GDT: Nov 13: Grabner @ Ballard 6:00 SPac

This forum is to discuss game day happenings. New threads will be posted for each game.

Moderator: Referees

Re: GDT: Nov 13: Grabner @ Ballard 6:00 SPac

Postby Jovocop » Tue Nov 15, 2011 4:35 pm

Potatoe1 wrote:
Meds wrote:
As for playing favorites I totally agree. Manny playing on the 3rd line over Lappy was a total joke.


Or Rome and Burrows on the point over Ballard...
User avatar
Jovocop
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 1766
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:18 pm

Re: GDT: Nov 13: Grabner @ Ballard 6:00 SPac

Postby Uncle dans leg » Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:04 pm

Meds wrote:
Uncle dans leg wrote:I dont think MayRay is as bad as you're making him out to be here. Maybe he's no power forward but he was definitely a key part of last years presidents trophy winner as well as runner up to the Stanley Cup.


By "key part", do you mean with his 39 regular season points and his 8 playoff points?

And I would never say that Raymond has a "wicked shot". His slapshot is fairly hard, but not spectacularly so, and always bullseyeing the goalie's logo. His wrist shot is, well we've never really seen it.....

I agree with Pot about him fitting in the top 9, and also that it is a plus and not a minus. I'm fine with that, so long as AV makes him earn his minutes, if he's outplaying Booth or Higgins, slot him in, if he's not, sit him. That goes for any player, Vigneault's love affair with players like Malhotra, Rome, and Luongo, is the thing that aggravates me the most, and I suppose it is fair to say that I take it out on the player who is slumping rather than the coach who is more concerned about his boy than about the win.

He had 18 points in his first 25 games then broke his thumb. He obviously struggled to regain his form after that but he was on pace before the injury to match his totals of his "breakout" year when he potted 25 goals. I do think he has a good shot when healthy. You don't pop 25 by hitting only crests in the NHL. He was injured and struggled upon his return I agree but to write him off based on last years' point production alone is a bit premature. His speed causes quite a few turnovers down low and our 41 goal scoring Selke trophy winner was the benefactor on many of these digs. I would bet Kesler is quietly eager for his return.
nobody forks with...the jesus
User avatar
Uncle dans leg
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 1991
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:19 pm
Location: Lethbridge AB

Re: GDT: Nov 13: Grabner @ Ballard 6:00 SPac

Postby dhabums » Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:45 pm

Did anyone catch Moulson's comment that Grabner could be a 70 GOAL scorer? I assume he meant in a season. That must have sent the MAgic40 club into a tizzy.
User avatar
dhabums
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 1291
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 7:55 pm

Re: GDT: Nov 13: Grabner @ Ballard 6:00 SPac

Postby Meds » Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:11 am

Uncle dans leg wrote:
Meds wrote:
Uncle dans leg wrote:I dont think MayRay is as bad as you're making him out to be here. Maybe he's no power forward but he was definitely a key part of last years presidents trophy winner as well as runner up to the Stanley Cup.


By "key part", do you mean with his 39 regular season points and his 8 playoff points?

And I would never say that Raymond has a "wicked shot". His slapshot is fairly hard, but not spectacularly so, and always bullseyeing the goalie's logo. His wrist shot is, well we've never really seen it.....

I agree with Pot about him fitting in the top 9, and also that it is a plus and not a minus. I'm fine with that, so long as AV makes him earn his minutes, if he's outplaying Booth or Higgins, slot him in, if he's not, sit him. That goes for any player, Vigneault's love affair with players like Malhotra, Rome, and Luongo, is the thing that aggravates me the most, and I suppose it is fair to say that I take it out on the player who is slumping rather than the coach who is more concerned about his boy than about the win.

He had 18 points in his first 25 games then broke his thumb. He obviously struggled to regain his form after that but he was on pace before the injury to match his totals of his "breakout" year when he potted 25 goals. I do think he has a good shot when healthy. You don't pop 25 by hitting only crests in the NHL. He was injured and struggled upon his return I agree but to write him off based on last years' point production alone is a bit premature. His speed causes quite a few turnovers down low and our 41 goal scoring Selke trophy winner was the benefactor on many of these digs. I would bet Kesler is quietly eager for his return.


You need to watch some game tape. Of his 25 goals there were at least 15 that were garbage, or flukes that bounced off of him and fluttered over the goalie, and one that was a lob from the scrum at center ice that dropped behind Kiprusoff (oh that was beautiful to see, even more beautiful to watch Bountiful erupt).....

Could you fire me a link that shows his 18 points in the first 25 games last year? I don't recall that at all, and I was watching him last year because I anticipated a good season from him to follow up his breakout.....
User avatar
Meds
CC Legend
 
Posts: 3438
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:50 pm

Re: GDT: Nov 13: Grabner @ Ballard 6:00 SPac

Postby Per » Wed Nov 16, 2011 4:55 am

Meds wrote: Could you fire me a link that shows his 18 points in the first 25 games last year? I don't recall that at all, and I was watching him last year because I anticipated a good season from him to follow up his breakout.....

