GDT: Oct 10 - Canucks @ Columbus - 4pm - SNET-P(HD) RADIO: 1

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Re: GDT: Oct 10 - Canucks @ Columbus - 4pm - SNET-P(HD) RADI

Postby BladesofSteel » Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:26 pm

Potatoe1 wrote:
KeyserSoze wrote:Pot, it doesn't really matter what happened in the finals or what media/people are saying about it...when Marc Methot takes a cheap shot run at your Captain like that there needs to be some consequences.


People are acting like the team just skated away.....

Watch the replay, after the hit there was a pretty lively scrum (given who was on the ice). Later in the game Burrows ran their goalie and apparently both Bieksa and Volpatti tried to fight Methot.

What exactly should they have done beyond that?

Henrik admitted he held himself responsible on the play, that he isn't quite up to speed yet and didn't see Methot coming. That once he gets there he will recognize plays like that and minimize the impact.

I kind of agree that Hank turned away from it and Methot had little time to let up. Could have been a helluva lot worse.

It should also be noted that the Canucks bread and butter last season was their offense, in particular, making teams pay when the Canucks had the man advantage. Vancouver was down 2-1 when that hit took place. One minute later Cody tied it up on the power play that was a result of Methot's boarding minor.

That hit on Henrik was the turning point in the game. The Canucks rallied and won, that's all that matters.
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Re: GDT: Oct 10 - Canucks @ Columbus - 4pm - SNET-P(HD) RADI

Postby Rumsfeld » Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:37 pm

BladesofSteel wrote:
Potatoe1 wrote:
KeyserSoze wrote:Pot, it doesn't really matter what happened in the finals or what media/people are saying about it...when Marc Methot takes a cheap shot run at your Captain like that there needs to be some consequences.


People are acting like the team just skated away.....

Watch the replay, after the hit there was a pretty lively scrum (given who was on the ice). Later in the game Burrows ran their goalie and apparently both Bieksa and Volpatti tried to fight Methot.

What exactly should they have done beyond that?


That hit on Henrik was the turning point in the game. The Canucks rallied and won, that's all that matters.


Vancouver was down 2-1 when that hit took place. One minute later Cody tied it up on the power play that was a result of Methot's boarding minor.


Nobody scored on that PP. Cody scored even strength well after the fact. The hit was in the first half of the second period and Hodgson's goal was early in the third.

I'd say that the turning point of the game was Schneider's penalty shot save and that the Henrik hit had little or nothing to do with the outcome...

And Henrik is just being Henrik when he gets all diplomatic and takes some responsibility for being vulnerable. That was a dirty shot to an elite player and should have been a five-minute penalty.
Last edited by Rumsfeld on Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: GDT: Oct 10 - Canucks @ Columbus - 4pm - SNET-P(HD) RADI

Postby KeyserSoze » Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:43 pm

Potatoe1 wrote:People are acting like the team just skated away.....

Watch the replay, after the hit there was a pretty lively scrum (given who was on the ice). Later in the game Burrows ran their goalie and apparently both Bieksa and Volpatti tried to fight Methot.

What exactly should they have done beyond that?

Burrows (likely accidently) backed into a goalie who was slightly out of his crease...I definately would not say he ran their goalie.

That's great that Bieksa and Volpatti both asked Methot to the dance, but as we saw Methot clearly and gracefully declined the invite.

I would have liked to see someone (anyone) put the puck in Methot's corner and attempt to put him through the boards. Or if for whatever reason that was not possible, let's see someone (again, anyone) target Jeff Carter with a hard hit (even if it is 2 seconds late) or nasty cross check to the arm and remind him why it happened.

If it was a clean hit it would have been a different story.

I am not talking about Bertuzzi-ing someone here...let's just make it clear give a hint that if someone wants to take a cheap shot from behind on one of our star players it will not be taken lightly.

And for the record I agree with you Pot and do not relate this and what happened in the SCF at all. You 100% take a punch to get a PP in the playoffs, and for the most part the same holds true for the regular season. The Methot hit (especially seeing as it was only penalized 2 mins) deserved more attention/reaction, and this is all I am saying.

BladesofSteel wrote:Henrik admitted he held himself responsible on the play, that he isn't quite up to speed yet and didn't see Methot coming.

