. Where do floaters end up on an AV coached team? It certainly isn't in a uniform on game day unless you have the career achievements to suggest the floating will go away at some point (Samuelsson, Bieksa).

Soft? if you say so. I don't know why you expect that a 5'10" 175 lb guy is going to go toe to toe with a 6'4" 220lb D-man along the boards. He can't. He needs to learn how to use his positioning to turn pucks over and win board battles and I bet if you watch the last number of games and compare them to his first few games this year you will see a vast improvement in that area. You'll notice that when he has the pucks along the boards he quite often gets himself some space and makes a play so that part of his game is good. He also needs to completely trust his body/back and I don't think he is at that point yet.

Look I'm done. We get you don't like the guy and think he's the worst player on the team and that countless individuals should be playing ahead of him. But you really are pretty much all alone on that island. Usually that makes a person stop and think that they may be wrong in their assessment.
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Re: GDT: Canucks vs Predators | Dec 1 @ 7pm | SNET-VAN (HD),

Post by Jovocop »

RoyalDude wrote:
The weakness on this team is team defense, and sorry Topper, Cody isn't the reason we suck defensively. It doesn't help that you have Ballard, Rome and Alberts all dressing. With those 3 playing, our D must rank near the bottom of the league. Scarey, how noticeable Salo's absence is on this team. If there is a weak link on this team is our depth on D.
If you want to put Ballard in that group, you should also put Bieksa there as well. He was single handedly responsible for at least 2 goals last night. I do agree that Salo's absense was very noticable, especially when you had Rome as a replacement... How AV chose Rome over Ballard to replace Salo is beyond my imagination... :evil:
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Re: GDT: Canucks vs Predators | Dec 1 @ 7pm | SNET-VAN (HD),

Post by Topper »

Like it or not Tant, 2nd unit PP time is primo ice time. Maybe you should question his lack of PK time and why.

To say he is treated as others on the team is hogwash and you know it. We had this debate earlier. Every other Canuck prospect in the lineup earned their ice time working their way up through the line up and on the PK. Only the Sedins, who came into a much different lineup, did not start out on the fourth line, yet they still played regular PK shifts.

Does Hansen have 600 games under his belt? Does Bieksa have 600 games under his belt? Combined they don't have 600 games under their belts. Where did you pull that number from?

Was he the goat on the Tootoo goal, most certainly.

Did he bail out on the physical plays I noted, yes he did.

Is he caught bailing from the defensive zone early, yes he is.
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Re: GDT: Canucks vs Predators | Dec 1 @ 7pm | SNET-VAN (HD),

Post by Rumsfeld »

I know AV likes to green-light the defense but I'm getting palpitations watching Rome and Alberts pinching down low every shift like they're freaking Paul Coffey.

The chance of them actually contributing offensively from there is far outweighed by the chance of their team getting burned becaude they're too slow to get back in the play. Their offensive instincts are terrible and I'd rather see them stick to defense, especially in the third period of a tie game.

Both of our goaltenders gave up a softie but it was a weird game. Our defensive play wasn't really as poor as people are making out. There were a few terrible lapses but we didn't really give them a whole hell of a lot compared to what we were getting. We had way more chances and owned the Preds territorially but every time they got a chance it was either of the grade-A variety or they got lucky.

I expect a much tighter game from the Canucks on Sunday.
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Re: GDT: Canucks vs Predators | Dec 1 @ 7pm | SNET-VAN (HD),

Post by rats19 »

Topper is likely more right than wrong in his cohoing assessment. however i like the kid and thinks he will become one of our staples.....so that should pretty much end this discussion eh wot?
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Re: GDT: Canucks vs Predators | Dec 1 @ 7pm | SNET-VAN (HD),

Post by Rumsfeld »

If we can stay healthy in the top-9 (lol) we should be going after another top-4 defenseman at the deadline. A big nasty fourth-liner as well.
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Re: GDT: Canucks vs Predators | Dec 1 @ 7pm | SNET-VAN (HD),

Post by herb »

I only got a chance to watch the third period, but holy cow 6 goals on 20 shots is awful no matter how you look at it. Against the Preds of all teams too! Totally unacceptable and I expect that we will see much better performances from our goaltenders most nights.

