GDT: Nov 16: Blah Caulks @ Us - 7pm - SPac

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Re: GDT: Nov 16: Blah Caulks @ Us - 7pm - SPac

Postby KeyserSoze » Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:32 am

benivolent wrote:It's our 5-on-5 defense that's in the crapper.

This.

The Canucks are sitting 23rd overall in 5 on 5 for/against at a pretty pathetic 0.82

(Last year they finished 2nd best in the league with a rating of 1.32)
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Re: GDT: Nov 16: Blah Caulks @ Us - 7pm - SPac

Postby benivolent » Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:34 am

KeyserSoze wrote:
benivolent wrote:It's our 5-on-5 defense that's in the crapper.

This.

The Canucks are sitting 23rd overall in 5 on 5 for/against at a pretty pathetic 0.82

(Last year they finished 2nd best in the league with a rating of 1.32)


Exactly. Which is odd because I seem to recall that AV is actually a pretty decent defensive system coach, yes?
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Re: GDT: Nov 16: Blah Caulks @ Us - 7pm - SPac

Postby Listercat » Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:54 pm

Exactly !! 5-5 they have been awful and it runs from the top to the bottom of the lineup.
ES this year Last Year

Daniel Sedin: 2 23
Henrik Sedin 3 11
Alex Burrows 3 25
Ryan Kesler 0 26
Chris Higgins 5 1
Jannick Hansen 5 9
Cody Hodgson 3
Max Lapierre 3 1
David Booth 1 (en)
Manny Malhotra 0 8
Alex Edler 1 3
Kevin Bieksa 0 5
Dan Hamhuis 1 4
Aaron Rome 2 1

Christian Erhoff 8 M Samuelson 13
M Raymond 13


Not only have they not scored they are being out scored badly. When the top 2 lines are not scoring 5-5 and then bottom 2 and especially Malhotra's line are being scored on in buckets they arre not going to win.
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Re: GDT: Nov 16: Blah Caulks @ Us - 7pm - SPac

Postby Potatoe1 » Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:16 pm

KeyserSoze wrote:
benivolent wrote:It's our 5-on-5 defense that's in the crapper.

This.

The Canucks are sitting 23rd overall in 5 on 5 for/against at a pretty pathetic 0.82

(Last year they finished 2nd best in the league with a rating of 1.32)


Some of this is can be explained by their soft coverage so far this year but a lot of it comes down to goal tending.

Schneider and Luongo have a combined save percentage of .899 this year while last year they were a combined .928. That is the difference between giving up 4 goals every 40 shots against this year while last year it was 3 goals every 40 shots.

Some of that is because of giving up odd man rushes like we did last night, but a lot of it is just bad goal tending.

As far as scoring is concerned almost all of the drop can be explained by Ryan Kesler who lit it up at even strength for the first half of last season.
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Re: GDT: Nov 16: Blah Caulks @ Us - 7pm - SPac

Postby griz » Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:23 pm

The Officiating SUCKED BALLS but only contributed to the loss rather than being the sole reason for it. Unfortunately there were other reasons for the loss as well. However, that penalty with 2 seconds to go ... should follow over to the next game the Hawks play. I would support that as a rule change.

All you Ballard haters (I'm neutral) got your wish. Not the injury of course but rather a Ballard-free Blueline.

Topper, you were just starting to come around with Cody. I'm sure you'll say Cody was just starting to come around. He he. In any case, I think we can expect a learning curve with him no? A great investment given time IMO.

Raymond is getting closer. Oh wait, that upsets a bunch of you too doesn't it? Regardless it gives the team more options. His speed kills, I do appreciate that about him. I know he can't hit the broadside of a barn though and is shall we say she's not much of a man's man? :)
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Re: GDT: Nov 16: Blah Caulks @ Us - 7pm - SPac

Postby Larry Goodenough » Thu Nov 17, 2011 5:53 pm

Potatoe1 wrote:
KeyserSoze wrote:
benivolent wrote:It's our 5-on-5 defense that's in the crapper.

This.

The Canucks are sitting 23rd overall in 5 on 5 for/against at a pretty pathetic 0.82

(Last year they finished 2nd best in the league with a rating of 1.32)


Some of this is can be explained by their soft coverage so far this year but a lot of it comes down to goal tending.

Schneider and Luongo have a combined save percentage of .899 this year while last year they were a combined .928. That is the difference between giving up 4 goals every 40 shots against this year while last year it was 3 goals every 40 shots.

Some of that is because of giving up odd man rushes like we did last night, but a lot of it is just bad goal tending.

As far as scoring is concerned almost all of the drop can be explained by Ryan Kesler who lit it up at even strength for the first half of last season.



Alot of their defensive problems also come down to their top 2 defensive centres have been out or no where near 100%
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Re: GDT: Nov 16: Blah Caulks @ Us - 7pm - SPac

Postby coco_canuck » Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:42 pm

RE: Hodgson.

I think overall, he's been better than I expected.

As many young players do, he often struggles against good teams. Cody's strengths' play well when he's up against lesser opponents, but his weaknesses are more exposed when plays against better and faster players.

I'm not trying to make some sort of revelation.

He's a young player who is still developing, but he has a long way to go if he's going to be effective in a top 6 role come April.
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Re: GDT: Nov 16: Blah Caulks @ Us - 7pm - SPac

Postby Potatoe1 » Fri Nov 18, 2011 5:09 pm

coco_canuck wrote:RE: Hodgson.

As many young players do, he often struggles against good teams. Cody's strengths' play well when he's up against lesser opponents, but his weaknesses are more exposed when plays against better and faster players.


He has 3 points in 4 career games against Chicago.