He also referred to it as a cheap shot.
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Re: GDT: Oct 10 - Canucks @ Columbus - 4pm - SNET-P(HD) RADI

Postby dhabums » Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:04 pm

Larry Goodenough wrote:One more time, if that is the Canucks response, then as an opponent, I will slash, punch and hit a Sedin after the whistle every chance I get knowing it will draw a reaction and a penalty.

In today's NHL, few players fear retribution. If they do, it's tempered by the millions of dollars they will earn by being the type of player that runs the Sedins and then puts his team on the powerplay by drawing retribution.


Fighting majors do not result in a PP. I've heard and read today people claiming "it was a close game so nothing could be done". WTH does that even mean? This is where someone should make a pointless reference to the instigator penalty, as if it is relevant.
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Re: GDT: Oct 10 - Canucks @ Columbus - 4pm - SNET-P(HD) RADI

Postby Eddy Punch Clock » Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:07 pm

dhabums wrote:
Larry Goodenough wrote:One more time, if that is the Canucks response, then as an opponent, I will slash, punch and hit a Sedin after the whistle every chance I get knowing it will draw a reaction and a penalty.

In today's NHL, few players fear retribution. If they do, it's tempered by the millions of dollars they will earn by being the type of player that runs the Sedins and then puts his team on the powerplay by drawing retribution.


Fighting majors do not result in a PP. I've heard and read today people claiming "it was a close game so nothing could be done". WTH does that even mean? This is where someone should make a pointless reference to the instigator penalty, as if it is relevant.


I blame it all on the instigator rule.

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Re: GDT: Oct 10 - Canucks @ Columbus - 4pm - SNET-P(HD) RADI

Postby dhabums » Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:11 pm

BladesofSteel wrote: Vancouver was down 2-1 when that hit took place. One minute later Cody tied it up on the power play that was a result of Methot's boarding minor.

That hit on Henrik was the turning point in the game. The Canucks rallied and won, that's all that matters.


Am I misreading something? It was 1-1 when Methot hit 33.
Last edited by dhabums on Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: GDT: Oct 10 - Canucks @ Columbus - 4pm - SNET-P(HD) RADI

Postby Meds » Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:42 pm

KeyserSoze wrote:I would have liked to see someone (anyone) put the puck in Methot's corner and attempt to put him through the boards. Or if for whatever reason that was not possible, let's see someone (again, anyone) target Jeff Carter with a hard hit (even if it is 2 seconds late) or nasty cross check to the arm and remind him why it happened.

If it was a clean hit it would have been a different story.


I think this might be the only real way to get the results that most teams are looking for when it comes to protecting their elite players. How many times is a guy like Methot going to run the opponent's top player with a questionable/late/dirty hit if his whole team knows that Nash or Carter are going to pay for it? I don't think he would be very well liked in his own locker room if his play is forcing his team's stars to play with eyes in the back of their head.

If, every time a Bruin had taken liberties with Hank or Dank, we had responded by taking a run at Chara's knees, or Bergeron or Kreji a bit late along the boards, would we have seen a difference (not saying a Cup in Van necessarily, but a different look to the games, particularly in Boston)?

Hockey, all contact sports actually, are games dominated by the alpha dogs, it's a primal thing, if one team is constantly skating away or showing restraint, the aggressor is going to perceive that as weakness and press the attack. That is still the one difference between the team that Gillis has built and the Detroit team that has had so much success, the Red Wing's were never the physical aggressor, but they never backed down (Holmstrom excepted.....such a pussy). Detroit always responded by standing their ground, sure they may have gotten man handled and tossed around a bit by a bigger opponent, but they didn't just roll over and play dead. They made opponents regret taking stupid penalties, we did the same all last year.....right up to the point where we ran into the Bruin's. Then we let them have their way and they never had to pay for it, end of story.