Substituting for the limb here; there's a nice little site on the interwebs called nhl.com that can show you this stuff.
There's really no rocket science to it. I'll give you a direct link to Raymond's game log so you just have to click it.

Here: http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=84 ... 1&view=log

OK, scroll down to the bottom, then count 25 games up (that'd be Dec 8), then add all the points from the bottom up till that date, and voilá - it's 18! :)

Don't know why he chose the 18 in 25 mention, since Raymond had a point in all three games right after that, which brought him to 21 in 28, which is an even better PPG average, but whatever.
User avatar
Per
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 1829
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:45 am

Re: GDT: Nov 13: Grabner @ Ballard 6:00 SPac

Postby Uncle dans leg » Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:04 am

Per wrote:
Meds wrote: Could you fire me a link that shows his 18 points in the first 25 games last year? I don't recall that at all, and I was watching him last year because I anticipated a good season from him to follow up his breakout.....

Substituting for the limb here; there's a nice little site on the interwebs called nhl.com that can show you this stuff.
There's really no rocket science to it. I'll give you a direct link to Raymond's game log so you just have to click it.

Here: http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=84 ... 1&view=log

OK, scroll down to the bottom, then count 25 games up (that'd be Dec 8), then add all the points from the bottom up till that date, and voilá - it's 18! :)

Don't know why he chose the 18 in 25 mention, since Raymond had a point in all three games right after that, which brought him to 21 in 28, which is an even better PPG average, but whatever.

He was injured Dec 11 then missed 10 games. Not sure if the next 3 were upon his return maybe... He also partially seperated his shoulder in march which wouldve contributed to his points woes but thanks for the look up Per...tack!
nobody forks with...the jesus
User avatar
Uncle dans leg
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 1991
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:19 pm
Location: Lethbridge AB

Re: GDT: Nov 13: Grabner @ Ballard 6:00 SPac

Postby Per » Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:40 am

Uncle dans leg wrote:He was injured Dec 11 then missed 10 games. Not sure if the next 3 were upon his return maybe... He also partially seperated his shoulder in march which wouldve contributed to his points woes but thanks for the look up Per...tack!

Ah... obviously... duh! :oops:

Yeah, the game right after Dec 8 says Jan 2. Guess they normally don't get that many days off for Xmas, eh? :lol:
User avatar
Per
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 1829
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:45 am

Re: GDT: Nov 13: Grabner @ Ballard 6:00 SPac

Postby Listercat » Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:45 am

Meds, the dump in goal against Kipper was in Dec of 2009 part of his "breakout" year production. Last time I looked so called garbage goals counted on the scoreboard the same as any other goal.
"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt "
Listercat
CC 2nd Team All-Star
 
Posts: 299
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:12 pm
Location: Not Bountiful

Re: GDT: Nov 13: Grabner @ Ballard 6:00 SPac

Postby Rayxor » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:17 am

Meds wrote:You need to watch some game tape. Of his 25 goals there were at least 15 that were garbage, or flukes that bounced off of him and fluttered over the goalie, and one that was a lob from the scrum at center ice that dropped behind Kiprusoff (oh that was beautiful to see, even more beautiful to watch Bountiful erupt).....

regardless of his numbers, his play last year was a step back from the previous year. My opinion, and I suspect that of many others here, is that if his play is a continuation of last year, there may be better options for the 2nd line and Raymond shouldn't be a lock in the top six unless he plays more like the Raymond of 2 years ago.

It's not like he couldn't thrive in a third line role on this team. a line of him, Silent G and Hansen (for example) would get its share of scoring opportunities. In fact, a smart playmaker like Hodgson might be better suited for Raymond who often had difficulty creating offensive opportunities when he carried the puck in himself.
User avatar
Rayxor
CC 2nd Team All-Star
 
Posts: 216
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:05 am

Re: GDT: Nov 13: Grabner @ Ballard 6:00 SPac

Postby tantalum » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:32 am

dhabums wrote:Did anyone catch Moulson's comment that Grabner could be a 70 GOAL scorer? I assume he meant in a season. That must have sent the MAgic40 club into a tizzy.


he would have to put forth an effort every shift and show up ready to play in October. Besides what was a good pass (a bit lucky but good), he was invisible against the canucks. He's been invisible numerous nights this year already. he's getting some points now since being moved up with Tavares, but was doing nothing on the second line before that.
User avatar
tantalum
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 1911
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 3:41 am
Location: Carl Junction, MO

Re: GDT: Nov 13: Grabner @ Ballard 6:00 SPac

Postby Uncle dans leg » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:47 am

Rayxor wrote:
Meds wrote:You need to watch some game tape. Of his 25 goals there were at least 15 that were garbage, or flukes that bounced off of him and fluttered over the goalie, and one that was a lob from the scrum at center ice that dropped behind Kiprusoff (oh that was beautiful to see, even more beautiful to watch Bountiful erupt).....

regardless of his numbers, his play last year was a step back from the previous year. My opinion, and I suspect that of many others here, is that if his play is a continuation of last year, there may be better options for the 2nd line and Raymond shouldn't be a lock in the top six unless he plays more like the Raymond of 2 years ago.