We totally outplayed Nashville in the third stanza. It wasn't even close. Dank, Burrows, Hodgson and Ballard could have easily scored the game winner with excellent scoring chances.

How did the second line look last night? They didn't hit the score sheet and looked a bit disjointed in the third period.

Like Manny Ramirez, we have a situation of Kevin being Kevin here in Vancouver.

Ballard is looking more comfortable on the right side.

Jovocop - IMO, Ballard is playing with Alberts to avoid the dreadful Alberts/Rome pairing.

That was one lazy defensive play by Hansen on the gwg... :devil:
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Re: GDT: Canucks vs Predators | Dec 1 @ 7pm | SNET-VAN (HD),

Post by Hockey Widow »

Salo is very much the anchor on defence . When he is out we play like chickens with our heads cut off in our own zone. We do need another solid top 4 on the back end, of that I am convinced.

We dominated Nashville last night. We had them running around most of the night. It was an example of a game that we should have won and lost. But over the course of a year it balances out right? I mean there are games we win we have no business winning.

Just a disappointing result. Av was quick to pul Cory after the first. That was a knee jerk reaction because he desperately wanted to get Luongo in the net. I think if he sticks with Cory we win that game. He should have let the kid work it out and started Luongo next game. How many times have we seen him leave Luongo in after horrible starts? It was a reaction to the goaltending controversy that does not exist.
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Re: GDT: Canucks vs Predators | Dec 1 @ 7pm | SNET-VAN (HD),

Post by BladesofSteel »

Topper wrote:
tantalum wrote:where he isn't going to get primo ice time.
But he is getting primo ice time. He is the fifth centre on the team, but plays the third line except he is absolved from faceoff duties, he gets second unit PP time and is sheltered from defensive roles.
He is a pure offensive talent who is evolving as an NHL player. He's the best option at centre for the 2nd unit PP, which was average at best last year with Manny as the only real option. Cody is not a defensive specialist, nor is he the best option for that role with Manny, Lappy and Kes available to kill penalties.

Coaches MO is to put the best available players out against the specific opposing lines, while also administering said players into roles that best suit the system with the skill-set they each provide.
Topper wrote: While folks are handing out goat horns to Hansen and Bieksa, they should also be giving them to the guy who's gaff started the Preds comback. Why is Cody immune to criticism?
Hansen and Bieksa both made terrible efforts on the last play resulting in the respective goals. Those are often mistakes made by inexperienced players, not veterans who know better. Bieksa in particular has been consistently making lackadaisical efforts since the beginning of the year, uncharacteristic from someone of his intelligence, skill-set and work ethic. Had that been Cody in Jannik or Bieksa's position failing to take the man, he too would have received guff, but his mis-play wasn't nearly as detrimental as those of #3 and 36. Cody is in no way immune to criticism, but he is and will continue to make mistakes due to his lack of experience
Topper wrote: He is the softest player in the line up and and also the biggest floater in the lineup.
To be fair, Cody has no qualms about driving to the net or battling in the corners for loose pucks. Is it resulting in goals? Not yet, has he turned the puck over at times due to being out-muscled? Sure has. But if people are expecting him to drive d-men through the boards to earn puck possession (ala Lucic), or push guys away from the crease to gain a better scoring position (ie. Kesler), you are sorely mistaken. For the record, he has more hits than Hank and Dank combined, and even tossed 5 more than Manny. He ain't soft, but he certainly isn't going to intimidate anyone physically as it just isn't his game.

AV is the harshest critic his own players, in particular rooks and sophs. Ask Ballard, Hansen, Burrows, Raymond and Hodgson himself. If AV felt Cody was soft and floating, would he be averaging 13 min/game while manning the 2nd unit PP?

I think not.
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