GDT: Nov 23: Canucks @ Colorado - 6:30pm - SPac

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Re: GDT: Nov 23: Canucks @ Colorado - 6:30pm - SPac

Postby herb » Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:01 am

One of the few games this season that I've been able to sit down at home and watch the full 60 minutes without interruption.

A good, if not a bit greasy, road win. We were unlucky to not score more than one in the first, and lucky the Avs didn't score in the 3rd. All in all, it was a good effort and the type of effort that has been missing thus far.

The top line had an excellent game and were much better defensively. After a slow start, Burrows seems to be back on his game and has found his rightful spot with the twins. That was a nice, patient goal.

Kesler is one snake bitten scorer. He is playing very well, and appears to be back up to speed - except for when it comes to putting the puck in the net. I'm still not liking his long, low wrist shots from beyond the faceoff circle that are either easily saved by the goaltender or fired into a defender's shins, but his game is coming around. When he breaks out this team will finally wring off a few wins in a row. This weekend would be an excellent time to bump the slump RK17.

David Booth has looked dangerous on multiple occasions every time I have watched him play. He has had a number of clear looks that haven't resulted in goals. The goals will come and I'm confident he will find a role here. There is lots to like about this player including his work ethic, tenacity and those wheels are pretty good too. I'm still hoping his shot is as good as advertised as we haven't seen much evidence of it yet.

Hodgson and Hansen were excellent last night. The battled very well down low in the Avs zone and won many puck battles. Several times in the first period they were able to maintain pressure in the offensive zone with speed and closing gaps on defenders. If Hodgson didn't look so slow last year the thought wouldn't even cross my mind. Speed isn't an issue. Manny looked much more comfortable last night.

Kevin Bieksa WTF?

Tonight was the Canucks first win of the season without either Sedin recording a point.
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Re: GDT: Nov 23: Canucks @ Colorado - 6:30pm - SPac

Postby Corb » Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:55 am

It is kind of fun watching a rookie in the lineup. I think he's become the best passing forward not named Sedin, and I also find that he rarely gets knocked down (which seems to happen to rookies). Once his line mates learn that the puck could be on the tape, at any moment, I think he'll rack up more points if he can remains consistent.

I don't think there is any question of him being more effective at center - he needs to have the puck on his stick. I haven't checked how good he is on the dot, but I'm guessing not that great (so Manny as a winger seems wise). His first 3-4 strides are still terrible though, but better than last year.

Now, if we could get him killing penalties too, Topper might even be pleased.
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Re: GDT: Nov 23: Canucks @ Colorado - 6:30pm - SPac

Postby Benjo » Thu Nov 24, 2011 4:38 pm

BladesofSteel wrote:
Benjo wrote:Still baffled that Colorado traded away a potential lottery pick for an average goalie.

AFAIC, Gillis & co. can easily set the bar at a 1st and 2nd to rival GM's when Cory's name comes up in discussion. But let's face it, he's not going anywhere b/w now and March simply for draft picks.


I wasn't even thinking about Schneider but I would be happy if we got a first rounder out of a lottery team like Columbus for him. I'd also be just as happy to keep him or (depending on the player) trade him at the deadline to make a finals run.

My point was focusing on Colorado's choice which was why in the hell would you trade a first rounder (and potential lottery pick judging by last season) for Varlamov. He has had a short, injury riddled career and hasn't been anything better than average on a terrific Capitals team. The decision reeks of a Calgary-like desperation move to keep in contention just enough to make the playoffs when they could have picked up a guy like Yakupov in the next draft.

Looking at Varlamov's career on tsn.ca doesn't do much to convince me otherwise. He has never played more than 30 games and he has missed 40 games due to groin and knee injuries already. His best showing thus far was 09-10 with a 15-4-6 record and a .909 save % which doesn't seem impressive considering he was on Washington. Can someone tell me how this guy warrants trading a first round draft choice?
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Re: GDT: Nov 23: Canucks @ Colorado - 6:30pm - SPac

Postby wienerdog » Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:44 pm

Benjo wrote:Can someone tell me how this guy warrants trading a first round draft choice?


*leans against fencepost, listens to sign creaking in wind as tumbleweeds blow by...*
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Re: GDT: Nov 23: Canucks @ Colorado - 6:30pm - SPac

Postby dhabums » Thu Nov 24, 2011 6:09 pm

Benjo wrote:Can someone tell me how this guy warrants trading a first round draft choice?


No.
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Re: GDT: Nov 23: Canucks @ Colorado - 6:30pm - SPac

Postby Potatoe1 » Thu Nov 24, 2011 6:16 pm

Benjo wrote:My point was focusing on Colorado's choice which was why in the hell would you trade a first rounder (and potential lottery pick judging by last season) for Varlamov.



I agree, I would have loved to do that deal with the Av's for Schneider.

Can you imagine how cool it would be, to head into the draft lottery with the potential to win no1 over all?

I know it might have hurt us a bit in the regular season this year but all I care about is playoffs and your back up doesn't play in the post season.

Sadly however I don't think that deal represents the value of young goalies but rather just represents a dumb mistake by what is now a crappy organization.
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Re: GDT: Nov 23: Canucks @ Colorado - 6:30pm - SPac

Postby Island Nucklehead » Thu Nov 24, 2011 6:31 pm

wienerdog wrote:
Benjo wrote:Can someone tell me how this guy warrants trading a first round draft choice?