It's not like he couldn't thrive in a third line role on this team. a line of him, Silent G and Hansen (for example) would get its share of scoring opportunities. In fact, a smart playmaker like Hodgson might be better suited for Raymond who often had difficulty creating offensive opportunities when he carried the puck in himself.

This year will likely be a write off for Raymond considering the severity of the injury and all the time it'll take to get back into game shape. He won't spend much time on the top 2 lines.

He isn't a power forward and he will never bang and crash enough for most people but his asset is backing off the defence with speed and creating space for his line mates. If a big, rugged banging winger were in the line up I'm sure he would bump Raymond down. Higgins does pretty well in that slot along with Burr. At this point, those 2 are better options than MR.

Pairing him with CoHo would definitely be interesting. Who isn't excited with how well Cody has been playing the past 10 games? I'm impressed and suprised quite honestly.
nobody forks with...the jesus
User avatar
Uncle dans leg
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 1991
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:19 pm
Location: Lethbridge AB

Re: GDT: Nov 13: Grabner @ Ballard 6:00 SPac

Postby herb » Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:19 am

Uncle dans leg wrote:Pairing him with CoHo would definitely be interesting. Who isn't excited with how well Cody has been playing the past 10 games? I'm impressed and suprised quite honestly.


I am definitely excited. I had all but written Hodgson off as a future top 6 forward after the back injury and his dismal 2011 season (30 points in the AHL is not impressive no matter how you slice it). His somewhat effective play in the playoffs had encouraged me only slightly.

This year, he has not looked out of place on one of the better teams, and is putting up points to boot. How many productive 21 year olds are there in this league? Ten?
User avatar
herb
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 2240
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 3:17 pm
Location: Mars

Re: GDT: Nov 13: Grabner @ Ballard 6:00 SPac

Postby dbr » Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:55 am

You got me curious herb.

There are 70 players eligible for the 2008 or later drafts with more than 5 games under their belts this year, 45 forwards and 25 defensemen.

Of the 45 forwards, 18 have over ten games played, average over 10 minutes a game and are producing at at least a 0.5 point per game clip (Hodgson just meets this last requirement). Players on decent NHL teams include Stamkos, Seguin, Stepan, Colin Wilson and Luke Adam.

20 of the 25 defensemen have played more than 10 games averaging at least 15 minutes a game (with 13 of them averaging over 20 minutes). Players on decent NHL teams include Doughty, Hedman, John Carlson, Tyler Myers, Del Zotto and Nick Leddy.

(As an aside, boy did Chicago ever win that Leddy/Barker deal.)

As for Silent G's 2008 first round draft class, of the players taken ahead of him he certainly represents better value to his team than Filatov, and while both are more established in the league he is off to a better start this year than Josh Bailey and Mikael Boedker.

Players taken behind him and contributing now include Myers, Karlsson, Sbisa, Del Zotto, Eberle and Carlson are established players contributing this year and Boychuk, Tedenby, Ennis and Tikhonov have more career games but are off to worse starts than Hodgson this season.

It'll take awhile to know whether "this season" is an accurate measurement or whether players with longer NHL track records will catch and pass Cody again, but right now it looks like he is outperforming 3 of the 9 players taken ahead of him and 14 of 20 players taken behind him.
dbr
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 2553
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 5:37 pm

Re: GDT: Nov 13: Grabner @ Ballard 6:00 SPac

Postby KeyserSoze » Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:09 pm

dhabums wrote:Did anyone catch Moulson's comment that Grabner could be a 70 GOAL scorer? I assume he meant in a season.

lol

Players who have scored 70+ goals in a season:

Wayne Gretzky, Brett Hull, Mario Lemieux, Phil Esposito, Alexander Mogilny, Teemu Selanne, Jari Kurri, Bernie Nicholls......Michael Grabner, hell while we're at it we might as well add Matt Moulson, poster dhabums, and poster KeyserSoze to the list as well.

Anyone else want in?
User avatar
KeyserSoze
CC 2nd Team All-Star
 
Posts: 329
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:39 am

Re: GDT: Nov 13: Grabner @ Ballard 6:00 SPac

Postby tantalum » Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:14 pm

KeyserSoze wrote:
dhabums wrote:Anyone else want in?


I have 5 goals in my last 3 games. Unfortunately I only play 12 regular season games. 2 of those 5 are complete garbage goals ...my role is to plant my fat ass in front of the net and let the guys who can actually shoot take the shots. When i say garbage I mean garbage as those two just bounced off of me. The others were actually good goals...one right off the face off win (the best shot I've ever taken right to the top corner and it won't happen again) the other two were off rebounds on odd-man rushes.
User avatar
tantalum
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 1911
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 3:41 am
Location: Carl Junction, MO

PreviousNext

Return to Game Day Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Brick Tamland, Cornuck, Google Adsense [Bot], Hank, Hockey Widow, Overtime, Rayxor, TDA Rum and 3 guests