From a PPG stand point he is better against them then the majority of other teams.

Personally I think he was just a bit too comfortable after getting the first star in the previous game. I personally agreed with AV benching him as rookies need to bring their A game pretty much ever night and he did not bring it for the first period of that game.

He was however a lot better after the demotion and was correctly moved back up the line up.

And I agree he has a ways to go before becoming a legit top6 forward. That said he has made huge strides and there is no question he has the potential to be the 5th best forward on this team. If that happens this year or ever, is is obviously a big unknown, but given how he has played we are far better off giving him the chance versus a player we know for a fact will never get there.
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Re: GDT: Nov 16: Blah Caulks @ Us - 7pm - SPac

Postby coco_canuck » Fri Nov 18, 2011 5:24 pm

Potatoe1 wrote:Personally I think he was just a bit too comfortable after getting the first star in the previous game. I personally agreed with AV benching him as rookies need to bring their A game pretty much ever night and he did not bring it for the first period of that game.


RD won't be happy about Tony's latest shot at AV saying:

"You might start thinking a trade with Phoenix for Kyle Turris at this point, but young players and Vigneault don’t seem to mesh well, if Hodgson and Chris Tanev are any indication."

http://www.theprovince.com/sports/Canuc ... z1e6cDXndb


I have no problem with the way AV treats rookies or young players. He's been fine with Edler, Burrows, Kesler, Hansen, and Raymond.

Cody has been getting over 13 minutes of ice-time per game and has a regular spot on the 2nd unit power play.

Tanev had a rough start to the year and management didn't want to lose Sulzer or Ebbett on waivers at the time and sent Tanev down instead.

Potatoe1 wrote:And I agree he has a ways to go before becoming a legit top6 forward. That said he has made huge strides and there is no question he has the potential to be the 5th best forward on this team. If that happens this year or ever, is is obviously a big unknown, but given how he has played we are far better off giving him the chance versus a player we know for a fact will never get there


It's almost always too early to write off players in their early 20's. Especially rookies.

I think he's going to have a NHL career, it's a matter of how good and how long it will be.

He could turn out to be a legit top 6 forwards or he could end up like Kyle Wellwood.

Either way, he's an asset with some potential and some upside. It's a matter of him being developed here or on another team if the right deal comes along.
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Re: GDT: Nov 16: Blah Caulks @ Us - 7pm - SPac

Postby Potatoe1 » Fri Nov 18, 2011 5:37 pm

coco_canuck wrote:
I have no problem with the way AV treats rookies or young players. He's been fine with Edler, Burrows, Kesler, Hansen, and Raymond.

Cody has been getting over 13 minutes of ice-time per game and has a regular spot on the 2nd unit power play.


I agree completely.

Guys like Hodgson are coming from leagues where they played hard in 2/3rd of their games and on 2/3rd of their shifts and still were the best players in their league.

It is so hard to make the NHL and especially on a good team, that they simply need to play their best almost ever night. Rookies should be demoted the second there is a drop in effort and if they respond correctly they should be moved back up.

Tony G is 100% wrong on this, AV was absolutely correct in how he handled things. Sure the 3rd line was a wreck with Weise in that spot but there is a bigger picture.

He could turn out to be a legit top 6 forwards or he could end up like Kyle Wellwood.


Or he could end up like like like Joe Pavelski who from a style stand point is the NHL player I think most similar to Cody. Coincidentally Pavalski had a 40 point rookie reason which is exactly Codys current trend (though Joe was a few years older and didn't sit on his ass with a back injury for a year).

Either way, he's an asset with some potential and some upside. It's a matter of him being developed here or on another team if the right deal comes along.



At this point I would think there is almost no chance Gillis is willing to trade Hodgson. That is unless it is a "thank you for the Stanley cup", type of deal.
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Re: GDT: Nov 16: Blah Caulks @ Us - 7pm - SPac

Postby Island Nucklehead » Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:10 pm

Potatoe1 wrote:
At this point I would think there is almost no chance Gillis is willing to trade Hodgson. That is unless it is a "thank you for the Stanley cup", type of deal.


Pretty much. Exactly what are people expecting out of Cody Hodgson? There's been nights when he's our best player up front, no small task for a team of this depth and veteran caliber.

coco_canuck wrote:He's a young player who is still developing


Exactly.

but he has a long way to go if he's going to be effective in a top 6 role come April.


If this team is COUNTING on Hodgson to be one of our top 6 forwards come playoff time we might be in trouble... but he's exactly the kind of young (re:cheap) depth that is going to be counted on to play above his contract come playoff time.
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Re: GDT: Nov 16: Blah Caulks @ Us - 7pm - SPac

Postby Rumsfeld » Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:37 pm

Potatoe1 wrote:I agree completely.


Well done.


I agree.


Agreed.


Imagine that.

Image
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Re: GDT: Nov 16: Blah Caulks @ Us - 7pm - SPac

Postby Potatoe1 » Fri Nov 18, 2011 8:27 pm

Rumsfeld wrote:
Potatoe1 wrote:I agree completely.


Well done.


I agree.


Agreed.


Imagine that.

Image




:lol:
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Re: GDT: Nov 16: Blah Caulks @ Us - 7pm - SPac

Postby rats19 » Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:17 pm

Then the flames kick their ass ....back to the lovefest
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Re: GDT: Nov 16: Blah Caulks @ Us - 7pm - SPac

Postby dhabums » Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:11 pm

rats19 wrote:Then the flames kick their ass ....back to the lovefest


We certainly had the chances to put 2-3 in vs the Hawks before the score got bad. Overpassing or undershooting, take your choice.
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