*leans against fencepost, listens to sign creaking in wind as tumbleweeds blow by...*



Well, for one he's only 23 (2 years younger than Schneider), he's played 74 NHL games (29 more than Schneider), and has very similar numbers to Schneider (.912/2.56 vs .919/2.46). I would expect a very similar return for Schneider if I were Gillis (potential lottery pick + second rounder), which is probably why we haven't dealt him yet... draft picks do nothing for us now while Schneider helps us currently.

Do we honestly think Schneider's numbers will stay the same if/when he's traded to a team like Columbus? Somehow I think not.

That's not really to say Varlamov is BETTER than Schneider (I don't think he is), but he's not nearly as bad as some are making him out to be.
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Re: GDT: Nov 23: Canucks @ Colorado - 6:30pm - SPac

Postby Rumsfeld » Thu Nov 24, 2011 6:34 pm

Varlamov had that one good playoff with the Caps but I remember him getting lit up pretty good there as well.
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Re: GDT: Nov 23: Canucks @ Colorado - 6:30pm - SPac

Postby damonberryman » Fri Nov 25, 2011 9:02 am

I enjoyed this game. It was finally nice to see a team that somewhat resembles the team from last year. I got a hunch the bullshit of poor efforts is not over yet. Hope I am wrong but I think they will do better going into the playoffs if there is some aspect of desperation in their game. Tough on the fan though. On another note, I watched the Buff/Boston game and I gotta tell you the Bruins are playing lights out. Lucic absolutely hammered Gaustad in a fight which is odd for me. We are both from East van. Does anyone know what part of East van he is from. Tech or Temp? How did he play in our backyard for all those years and he goes to Boston? Did we not learn about local boys going to Boston with Neely? Who did we pick ahead of him? Does anyone remember?
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Re: GDT: Nov 23: Canucks @ Colorado - 6:30pm - SPac

Postby Benjo » Fri Nov 25, 2011 9:39 am

Our first rounder was Grabner and our 2ND rounder was traded for Mika Noronen. Which Buffalo used to draft Jhonas Enroth.
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Re: GDT: Nov 23: Canucks @ Colorado - 6:30pm - SPac

Postby dbr » Fri Nov 25, 2011 10:17 am

Yeah the trouble with the idea that the Varlamov deal "set the bar" for Schneider's value is that it requires other GMs to be just as desperate and stupid as Greg Sherman.

I suspect this will be similar to how the Joe Thornton trade did not set the bar for the value of a perennial All Star who can dominate games.

Anyway, while it would've been cool to get a lottery pick I think really highly of Schneider and that Avs team could've potentially been good enough to just miss the playoffs.. even seeing them play now I think a player like Schneider would move their pick into the 5-10 range of the draft. At that position I'd probably be happier trading Schneider for a player a little further along his developmental curve.
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Re: GDT: Nov 23: Canucks @ Colorado - 6:30pm - SPac

Postby BladesofSteel » Fri Nov 25, 2011 11:06 am

dbr wrote:Anyway, while it would've been cool to get a lottery pick I think really highly of Schneider and that Avs team could've potentially been good enough to just miss the playoffs.. even seeing them play now I think a player like Schneider would move their pick into the 5-10 range of the draft. At that position I'd probably be happier trading Schneider for a player a little further along his developmental curve.

Exactly. Like I suggested, Gillis isn't going to move Schneider unless its for a deal he couldn't possibly refuse. I do believe Schneider will be moved, either via trade in the off-season, or allowed to walk after signing an offer sheet (offer pending return/cap hit of course).

Having said that, I do believe there is an outside chance Cory signs here long-term next summer and Luongo is dealt. This depending on how Luongo plays this year and more specifically, this post-season. Should Luongo falter hard, I could realistically see management and Luongo mutually parting ways.
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Re: GDT: Nov 23: Canucks @ Colorado - 6:30pm - SPac

Postby Potatoe1 » Fri Nov 25, 2011 11:45 am

dbr wrote:
Anyway, while it would've been cool to get a lottery pick I think really highly of Schneider and that Avs team could've potentially been good enough to just miss the playoffs.. even seeing them play now I think a player like Schneider would move their pick into the 5-10 range of the draft. At that position I'd probably be happier trading Schneider for a player a little further along his developmental curve.


If we were able to get the Av's pick we could then have moved some combination of our own picks / prospects for a player that can bring immediate help.

I would trade our whole draft for a good shot at a lottery pick.

The problem with being a top team year after year is that it's very difficult to bring in top end prospects which makes the eventual replacement of your best players very challenging.
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Re: GDT: Nov 23: Canucks @ Colorado - 6:30pm - SPac

Postby dbr » Fri Nov 25, 2011 12:03 pm

I would do the same if I had thought in the offseason that the Avs were going to be this bad.

I think they would be better with Schneider than with Varlamov but I also thought they might be good enough to get out of the top ten of the draft (obviously I was wrong on that count - Schneider probably wouldn't have been enough to make the difference).

I'd happily deal Schneider for a top five pick but for a pick that might end up in the middle of the first round the benefit seems much less clear (although I don't know what the prevailing view is about the quality of this particular draft).
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Re: GDT: Nov 23: Canucks @ Colorado - 6:30pm - SPac

Postby Benjo » Fri Nov 25, 2011 2:11 pm

It is said to be a very strong draft class with Yakupov getting compared to Bure.
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