Every time Henrik or Daniel take a hit and skate away with their tail tucked, someone had better step in and kick someone's ass on the other side of the ice. If the offending player puss's out the way Methot did, message is still sent, if the opponent continues to be a cowboy, then beat the piss out of him while he turtles or take it out on his victim's counterpart (ie. Carter or Nash for Sedin).
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Re: GDT: Oct 10 - Canucks @ Columbus - 4pm - SNET-P(HD) RADI

Postby Potatoe1 » Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:10 pm

Meds wrote:
Hockey, all contact sports actually, are games dominated by the alpha dogs, it's a primal thing, if one team is constantly skating away or showing restraint, the aggressor is going to perceive that as weakness and press the attack. That is still the one difference between the team that Gillis has built and the Detroit team that has had so much success, the Red Wing's were never the physical aggressor, but they never backed down (Holmstrom excepted.....such a pussy). Detroit always responded by standing their ground, sure they may have gotten man handled and tossed around a bit by a bigger opponent, but they didn't just roll over and play dead. They made opponents regret taking stupid penalties, we did the same all last year.....right up to the point where we ran into the Bruin's. Then we let them have their way and they never had to pay for it, end of story.



Where do people come up with this stuff...

So the wings are tough because they can score on the power play.

We are pussies because couldn't?

"Toughness" had absolutely noting to do with our terrible results on the power play in the final. Our power play sucked because Edler, Ehroff, Hank, Sammy and Kesler were all hurt. That's 5 of the 6 players most responsible for our first unit being the best in the league last season.

People just love to create falocys regarding the Wings because the fact they win year after year with virtually no one on their roster that can fight, fly's in the face of all the "toughness myth's" that fans and media perpetuate.

Hockey is dominated by "Alpha Dogs".. please... Hockey is dominated by skilled teams who can skate, check, and score. The better you can do those things the more success you will have. It really isn't that complicated.

Unfortunately that doesn't make good copy so the media like to run with other storey lines.
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Re: GDT: Oct 10 - Canucks @ Columbus - 4pm - SNET-P(HD) RADI

Postby dhabums » Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:35 pm

Potatoe1 wrote:
Meds wrote:
Hockey, all contact sports actually, are games dominated by the alpha dogs, it's a primal thing, if one team is constantly skating away or showing restraint, the aggressor is going to perceive that as weakness and press the attack. That is still the one difference between the team that Gillis has built and the Detroit team that has had so much success, the Red Wing's were never the physical aggressor, but they never backed down (Holmstrom excepted.....such a pussy). Detroit always responded by standing their ground, sure they may have gotten man handled and tossed around a bit by a bigger opponent, but they didn't just roll over and play dead. They made opponents regret taking stupid penalties, we did the same all last year.....right up to the point where we ran into the Bruin's. Then we let them have their way and they never had to pay for it, end of story.



Where do people come up with this stuff...

So the wings are tough because they can score on the power play.

We are pussies because couldn't?

"Toughness" had absolutely noting to do with our terrible results on the power play in the final. Our power play sucked because Edler, Ehroff, Hank, Sammy and Kesler were all hurt. That's 5 of the 6 players most responsible for our first unit being the best in the league last season.


I think you and I are reading Med's post very differently. You really need to work on your black and white solutions and accept the enormous grey area in the middle. We let the Bruins do as they pleased. I have no doubt that this fed their confidence throughout the series. You are free to disagree.
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Re: GDT: Oct 10 - Canucks @ Columbus - 4pm - SNET-P(HD) RADI

Postby rats19 » Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:48 pm

Watxh the burrows running the goaltender clip again..slowmo if you have to..mason came out about 6 inches at the last second and inesho...invited the play...instigated if you will...just sayin..
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Re: GDT: Oct 10 - Canucks @ Columbus - 4pm - SNET-P(HD) RADI

Postby Strangelove » Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:49 pm

KeyserSoze wrote:let's see someone (again, anyone) target Jeff Carter with a hard hit (even if it is 2 seconds late) or nasty cross check to the arm and remind him why it happened.

If it was a clean hit it would have been a different story.

I am not talking about Bertuzzi-ing someone here...let's just make it clear give a hint that if someone wants to take a cheap shot from behind on one of our star players it will not be taken lightly.

The Methot hit (especially seeing as it was only penalized 2 mins) deserved more attention/reaction, and this is all I am saying.


This is how I see it (Thomas not being targeted at some point in the STF is beyond rickdonkulous, but I digress...)

Not only did Methot get away with a vicious cheap-shot on our captain, but later showed one way to send a message. The impression was that Burrows had run BJ's goalie... so first chance Methot got he viciously cross-checked Burrows (in the back just after he scored). He didn't receive a penalty on the play and I'm sure AB is still feeling it today.

In the end Methot served 2 PIM total, put the hurt on two of our best forwards, sent a message, and skated away unscathed. Sure his team lost the game, but its not like folks are putting any blame on Methot. So as to the question of what are some of the methods effective in today's NHL:

Methinks Methot’s methods.

(for added fun try saying the previous sentence aloud three times quickly)
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Re: GDT: Oct 10 - Canucks @ Columbus - 4pm - SNET-P(HD) RADI

Postby Meds » Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:56 pm

Potatoe1 wrote:Where do people come up with this stuff...

So the wings are tough because they can score on the power play.

We are pussies because couldn't?

"Toughness" had absolutely noting to do with our terrible results on the power play in the final. Our power play sucked because Edler, Ehroff, Hank, Sammy and Kesler were all hurt. That's 5 of the 6 players most responsible for our first unit being the best in the league last season.

People just love to create falocys regarding the Wings because the fact they win year after year with virtually no one on their roster that can fight, fly's in the face of all the "toughness myth's" that fans and media perpetuate.

Hockey is dominated by "Alpha Dogs".. please... Hockey is dominated by skilled teams who can skate, check, and score. The better you can do those things the more success you will have. It really isn't that complicated.

Unfortunately that doesn't make good copy so the media like to run with other storey lines.


No, the Wing's are tough because when one of their players gets pounded the way Methot hit Hank, or the way the Bruin's roughed us up, the team rallies together and stands their ground. When Zetterberg or Datsyuk are getting bullied, they don't just skate away, they fire back a bit, or a teammate comes in and stands with them. Against Boston, and actually all the way through the playoffs, we often saw the Sedins skating away and saying nothing, taking their licks and retreating, Kesler and Burrows did the same quite often, most of our team outside of Bieksa were quick to walk away and try and take the high road and make the opponent pay on the PP. It's AV's idea and they were following their marching orders. It had nothing to do with the PP results, it was about standing up for yourself and your team. Go re-read the part of my post that you quoted Pot and then re-write your response.....if you don't like the bit about alpha's, oh well, that's up to you, but if you don't think it plays a role then you need to re-watch some games. There has not been a Stanley Cup winning team in recent history that cowered away from the scrums as much as the Canuck's did this past year.....

2011, Boston - goon squad with 3 talented players.
2010, Chicago - a bench full of aggitators and team leaders that were willing to mix it up.
*2009, Pittsburgh - nobody backed down, never afraid to scrum it up.
*2008, Detroit - skill and team effort, also never backed down.
2007, Anaheim - Carlyle's bullies, got away with murder the entire playoffs, cheap shots, and full of assholes.
2006, Carolina - more team toughness, look at the leaders, Brind'Amour and Staal.
2004, Tampa Bay - they faced a grinder squad in Calgary, and were gifted the Cup by the league after Gelinas "no goal" in game 6.....but they weren't afraid and they never skated away from a fight unless they were winning and the game was over.
2003, New Jersey - Scott Stevens anyone?

I think that about makes my point.
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Re: GDT: Oct 10 - Canucks @ Columbus - 4pm - SNET-P(HD) RADI

Postby dhabums » Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:58 pm

Strangelove wrote:Not only did Methot get away with a vicious cheap-shot on our captain, but later showed one way to send a message. The impression was that Burrows had run BJ's goalie... so first chance Methot got he viciously cross-checked Burrows (in the back just after he scored). He didn't receive a penalty on the play and I'm sure AB is still feeling it today.


But we asked Methot to fight, so it's all good.

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Re: GDT: Oct 10 - Canucks @ Columbus - 4pm - SNET-P(HD) RADI

Postby Potatoe1 » Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:59 pm

dhabums wrote:You really need to work on your black and white solutions and accept the enormous grey area in the middle.



Thanks for the advice, hopefully one day I can achieve your level of hockey posting :D
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Re: GDT: Oct 10 - Canucks @ Columbus - 4pm - SNET-P(HD) RADI

Postby dhabums » Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:00 pm

rats19 wrote:Watxh the burrows running the goaltender clip again..slowmo if you have to..mason came out about 6 inches at the last second and inesho...invited the play...instigated if you will...just sayin..


I hope nobody seriously thinks Burrows ran Mason, he fell over him skating backwards.
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